Nope.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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Nope.
It's ok to be wrong kiddo.
Fully agree with you. United should aspire to be an elite club and that means titles matter, nothing else. The only reason top 4 should matter is because it enables you to win the CL. Once you start treating top 4 as a success itself you become another Arsenal.
When you're so far up Ole's arse you'll bend the truth to big him up. No need to outright lie though. I hope you learn from your mistakes, and my door is always open for a DM, if you want more worldly advice, kiddo.
I can certainly help you, you do need it afterall. Cheers, kiddo.
You people really need to move on.
FTFY.
In hindsight, how did he fail to sing Haaland? And I never hear Haaland speak of him which is also weird.
"Gary Neville said: "Ole was your manager. How are you not at Manchester United?" He simply told Sky Sports: "You have to ask him."
Source
He'll be along with a 'hilarious' gif for you soon; rather than acknowledging he was a) wrong, or b) talking out of his arse.
He clearly wanted Haaland and we did approach Bellingham. It’s just wasn’t meant to be. Move on, guys
The highest form of wit.
The second worse manager after Moyes after SAF retired. Yes LVG was boring as hell but you know what he was doing. And he won the cup and lost the CL spot on goal difference only if my memory serves me right.
By results? He didn’t win a cup but he got us in the top 4 in both his full seasons as manager and that’s not been an easy task for everyone else.
I don't think that it was Ole's fault personally, the reports at that time indicated that at United Haaland felt only Ole wanted him there, but no the club. And considering that his position wasn't the strongest, Haaland instead opted for Dortmund, where the club board went for him, not just the manager.
Haaland's comment seems weird, but it might just be a "he knows why, I don't want to talk about this in public"
Ole is a norwegian. That's as far as his link with Halaand goes.
The boy clearly doesnt fancy playing for an ex Molde manager in a dysfunctional team
The boy clearly doesnt fancy playing for an ex Molde manager in a dysfunctional team
Yeah, I think his dad said as much and that you don’t know how the fortunes of a manager are going to go in a year, so they wanted to go to a place where they had a plan for him beyond just one manager’s wishes.
Haaland played for Molde at the time Ole managed them. The link is a bit bigger
He didn't fancy playing for a team that wouldn't agree to a buy-out clause in his contract. That's why he didn't sign for United as confirmed by the Dortmund Ceo.
He probably meant the only manager post SAF to qualify for the CL via back to back top 4 finishes.
Van Gaal was hilarious and he did win an FA Cup, but I don't think he was better than Solskjær beyond that. But we're just comparing turds now. And I very much include Mourinho in that pile of turds, even though he was correct in a lot of his criticism.
Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
Nah, he's off crying in another thread, and he said he 'forgot' about the EL win.
Nevertheless, he was wrong, and could have just acknowledged it, instead of getting upset about it.
You can probably make a positive spin on Van Gaal and Mourinho's tenures too. There are some underwhelming bullet points on that list too. "Played two cup finals in two years"
But what I don't get is that this person made a Solskjær propaganda piece and didn't even mention the comebacks? I think the comebacks are the only thing I'll remember when I'm old. It all felt scripted at one stage.
As far as I can tell, that specific statistic is for league goals in the first 75-ish matches under him, where Solskjær trailed only Guardiola and Klopp!
If you consider full seasons, we scored 112 goals in 61 matches in 2019–20 (reached the Europa League, FA Cup and League Cup semi-finals) and 121 goals in 61 matches in 2020–21 (reached the Europa League final and the League Cup semi-final). Neither of these were seasonal records, I'm afraid.
Spot on, there was the odd game here and there but overall his football was terrible. I still wonder with those fans claiming that we played the best football post-SAF. Sit low and hit on the counter, We could sack Ole and bring Big Sam and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference (though Big Sam is a master tactician compared to Ole). Most of the time the first 45 minutes I wanted to stick a fork in my eyes. It's a bit ironic for fans booing Mourinho for his football but then getting Ole for 3 freaking years with his Ole-ball and claiming him the best manager and best football post SAF.
He's not the only manager to beat Guardiola thrice in a single season, either.
As far as i remember, Klopp did the same in 2017-18. They beat City 4-3 at Anfield in the PL, and they also dismantled them in the CL quarter-finals (3-0, 2-1).
