Sol Campbell

Nail 'em up, I say. Nail some sense into them.

I suppose Soli C has more of a point that Ince or Carlton Palmer with their management careers. At least Sol could play.
 
I wish the BBC news would quit playing the Campbell shite - saying "he had everything"...... "my games were fantastic"... crawl back under your stone you tosser.
 
cj_sparky said:
1996–2000Alan Shearer Stuart Pearce, Paul Ince, David Seaman, Tony Adams, Sol Campbell, Martin Keown,
2000–2006David Beckham Michael Owen, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand
2006–2010John Terry Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, David Beckham


Captains in bold, players who captained the side when they where absent.
Click to expand...

Looking at this list, the only player that I'd have no argument at replacing with Campbell would be Owen. Campbell was a fantastic defender, but the list of Captains/stand in Captains are all fantastic players. If the list included lesser players then he might have an argument, but even the staunchest Campbell fan would have trouble justifying his selection over the majority of names on that list.

If Campbell had issues with his race being a factor in the England Captaincy, he would have been better served to air them at a time when his book wasn't being released. Preferably when he was still playing and was at a higher profile than he is now.
 
Anyone as clearly mercenary as Sol wasn't going to be a first choice captain.
 
"Look at me!"

He should team up with the superhero justice league of black lawyers and see if they can really do some damage to the genuine fight against racism.

At very least it'd make another book to sell.
 
Gladiator said:
1) Never said I agree with him. I agree he poorly phrased it. But it shouldn't have to mean discussion on such an issue has to cease.
2) How can you say there is no justification? Are you saying you know that FA wasn't being discriminatory? This is essentially what my whole post is about. I am more so targeting the reaction than what Campbell actually said.
3) the quote I saw from Campbell only said black players which led me to assume he was only talking about black players.
Click to expand...

Because Rio Ferdinand was permanent captain, and other black or mixed race players have been captain at one point or another. It just so obviously isn't a problem and there's clearly no barrier to black players being named captain, with all evidence showing no discrimination whatsoever. If you could produce a long list of black or mixed race players who've been overlooked it might be different, but as it is there's really only Ince and Campbell who've had any real claim to actually being named captain.
 
Last edited:
JulesWinnfield said:
Because Rio Ferdinand was permanent captain, and numerous black or mixed race players (despite your ridiculous claim they don't count) have been captain at one point or another. It just so obviously isn't a problem and there's clearly no barrier to black players being named captain, with all evidence showing no discrimination whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Numerous? lol define numerous. Because it seems like for one person that could be 3 and for another 10. The timeframe is when Sol Campbell was in his prime and felt he deserved captaincy. You obviously dont understand my claim if you actually think I thought mixed race players dont count. It was in relation to the quote I saw. Not my own personal opinion. Interesting that Ince didnt really get much of a chance either (1 or 2 caps as captain?)

The question is whether or not at that time, Campbell faced some form of racial discrimination from FA regarding captaincy. Just because someone who's black or mixed received captaincy doesn't mean that there is no evidence/trace of racial discrimination. We don't know if he faced such discrimination or not but the fact you're completely ruling out is baffling to say the least.
 
I think Sol should count himself lucky... i mean, ok being black obviously stopped him from being England captain but atleast he is allowed to drop the N- bomb when singing along to 2pac or Dr Dre. Us white guys have to 'bleep' ourselves out.
 
Gladiator said:
Numerous? lol define numerous. Because it seems like for one person that could be 3 and for another 10. The timeframe is when Sol Campbell was in his prime and felt he deserved captaincy. You obviously dont understand my claim if you actually think I thought mixed race players dont count. It was in relation to the quote I saw. Not my own personal opinion. Interesting that Ince didnt really get much of a chance either (1 or 2 caps as captain?)

The question is whether or not at that time, Campbell faced some form of racial discrimination from FA regarding captaincy. Just because someone who's black or mixed received captaincy doesn't mean that there is no evidence/trace of racial discrimination. We don't know if he faced such discrimination or not but the fact you're completely ruling out is baffling to say the least.
Click to expand...

