Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Jezpeza said:
I do find it funny how this thread is bumped after every bad result - the old narrative was it used to be all Oles fault. He wasnt getting it right, we should have been challenging for the league. Now its all the players fault or Oles fault for buying them. complete change of narrative to keep looking back: These players had looked very good for long periods under Ole. Theres some shocking form at the moment from many of them but the toxic stuff is media guff. its not an Ole in post either - it was his time to go, i just dont think many want to concede that we have appointed a bit of a dud interim now as well
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The narrative used to be Ole was restoring the Utd way, he’d leave us in a wonderful position even he didn’t win trophies, he was a great squad builder, great at clearing deadwood, we were only a DM away, what happened to all that?.

It’s harsh to call Rangnick a dud, he’s done ok, not great we can all admit but whoever moved us away from Ole and Jose’s tactics on and off the ball was going to find it tough going. Ole left at least as bad a mess as anyone other post SAF manager, there’s no quick fix here.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Sorry, my mistake. Park the bus and relly on individual moments in attack is some kind of coaching.
Truth is that Solskjaer reign ruined us beyond of repair. Our own Ali Dia...
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And the opposition teams were so stupid to leave all the space behind their lines that we ended up with 2nd most goals in the league? And individual brilliance so often that the team ended up beating better sides than us? And if he did leave these many players who can produce individual moments, then is it fair to say he left a top side behind, and a decent coach here can just coach them and make us PL and CL champions?
 
anant said:
And the opposition teams were so stupid to leave all the space behind their lines that we ended up with 2nd most goals in the league? And individual brilliance so often that the team ended up beating better sides than us? And if he did leave these many players who can produce individual moments, then is it fair to say he left a top side behind, and a decent coach here can just coach them and make us PL and CL champions?
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Pick any manager from Division 1 or 2 and he will do same job as Failed Cardiff manager did.
You can spin it as much as you want but he was disaster for us and not just that he wasted 3 years and 400 mil euros, he left us in a mess for which we will need to clean up.

But hey, he has brought good mood, right?
 
PeteManic said:
If he had only won the Europa League he would still be the manager.
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If only we had another manager on that day, we would have won the Europa League.

And before you say that we only lost on penalties: we had a better starting eleven and bench than Villareal that day (at least on paper). Yet they looked better coached and they actually made the right substitutions. Whereas Ole didn’t make his subs until very late in the game and preferred to wait for penalties instead of trying to win the game in extra time.
 
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Andycoleno9 said:
Pick any manager from Division 1 or 2 and he will do same job as Failed Cardiff manager did.
You can spin it as much as you want but he was disaster for us and not just that he wasted 3 years and 400 mil euros, he left us in a mess for which we will need to clean up.

But hey, he has brought good mood, right?
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Chris Wilder relegated Sheffield last year. Let’s give him half a billion pounds to rebuild and manage the Manchester United squad. That’s what we did with Ole.
 
What I would say is that when most teams change managers you don't tend to see something as basic an effective pressing system (standard for top level teams for the last decade) being framed as some new innovation they're going to have to learn and adapt to.

The degree to which we were behind the best teams in Europe in terms of the way we were trying to play was pretty remarkable.
 
DSG said:
That approach worked better than RR’s, statistically at least.
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Yes, getting beaten by Watford 4-1 is such a good statistics. I feel like people already forgot how horrible we were under Ole this season, if you want to compare Ole to Rangnick statistically, then you should only use this season as barometer.

We would have been closer to relegation zone with Ole still in charge
 
lawliet354 said:
Yes, getting beaten by Watford 4-1 is such a good statistics. I feel like people already forgot how horrible we were under Ole this season, if you want to compare Ole to Rangnick statistically, then you should only use this season as barometer.

We would have been closer to relegation zone with Ole still in charge
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No one is arguing that Ole shouldn’t have been sacked. We are saying that Ralf’s been underwhelming and WORSE than Ole’s full record. Ole should have been sacked after the Liverpool match.

If you are choosing to only look at Ole this season and Ralf this season, then, yeah, Ralf’s been better. But to what end? 6th? No, the bare minimum is top 4 and that looks to be in great danger.
 