If someone wanted to be a bit mean about it, he/she could add that the third win was a meaningless second leg for the League Cup after City had won the first match at OT 3-0 quite comfortably.
There are some underwhelming bullet points on that list too. "Played two cup finals in two years"
And the longest away win record in PL history? What?
This is the internet, so they probably do.
I can’t see why it is so hard for people to give him any credit. Finishing 3rd and 2nd are respectable finishes. It’s always something about ‘empty stadiums’ or whatever, he did well for a fair period, it is what it is.
I often wonder this.
It is a very subjective thing and I'm certain some did thoroughly enjoy it; however it was very similar to his predecessor, yet was often lauded like he was going toe to toe with the greats.
I will caveat that however, we were sensational for a short period in project restart. That was the only time I enjoyed the football under him and genuinely thought he'd cracked it.
He did his best, but posts like that tweet trying to invent records or painting very mediocre achievements as something great just smack of insecurity and desperation to prove they were right to back him so fervently.
He was most definitely our most likeable manager post Fergie, but tactically and results wise he wasn't. I think for some their dislike for Jose means they refuse to accept he did do better than Solksjaer. I wanted Mourinho gone as much as the next person, but over his tenure he played a similar style and produced more silverware and points totals.
This.You can probably make a positive spin on Van Gaal and Mourinho's tenures too. There are some underwhelming bullet points on that list too. "Played two cup finals in two years"
But what I don't get is that this person made a Solskjær propaganda piece and didn't even mention the comebacks? I think the comebacks are the only thing I'll remember when I'm old. It all felt scripted at one stage.
Basically you can spin it around "lost two cup finals in two years" and end the argument.
Instead, he fancied a release clause. It's not that complicated, really.
But he was never going to challenge city. He was a nice guy who took over a very strong squad with some excellent players that gave some good performance for a while. But he was tactically naive, his game management terrible and most of his signings poor. apart from that...
The discussion about his tenure has become meaningless, if you ask me. Here on the Caf, we had two sides so entrenched into their initial positions, which led to whatever objectivity there was to be thrown out of the window very early on. Personally, my view is far away from both sides of the spectrum.
On one hand, i can't really give him credit for anything from a footballing perspective. Since we're discussing legacies, if the tenures of LvG and Mourinho were considered to be failures by most United fans, i can't see how Solskjaer's tenure could be viewed under a different lens. All three of them were offered ample time and were given huge war chests to shape their sides and they all failed to leave a mark. Finishing 3rd and 2nd, only for the wheels to come off afterward, isn't something to write home about when you're given three and a half years and close to half a billion Euros to spend. Holding the record for the most away games without a defeat is nice, and the empty stadiums shouldn't matter that much (since the conditions were the same for everybody). But it remains a record achieved without the pressure that comes with challenging for titles, and -again- it didn't prove a sign of better things. In fact, there's a good chance that ETH will have changed 8-9/11 of Solskjaer's starting line-up by this time next year. In my eyes, the 5 years of Mourinho and Solskjaer would have brought a club without United's wealth to its knees (but that's mostly on the club for not being decisive).
On the other hand, Solskjaer did try his best. No one can take this away from him. And in the end, his time here was, give or take, on par with the tenures of managers with much heavier CVs than his. In this context, calling him clueless or a P.E. teacher is plain wrong. Not being good enough doesn't mean you don't have a plan or that you don't revise it when needed. What his detractors often get wrong is that Solskjaer actually used to go back to the drawing board very often. He knew when his tactics weren't working and, most times, he was willing to sit down, think and come up with a plan that would unstick the carriage off the mud. Moreover, he was more than willing to tinker his general plan to suit the wants and the needs of his players. A modus operandi that did him more harm than good, as it proved in the end (especially after the arrival of Ronaldo). He deserves some sympathy for that. It all fell apart because the overarching philosophy was never good enough to take the club forward, but this doesn't mean that he didn't try to make things work during his time here.
There are both so obviously, hilariously untrue. You don't beat the top teams so frequently or have your teams orchestrate comebacks so often without being tactically astute or having good game management.
Ole lacked the ability to coach the team to play to a consistent and organised level, but he was excellent at on the fly adjustments and setting up to counter other teams.