Ince started 7 times as captain which isn't too bad, he could perhaps have had a legitimate claim of being permanent captain (certainly more than Campbell) but then Adams and Shearer are hardly controversial choices for captain either.

How exactly do you think an organisation isn't discriminating by the way? Because I really can't see how they can, when seemingly even selecting black or mixed race players as captain doesn't mean anything because of a couple of cases where a black player didn't get the job (when there were plenty of other good candidates). I mean really, there's only been 2 black or mixed race players - Campbell and Ince who've had genuine claims of being captain and not got the job, whilst the fact that Ferdinand was captain, and minority players have been given the armband in games suggests there's no issue. Can you say it definitely doesn't happen? No, but then to make out there's an issue to discuss based on no evidence (and actually evidence to the contrary) is equally wrong.

It's a bit like when Ince was shouting racism over managing when he didn't get the Wolves job a few years ago, which was completely ridiculous when he had no experience at all and Mick McCarthy was given the job ahead of him. Can you definitely say that wasn't racism? No, but all common sense suggests it was just a logical decision.
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Ince started 7 times as captain which isn't too bad, he could perhaps have had a legitimate claim of being permanent captain (certainly more than Campbell) but then Adams and Shearer are hardly controversial choices for captain either.

How exactly do you think an organisation isn't discriminating by the way? Because I really can't see how they can, when seemingly even selecting black or mixed race players as captain doesn't mean anything because of a couple of cases where a black player didn't get the job (when there were plenty of other good candidates). I mean really, there's only been 2 black or mixed race players - Campbell and Ince who've had genuine claims of being captain and not got the job, whilst the fact that Ferdinand was captain, and minority players have been given the armband in games suggests there's no issue. Can you say it definitely doesn't happen? No, but then to make out there's an issue to discuss based on no evidence (and actually evidence to the contrary) is equally wrong.

It's a bit like when Ince was shouting racism over managing when he didn't get the Wolves job a few years ago, which was completely ridiculous when he had no experience at all and Mick McCarthy was given the job ahead of him. Can you definitely say that wasn't racism? No, but all common sense suggests it was just a logical decision.
Click to expand...
Yeah fair enough and good points Jules but how do we know there's no evidence? Because there's no revealed evidence? Does that then mean there's no evidence? Should issues only be discussed if there's revealed evidence? What if the "evidence" revealed is questionable and thus not regarded as evidence? We talk about issues even if the evidence is not there (i.e. "If he said that" "If she did that"). For Campbell, if he's just saying this blindly he's really done himself no favours. I don't know how this helps endorse his book either. I'm less inclined to even want to read it.

It also seems bizarre to me that he would feel something so strongly yet there's no incident of racial discrimination for him to concretely point to. But we cant rule out that possiblity now can we? ;)
 
Gladiator said:
Yeah fair enough and good points Jules but how do we know there's no evidence? Because there's no revealed evidence? Does that then mean there's no evidence? Should issues only be discussed if there's revealed evidence? What if the "evidence" revealed is questionable and thus not regarded as evidence? We talk about issues even if the evidence is not there (i.e. "If he said that" "If she did that"). For Campbell, if he's just saying this blindly he's really done himself no favours. I don't know how this helps endorse his book either. I'm less inclined to even want to read it.
Click to expand...

Well if you're going to come out and effectively call your old managers and people in charge of the FA racist, you should have some sort of evidence to back it up if you're going to make a big public declaration of it. Fair enough if he claimed he was actually told that was the reason, it gets a lot murkier, but it doesn't seem that way, it seems his sole basis for deciding he was discriminated against was he didn't get given the captaincy whilst his comments about mixed races players not getting the captaincy shows he hasn't exactly put much thought to his comments.
 
Sol Campbell has had an utter nightmare. I feel sorry for him. The delusion is strong in this one.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...d-have-been-England-captain-for-10-years.html

Lord Triesman, the former FA chairman, denies in the book that the organisation was consciously racist, but said: "It is more likely if he was white that he would have captained England on more occasions."
Click to expand...