DSG said:
Why do you think underperforming teams suddenly become world beaters with a change of coach? Zidane with Madrid, Tuchel with Chelsea…?

There is a reality where Ole wasn’t good enough to continue as our manager AND Ralf isn’t good enough either. That is clearly a possibility.
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It's not a possibility. It's real. The only difference is RR knows how to structure a club. He is not going to produce miracles with the current players he has. He is not going to make McFred a world class midfield players. He is not going to make Maguire a lot faster. His best is try to play the game with a structure. It's obvious he is only here until the end of the season as he was not allowed to bring in any new players.
 
Ralph1386 said:
If only we had another manager on that day, we would have won the Europa League.

And before you say that we only lost on penalties: we had a better starting eleven and bench than Villareal that day (at least on paper). Yet they looked better coached and they actually made the right substitutions. Whereas Ole didn’t make his subs until very late in the game and preferred to wait for penalties instead of trying to win the game in extra time.
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He should have gone after the Sevilla debacle.
 
Foxbatt said:
It's not a possibility. It's real. The only difference is RR knows how to structure a club. He is not going to produce miracles with the current players he has. He is not going to make McFred a world class midfield players. He is not going to make Maguire a lot faster. His best is try to play the game with a structure. It's obvious he is only here until the end of the season as he was not allowed to bring in any new players.
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So, let me get this straight….

Ralf was not brought here to get top 4. Feck off 80m.
He was brought here to structure a club.
With a manager we don’t have yet.
And a consultant role, not DoF
oh, and right, we have exhibited a lot of structure on the pitch during his tenure…?
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Ole was fecking awful as a coach and tactically clueless. Championship manager 6 at the back try to nick a win on the counter, I hope I never see that horrible football again ever in my life. 3 trophyless years, 400m spent.
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At least right now our players looked like they have played with each other. Under Ole they looked like drunkards who showed up for the first time together in a sunday league match. Horrible football under him
 
Jackal981 said:
At least right now our players looked like they have played with each other. Under Ole they looked like drunkards who showed up for the first time together in a sunday league match. Horrible football under him
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It was a very bad result last night, but the football we played was 100 times better than under Ole. Our back line was at the half way line for most of the match and we never seemed in danger and were in completw control played some very nice football specialy in the first half.
 
Not having a go at Ole but the last few months has shown the perceived "progress" we've made under his time here was bullshit.
 
DSG said:
So, let me get this straight….

Ralf was not brought here to get top 4. Feck off 80m.
He was brought here to structure a club.
With a manager we don’t have yet.
And a consultant role, not DoF
oh, and right, we have exhibited a lot of structure on the pitch during his tenure…?
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He has no idea what he's talking about tbf, we still don't know how much of an influence he has or will have in the background. He was not brought in to rebuild anything, he is an interim and probably given some objectives like making top 4. If he does poorly he may not even get the consultancy job after.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
It was a very bad result last night, but the football we played was 100 times better than under Ole. Our back line was at the half way line for most of the match and we never seemed in danger and were in completw control played some very nice football specialy in the first half.
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Agree 100%. We really need a proper ST and CDM next season.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
It was a very bad result last night, but the football we played was 100 times better than under Ole. Our back line was at the half way line for most of the match and we never seemed in danger and were in completw control played some very nice football specialy in the first half.
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Agree. Bad result but good performance. Hopefully we start getting good results and good performances. It could be too late for this season but we could have something to build from next year.
 
Judas said:
Like who though?
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Im not sure it's worth saying specifically who as it'll only be met with 'oh but he's shit anyway' responses

As for making my mind up on RR yeah I have but I'll happily change it if he turns it around
 
mu4c_20le said:
He has no idea what he's talking about tbf, we still don't know how much of an influence he has or will have in the background. He was not brought in to rebuild anything, he is an interim and probably given some objectives like making top 4. If he does poorly he may not even get the consultancy job after.
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The more I look at this situation, the more I feel the lion’s share of the blame falls at the feet of the Glazers specifically and the board in general.