A lot of that final paragraph is simply untrue. He never showed any signs of changing his tactics, out of a few attempts in his final season which saw us get some absolute hidings. These very rare occasions he moved away from his blueprint of a low block with fast transitions on the counter we looked utterly clueless; once again reinforcing the idea he wasn't really drilling the squad in any particular modern style, rather throwing at the wall to what would stick. He had a tried a true method and he stuck to it. Regarding your point of him pandering to individuals, that is not a good look for a professional manager.
We can speculate all we want about Ronaldo's return and whether he did or didn't hinder our potential progress that season. But as we've seen this season, we needed a manager that was strong enough to stand up to that petulant behaviour, not enable it.
It was his lack of adaptability that ultimately lead to his demise. He could not move us on from what had worked when our bottom level was on the floor. As the expectations grew, he seemed to shrink.
I agree with the rest of your post though. Objectively speaking he wasn't as successful as two of the post Fergie managers but he certainly tried and was doing what, in his mind, was best the club and was the most likeable manager we'd had since SAF.
You're bang on about people overrating his achievements whilst downplaying the objectively better achievements of others.
There's not a single rational fan that blames him or holds any ill will towards him; but I feel returning to the conversation 12 months removed from his sacking, at a time there's no real football on, a reasonable thing to do.
I get 121 goals for 20/21 season. 73 league goals, 15 CL goals including a 5-0 win at home to Leipzig. 19 goals in our drop down to Europa with scoring 6 at home to Roma (final pens not included). 6 FA Cup goals in including a 3-2 win over Liverpool. 8 league cup goals. Dropping to Europa adds many more games and goals over typical seasons of the past. 2006/7 was the last time had more than 120 goals.
His previous season was lower so they must mean 20/21.
Still it's a decent haul, we had Cavani Bruno Rashford Martial Greenwood scoring lots. Bruno got 28 goals.
I respect your opinion, but i disagree. I think that Solskjaer's ceiling as a manager being low (more so in an age when our rivals are coached by Pep and Klopp) is what has made a lot of people think of him solely as someone who just won the lottery and rode his luck for three and a half years. In my mind, these are two different things. I can't blame someone for not having what it takes to compete with the very best. And i also have some sympathy to spare for the people who try and fail than those who think they can do no wrong and blame everyone else but themselves for their shortcomings (LvG and Mourinho).
He started with a 433 with Matic-Herrera-Pogba (in a more advanced role) with a relatively high line and lots of running to close down the first attacker. United needed 8 secs to recover the ball during Solskjaer's early days, people often forget that. Then, the players started to drop like flies and he had to adjust. He didn't complain about it, but chose to not rock the boat instead (a grave mistake, one that cost the club millions). He came up with a 4231 with Martial as the false #9, James hugging the touchline to provide width and Rashford tucking inside on the other flank (with Shaw using the whole length on the left side) to be the main a goal threat. By then, we had also resorted to mid-block pressing traps. The main problem then was that we were struggling to open up tight defences. He went on to sign Bruno, and with Greenwood's emergence (and Matic's resurgence), we were basically deploying a 325 in the attacking third with both FBs high up the pitch and Bruno/Pogba in the midfield. When that stopped working too, he ended up with the 4231 with minimal to zero pressing traps. Add to this, the times he used a back three or a diamond shape on special occasions to get the result he desired.
I don't know about you, but this doesn't seem like a manager who didn't try to adapt or was clueless from a tactical perspective. Whether he was a pushover or not (with the players), we can't be 100& sure. And we will never be unless Solskjaer and/or the players from the era start talking about his time at United. I believe he was too much of a nice guy and he had too many friends in and around the club to do a proper culling or call them out for doing a bad job. After all, United are a family club. It doesn't reflect well on him and it's one of the reasons i joined the "out" camp very early. Anyone with a clear mind could see that we needed a proper reshaping of the squad after the mess Mourinho left behind. What ETH is doing now. Solskjaer wasn't up to the task. The worst thing about it is that spent a fortune to basically build on the squad Mourinho had created to suit tactics that had taken us back to the Stone Age from a tactical perspective. 150 million on Maguire and AWB, not addressing the midfield issues and perceiving midfielders as water carriers etc. This was his biggest mistake and what turned his tenure into an abject failure.