Mental if he's really said this. I realise Triesman is a Spurs fan and has never missed an opportunity to criticise the FA, but perhaps in this case there is no smoke without fire?

Though looking at the list of captains posted in Sol's time, I definitely wouldn't have had Campbell in charge over any of them.
 
Obviously I'm entering this debate late, but are people really suggesting that it's completely inconceivable that Campbell was subject to racism in the England set-up between 1996 and 2007 when in 2012 Rio Ferdinand was left out for the Euros because John Terry had racially abused his brother? The claims aren't that spurious.

I doubt Campbell's suggesting that the FA got round a table and said 'let's choose Beckham instead of Sol Campbell because he's white'.That's not really the argument, the argument is whether potential candidates weren't considered for the role because they were black, and there's plenty of evidence that suggests that possibility.
 
I saw him on BBC News talking about it, and he was basically saying "I had everything in terms of ability, personality, I even saved kittens from trees!" (I may have made the last bit up, but the rest of it was genuinely what he said).

Thing is, look at the England captains whilst he played. Shearer, Beckham and Terry. Shearer was loved by more or less everyone (at least that's my memory of him at the time, I know he's probably not as popular now he's gone into being an awful pundit), and lead by example scoring a hell of a lot of goals. Beckham (1998 aside) was pretty much the hero and face of the England team, especially after what he did against Greece, by which point we may as well have just stitched the armband into his shirt sleeve. Terry, OK I'm not his biggest fan, but at that stage Sol would have been getting on, so he'd only have been captain for a year or two, which is barely worth it.

And the other thing is, with his arrogance here, and the whole "everyone in the Ukraine is racist and will murder you" thing a couple of years ago, he's making himself out to be a right prick. Maybe the FA is partially racist, I have no idea, but I'd be willing to bet he wasn't made captain because he's actually a bit of a tosser. When John Terry is considered a better candidate on a personal level for a job than you, then maybe it's time to start having a long hard look at yourself.
 
Just listening to this deluded fool on 5Live, he has been asked why he holds these views and all he can say was "that's the way the system works".
 
The 39-year-old led his country three times in friendly matches, and Eriksson - who selected Campbell 32 times during his five-year reign - insisted in the Daily Telegraph that he had come under no pressure from the FA not to give the defender the armband on a more permanent basis.

'Not a chance - during my years, not a chance,' the Swede said. 'As you know, from my first to my last game, I had David Beckham (as captain) and there were never, ever any discussions at all in the team or in the FA about the captain.'
 
peterstorey said:
Anyone as clearly mercenary as Sol wasn't going to be a first choice captain.
Click to expand...
Exactly. What kind of twat leaves Spurs as captain to join Arsenal? You can't expect to lead a team after that.
 
I don't disagree with the broader point about the under-representation of black players in management/coaching/senior roles, but he's always come across like the sort of bloke who blames everyone else for everything that goes wrong for him. After all, isn't it just possible his managers picked up what became evident when he pissed off at half time in a game and went missing.
 
Brophs said:
I don't disagree with the broader point about the under-representation of black players in management/coaching/senior roles, but he's always come across like the sort of bloke who blames everyone else for everything that goes wrong for him. After all, isn't it just possible his managers picked up what became evident when he pissed off at half time in a game and went missing.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I just think the top managers he played under just didn't consider him captain material, that's all. And you would have to say they appear right. He was a world class CB in his peak but I never really saw him as a captain either as he seemed a bit of a loner.
 
a mate of mine was a regular at Spurs around the time he left for Arsenal... After the first game back he was obviously giving the guy a bit of abuse as everyone else in the home section was. The next morning his Dad called him up, and said "have you seen the NOTW this morning son?", in a really serious voice. So he went and checked the paper, and they'd printed a double page picture of a section of the Spuds fans, he was right in the middle sticking his fingers up, with a look of absolute rage on his face as Campbell walked past :lol:. He came from a really strict family and his mother was pissed at him for months!
 