The way Ole was handled after the Liverpool loss was poor; he should have been sacked at that point. Instead, we half assed it, we were tentative and now top 4 is going to be really difficult to achieve. This lack of leadership has been an issue since SAF retired and “decision by general consensus” isn’t how you run a business.
 
Any actual news on his future. Lots of people going back & forth over who’s doing/did worse but is OgS looking like he’ll be back in a dugout anywhere soon?
 
UnofficialDevil said:
It was a very bad result last night, but the football we played was 100 times better than under Ole. Our back line was at the half way line for most of the match and we never seemed in danger and were in completw control played some very nice football specialy in the first half.
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That's not true. We had prolonged spells under Ole where we played better than we did at weekend. It was better football than the very worst performances under Ole sure but that's hardly a fair comparison.

I really like Rangnick but it's not true that he's suddenly producing a level of football we didn't see under Ole. After lockdown we looked genuinely excellent under Ole. His spell when he first arrived was also better than Rangnick's start.

Not a fan of characterising Ole's whole time here to just what happened this season.

He had periods where it was starting to come together nicely but for any manager you have to keep making good decisions or there's the chance you can dismantle any progress you've made. Unfortunately that happened to Ole.
 
mu4c_20le said:
He has no idea what he's talking about tbf, we still don't know how much of an influence he has or will have in the background. He was not brought in to rebuild anything, he is an interim and probably given some objectives like making top 4. If he does poorly he may not even get the consultancy job after.
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The club have been clear from the start on what Ralfs role would be at the club regardless if we get top 4 or not. The only thing that would change would be if Ralf suddenly does a Tutchel and wins the CL or gets comfortable top 4 playing good football but as this isn't likely he was always going to be moved upstairs.

You say he wasn't brought in to rebuild anything so why exactly was he brought in? He has experience above and beyond on building clubs. It's his strong suit so why would the club not use this experience? At long last we seem to be putting a structure in place to take us into the 21st century and Ralf will be part of that structure. It's not that hard to understand the reason Ralf was primarily brought in and that reason wasn't to win us titles.
 
Marwood said:
That's not true. We had prolonged spells under Ole where we played better than we did at weekend. It was better football than the very worst performances under Ole sure but that's hardly a fair comparison.

I really like Rangnick but it's not true that he's suddenly producing a level of football we didn't see under Ole. After lockdown we looked genuinely excellent under Ole. His spell when he first arrived was also better than Rangnick's start.

Not a fan of characterising Ole's whole time here to just what happened this season.

He had periods where it was starting to come together nicely but for any manager you have to keep making good decisions or there's the chance you can dismantle any progress you've made. Unfortunately that happened to Ole.
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I agree with you, but unfortunately people are going to remember what they want to
 
Bilbo said:
I agree with you, but unfortunately people are going to remember what they want to
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People will remember what they want and forget about a lot as well, the supposed progress, cultural reboot and leaving squad in a great place etc etc.

Ole tried, he stayed too long, no trophies but two top four finishes sadly and mostly importantly though he (along with Woodward and others) left a huge mess.
 
Roboc7 said:
People will remember what they want and forget about a lot as well, the supposed progress, cultural reboot and leaving squad in a great place etc etc.

Ole tried, he stayed too long, no trophies but two top four finishes sadly and mostly importantly though he (along with Woodward and others) left a huge mess.
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Ole hasn't left a huge mess. He neglected the CM positions for sure but that's two players the next manager has to find. It's not a massive task.

The other problems we have shouldn't necessarily be put down to Ole or whoever the manager is. Rashford, Shaw and Maguire, their performances are on them. Nobody who watched us last season would have predicted such a fall from three players who should be the bedrock of our team. Greenwood needs no explaining.

Now obviously if those three keep underperforming and the manager keeps persisting with them, then you could blame the manager.
 
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Marwood said:
Ole hasn't left a huge mess. He neglected the CM positions for sure but that's two players the next manager has to find. It's not a massive task.