Kind of surprised at the level of some of the vitriol aimed at him in here. Almost as if playing the race card is as bad as actually being racist. Us poor, put upon offended whities, ey?

I don't think his potential as a permanent England captaincy was effected, no, but I agree with Bernstien that there's a certain accepted, expected ideal of a England captain at play, and he's usually white, and that people like Michael Owen may not have been given it ahead of him on a temp basis if they'd been as black as Sol.

Thats just my hunch. And I don't think this, for example...

DiseaseOfTheAge said:
It isn't impossible, no. Chris Kamara is very well known, if not entirely for the right reasons. Yorke does work for Sky, occasionally. Jason Roberts used to be on the BBC (may still be, not sure). No doubt a fair few I'm forgetting but considering the amount of personality and insight lacking white players who forge a career in the media, many of which had a football career nowhere near as successful as Campbell, I find it rather likely he would've been in higher demand if he shared their skin colour, personally.
Click to expand...

...is a remotely controversial opinion.
 
Mockney said:
Kind of surprised at the level of some of the vitriol aimed at him in here. Almost as if playing the race card is as bad as actually being racist. Us poor, put upon offended whities, ey?

I don't think his potential as a permanent England captaincy was effected, no, but I agree with Bernstien that there's a certain accepted, expected ideal of a England captain at play, and he's usually white, and that people like Michael Owen may not have been given it ahead of him on a temp basis if they'd been as black as Sol.
Click to expand...

Never actually thought of it that way but it sort of makes sense. If you asked me one night down the pub to conjure up a mental image of an England captain, I'd think straight away of a Bobby Moore or a Bryan Robson, not Sol Campbell.

Edit: Booby Moore. God forgive me!
 
The board can be very quick to sweep any discussion of race under the rug if it doesn't involve sticking it to a Chelsea or Liverpool player.
 
Mockney said:
Kind of surprised at the level of some of the vitriol aimed at him in here. Almost as if playing the race card is as bad as actually being racist. Us poor, put upon offended whities, ey?

I don't think his potential as a permanent England captaincy was effected, no, but I agree with Bernstien that there's a certain accepted, expected ideal of a England captain at play, and he's usually white, and that people like Michael Owen may not have been given it ahead of him on a temp basis if they'd been as black as Sol.

Thats just my hunch. And I don't think this, for example...



...is a remotely controversial opinion.
Click to expand...
I don't think the vast majority of people are put out by it on that basis. I just had a look at England players with over 25 caps and a cursory look at the black players in the list shows

Ashley Cole
Rio
John Barnes
Sol Campbell
Heskey
Defoe
Ince
David James
Glen Johnson
Theo Walcott
SWP
Ian Wright
Kieron Dyer
Ashley Young
Viv Anderson
Joleon Lescott

Of that list only Rio, Ince and possibly Campbell stand out as possible captaincy material. For example, Ashley Cole has been amazing for England in his time, but could you see him bringing together an entire dressing room. It just seems to me that each of them had arguably better candidates in front of them at the time in terms of permanent captains and when it was passed around it does seem to have been treated as a reward for the best players rather than the best leader.

Of course there's the argument of why is that list so underwhelming in terms of being potential captains, and whether or not black players are thrust into those roles as younger players (I have no idea, tbh) which is where they become the sorts of leaders that get to captain their countries. Had Campbell been around a decade or two earlier I think he'd have had an argument, as I think it would have been a problem socially, but in his day, and now I think if there was a black player who was the best candidate I'd like to think he'd get it. Perhaps that's naive, though.
 
He's made a complete tit of himself, and I think it will probably backfire in terms of his book sales as people will think he's a complete tool very obviously trying to stir up some controversy to sell his shit. As the manager not the FA appoint the manager, he's basically accusing all the managers he played for as being racist. As well as the besmirching of the managers, and fans (he says the fans probably didn't want a black captain either) it's the arrogance that pisses me off more than anything.
 
togg said:
Sol Campbell has always been one of those footballs, in my mind, who thinks he is vastly more intelligent than he is. This latest comment proves it...
Click to expand...

I mean if a football is making any comments at all you have to give it a bit of credit for it's intelligence...
 
He honestly said that if anyone had to put up with what he has had in his career they'd have killed themselves.
 
Sixpence said:
He honestly said that if anyone had to put up with what he has had in his career they'd have killed themselves.
Click to expand...

That's a massive swipe at those black players who paved the way in the 70s and 80s. Players like Clyde Best of West Ham. His own bloody fans threw bananas at him.
 
A few journos saying on twitter how Campbell would start most interviews with "this isn't gonna take long is it?"
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Well if you're going to come out and effectively call your old managers and people in charge of the FA racist, you should have some sort of evidence to back it up if you're going to make a big public declaration of it. Fair enough if he claimed he was actually told that was the reason, it gets a lot murkier, but it doesn't seem that way, it seems his sole basis for deciding he was discriminated against was he didn't get given the captaincy whilst his comments about mixed races players not getting the captaincy shows he hasn't exactly put much thought to his comments.
Click to expand...
Yeah once again Jules, not really sure what's going through his mind. Could care less. Not really defending his opinion either. Just saying as outlandish as it was, it's possible at the heart of it Campbell may be trying to get at something which isn't outside the realm of possibility. I'm more miffed that people dismissed the possibility of racial discrimination not because I think it happened but because it seems like there's a struggle to talk about these issues regarding race. It's still a problem now and it was worse back then. So it simply begs the question
 
Mockney said:
Kind of surprised at the level of some of the vitriol aimed at him in here. Almost as if playing the race card is as bad as actually being racist. Us poor, put upon offended whities, ey?

I don't think his potential as a permanent England captaincy was effected, no, but I agree with Bernstien that there's a certain accepted, expected ideal of a England captain at play, and he's usually white, and that people like Michael Owen may not have been given it ahead of him on a temp basis if they'd been as black as Sol.

Thats just my hunch. And I don't think this, for example...



...is a remotely controversial opinion.
Click to expand...

I think you are overlooking the main reason people are quick to question this. Clue, it's not about offense ;)

Someone else, and I'd be very interested in what they have to say. I think you are right with the mental image. However with someone with his track record and a book to sell?

Even kick it out are pretty much saying the same thing about him.
 
Sixpence said:
He honestly said that if anyone had to put up with what he has had in his career they'd have killed themselves.
Click to expand...

oh right...very clever and very insulting to the millions of people on the breadline struggling to survive and being prejudiced against by a priviledged Public school brigade of a government...
 
Statements like the one Campbell made do more harm to the 'kick it out' campaign than anything a few idiots in the stand could ever do.
It's a ridiculous statement to come out with, he's making a very serious statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. All so he can sell a book to make the poor little rich man even richer. I expect and hope the book to be a flop.
 
Getsme said:
Statements like the one Campbell made do more harm to the 'kick it out' campaign than anything a few idiots in the stand could ever do.
It's a ridiculous statement to come out with, he's making a very serious statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. All so he can sell a book to make the poor little rich man even richer. I expect and hope the book to be a flop.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's pretty much what I've said.

It kind of proves the point when people talk about the reactions to it in this thread. Much like the black justice League of lawyers, when this clown wants to talk, why should anyone give credence to a word out of his greedy selfish mouth?
 
Redlambs said:
Yep, that's pretty much what I've said.

It kind of proves the point when people talk about the reactions to it in this thread. Much like the black justice League of lawyers, when this clown wants to talk, why should anyone give credence to a word out of his greedy selfish mouth?
Click to expand...

He has a 4 page thread, I struggled to know how this would get past the first page, it's a non story.

The man needed press and attention over his new book, needed people talking about him, so said something silly and controversial, it's nothing life changing, if I was asked to say a stupid statement and told it would generate me a hell of a lot more money for just saying a sentence, I think most would find it hard to refuse.

Why people are slagging him off though is funny, we see it every day in terms of people "looking for prejudice", he hasn't done anything new, he's just in the spotlight because of his profile.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.