The other problems we have shouldn't necessarily be put down to Ole or whoever the manager is. Rashford, Shaw and Maguire, their performances are on them. Nobody who watched us last season would have predicted such a fall from three players who should be the bedrock of our team. Greenwood needs no explaining.

Now obviously if those three keep underperforming and the manager keeps persisting with them, then you could blame the manager.
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You can see the thinking there. We finished last season a decent team. Relatively consistent and hard to beat. Outstanding football? Not often enough, for sure, but we'd briefly flirted with a title challenge and were never a doubt for top 4, or even 2nd place really. Not too shabby, though the Europa final loss was a setback.

What do we do now? Obviously we sign Sancho. That had been too long a story not to see it through, and besides why wouldn't we sign him? We got him for a great price. Varane was also an outstanding signing. Great value. I'm not going to go into the Ronaldo thing because we'll never know the reasons for that deal. Who wanted him etc. That aside though, I think Ole probably thought 'I'd like a midfielder or two, but we can't get the ones I really want and we've added quality players to an already decent side. We'll have enough this season and I'll finish my team next summer. Maybe even be able to bag Haaland too'. That makes sense to me.

Obviously things then went badly wrong this season and he had to go, no question.
 
Marwood said:
Ole hasn't left a huge mess. He neglected the CM positions for sure but that's two players the next manager has to find. It's not a massive task.

The other problems we have shouldn't necessarily be put down to Ole or whoever the manager is. Rashford, Shaw and Maguire, their performances are on them. Nobody who watched us last season would have predicted such a fall from three players who should be the bedrock of our team. Greenwood needs no explaining.

Now obviously if those three keep underperforming and the manager keeps persisting with them, then you could blame the manager.
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I think it’s well beyond point of there being any argument Ole didn’t leave behind a mess and that midfield is the only issue.

It’s stranger how many things people seem to absolve Ole of. Performance level of players, nothing to do with Ole, transfers nothing to do with Ole, Ronaldo not Ole’s signing etc etc. All things they’d have praised him for not so long ago. How can you think next manager only needs two players if he can’t rely on or impact performance of number of other players?. What you are saying is totally contradictory.

Plenty of people did predict we’d regress this season, it was clear last season flattered us but everyone got all giddy about finishing above Liverpool. Sadly they saw last season as a disaster and have since thumped us 5-0 at home and won a trophy. We thought it was progress summed up by our manager getting the sack and listing it as his best achievement which shows why both clubs are where they are.

Greenwood no one could have predicted what would happen but his performances stagnated, his effort levels and attitude on the pitch weren’t good enough prior to this season which was part of a larger problem under Ole. This is why nothing was sustainable and why it all fell apart, there was no real substance and like Moyes, LVG and Jose the result was an expensive mess.
 
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Ole was a mess. Under him discipline went to the dogs (injured players going to Dubai, agents speaking out of turn etc), his coaching team couldn't figure out how to tackle persistent issues like defending/scoring from set pieces while the club invested 415m without any form of return in terms of trophies. In terms of the squad he left a very unbalanced squad filled with players who are either ill suited for the modern game or have a weak mentality.

Let's dissect the team bit by bit

GK: He left a side with too many GKs. DDG is a top goalkeeper and the most highly paid one at the moment. Henderson is among the top 10 most paid goalkeepers in the world, Heaton can do a job as an EPL goalkeeper and only god knows why on earth Grant is still here. That could only cause friction in the dressing room as only one goalkeeper can play per game

DEF: He left a defence that is unsuited for modern football. Maguire is too slow for a high line, AWB offers nothing going forward which is acceptable for a late 80s RB but not for a modern FB, Telles can attack but he can't defend, Varane is good but there are question marks on whether he can remain fit and Shaw gives like 6 months of good football every 6 years.

DM: The only DM we've got is Matic whose 33. God knows why Ole never tackled that

B2B: We've got 2 and they aren't particularly good (McT and Fred)

No 10: We've got Pogba, VDB, Bruno, Lingard and Mata. WTF he was thinking hording so many no 10s? Couldn't he see a problem in having so many no 10s?

Flanks: We were told that the RW was a position we really needed to spend money upon. Ole's administration bought 3 and he barely played them. Sancho and Diallo were barely ever played while Pellistri was sent on loan. That's around 100m worth of talent.

STK: Ole saw no issues having a 36 year old and a 34 year old leading our line in an increasingly fast paced and defensive EPL
 
Roboc7 said:
Plenty of people did predict we’d regress this season, it was clear last season flattered us but everyone got all giddy about finishing above Liverpool.
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All teams have seasons that are worse than their previous ones at some point. It's not a super meaningful prediction.
 
devilish said:
Ole was a mess. Under him discipline went to the dogs (injured players going to Dubai, agents speaking out of turn etc), his coaching team couldn't figure out how to tackle persistent issues like defending/scoring from set pieces while the club invested 415m without any form of return in terms of trophies. In terms of the squad he left a very unbalanced squad filled with players who are either ill suited for the modern game or have a weak mentality.

Let's dissect the team bit by bit

GK: He left a side with too many GKs. DDG is a top goalkeeper and the most highly paid one at the moment. Henderson is among the top 10 most paid goalkeepers in the world, Heaton can do a job as an EPL goalkeeper and only god knows why on earth Grant is still here. That could only cause friction in the dressing room as only one goalkeeper can play per game

DEF: He left a defence that is unsuited for modern football. Maguire is too slow for a high line, AWB offers nothing going forward which is acceptable for a late 80s RB but not for a modern FB, Telles can attack but he can't defend, Varane is good but there are question marks on whether he can remain fit and Shaw gives like 6 months of good football every 6 years.

DM: The only DM we've got is Matic whose 33. God knows why Ole never tackled that

B2B: We've got 2 and they aren't particularly good (McT and Fred)

No 10: We've got Pogba, VDB, Bruno, Lingard and Mata. WTF he was thinking hording so many no 10s? Couldn't he see a problem in having so many no 10s?

Flanks: We were told that the RW was a position we really needed to spend money upon. Ole's administration bought 3 and he barely played them. Sancho and Diallo were barely ever played while Pellistri was sent on loan. That's around 100m worth of talent.

STK: Ole saw no issues having a 36 year old and a 34 year old leading our line in an increasingly fast paced and defensive EPL
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This. Plus almost all of his signing are either flop, misused or away from the club now. The only good one are Bruno, Sancho and Varane (jury still out for both of them) but any random fans in this forum would have signed them too not like they are some unknown talent from random league. We could get a proper CDM instead of wasting almost 80m in VDB, Amad and Pellistri who did not add anything to the squad at the moment.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
All teams have seasons that are worse than their previous ones at some point. It's not a super meaningful prediction.
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Well obviously, stating the obvious there a team can get better or worse, not sure what your point is. But it was the correct prediction, the idea Ole was taking us forward was incorrect. Take what meaning you want but plenty were deluded enough to think we’d be competing for the title this year.
 
I hate to see us losing points, but at least it's good to see you miserable pricks complaining under a new coach. Just as you will under the next, and the next after that and so on.
 
devilish said:
Ole was a mess. Under him discipline went to the dogs (injured players going to Dubai, agents speaking out of turn etc), his coaching team couldn't figure out how to tackle persistent issues like defending/scoring from set pieces while the club invested 415m without any form of return in terms of trophies. In terms of the squad he left a very unbalanced squad filled with players who are either ill suited for the modern game or have a weak mentality.
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During Oles reign ithe started off wanting to play “the United way” attacking on the front foot at pace down the flanks. You targeted young English players.

At some point during the middle of his reign that was scrapped and no one associated with your club understood the tactics or plan going forward.

Ok James and AWB are not United quality and never will be. Even Maguire to an extent but the plan was clear. Losing your way has cost you probably 5 years.2-3 years to rebalance and restyle the team and 2 years to perfect it.
 
 
 
If he didnt manage Cardiff I think his worth as a manager would have been much higher. I mean who would be surprised if a manager failed at United these days? Moyes failed spectacularly and got hired (and rehired) multiple times.
 
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