I'm just curious. What trait would make him more 'popular' if he were white?
Sol Campbell
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
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As a white person, I'd like to say Sol Campbell was an incredibly underrated defender and if he was more fit than me (and I'm not!) would probably have had alot more caps.
That still does not make you, nor entitle you to, the England Captaincy. Playing the race card after you retire not only makes you a coward, but a cnut and an attention seeking one at that.
That still does not make you, nor entitle you to, the England Captaincy. Playing the race card after you retire not only makes you a coward, but a cnut and an attention seeking one at that.
I'd say he was rated as one of the worlds top defenders at the time. He was never England captain material though, and his comments, if true, confirms this .
I genuinely didn't realise Crooks was a former player (just googled, played a few games for us, apparently...). I think I just found it hard to believe anyone his shape could've been a professional sportsman.
Went to Ipswich in the early 80s when Crooks was playing for us. He scored a very good goal to cap off a decent performance. It sticks in the memory because I can't remember him ever having another good game for us.
There was a fair bit of paper talk at one time about a possible move to United. He was a very good defender in his prime but I dunno about the England captaincy. He was never going to get it ahead of Shearer, skin colour notwithstanding.
I think this is the most objectionable thing about what he's said (I don't really think it makes any different to anti-racism campaigns). It's hugely disrespectful to Shearer and Beckham who both deserved the captaincy.
Campbell isn't only saying that the FA was institutionally racist in his time but that it continues to be so, how then does he explain the events surrounding Capello's resignation?
By pointing out that a desire to be seen to do the right thing in a high profile case is very different to doing the right thing on a regular basis?
Another conspiracy cunningly concealed by throwing brave John to the wolves? Well, we know the setting of Robert Langdon's next adventure.
The White Lion by Dan Brown
No conspiracy. I'm sure the FA both strives to and believe they manage to present equal opportunities. I just have my doubts that they'd be right in thinking that's the case.
I'd like to know what personal and leadership qualities he feels he possessed that qualified him to be captain of England. Just being a good player doesn't make you a leader. How well or otherwise was he liked by the rest of the players?
All I'm hearing is that he wasn't made captain because he is black, which is far too easy and simplistic an accusation. Maybe the simple truth is just that he was never captain material - black or white.
One other thing - in every England team he played in there were 10 players who weren't captain. What's the reason for the other 9 players not being captain?
All I'm hearing is that he wasn't made captain because he is black, which is far too easy and simplistic an accusation. Maybe the simple truth is just that he was never captain material - black or white.
One other thing - in every England team he played in there were 10 players who weren't captain. What's the reason for the other 9 players not being captain?
What a dick
Ex pro needing to sell book in controversy shocker.
I never thought Campbell had the personality to be a captain. He has that half scared expression on his face everytime he plays.
Besides, wasn't Ferdinand captain for a time for England? And didn't Campbell play during the Beckham captain era? You'd think Campbell would think of this things before mouthing off to the media. On second thoughts, I think he actually did ask these questions, and came up to his conclusion anyway. Wtf.
Besides, wasn't Ferdinand captain for a time for England? And didn't Campbell play during the Beckham captain era? You'd think Campbell would think of this things before mouthing off to the media. On second thoughts, I think he actually did ask these questions, and came up to his conclusion anyway. Wtf.
Soli C in da house.
They were talking to John Scales just now on Talksport about this and he brought up about Sol not liking Tim Sherwood as he was after the captaincy at Spurs when Sol was the captaincy. It was mentioned somewhere that the gay rumours about Sol came from the Spurs dressing room. Is that the sort of thing Sherwood would be behind. Just throwing that out there. I think he is silly throwing the race card out there as I am more baffled why he thought he should have been the captain for England for 10 years anyway.
I'm sure he would have been a fine captain for England, but it's not easy to argue against the captaincy of Shearer and Beckham during Campbell's England career.
He knows what to say to create enough "controversy" to get people interested in his book. It's just a fecked up marketing ploy mostly even if he could convince himself of being 100% right.
Sol Campbell failed to hold down a first team place with England for more than 10 years so I'm not sure how he feels he should have been captain for that long. He was also overlooked for the Arsenal captaincy in that time in favour of Vieira and Henry so maybe it's not a race issue and simply the fact that several managers didn't rate him that highly as a leader or rated others as better players than him. You do question the leadership qualities of someone who once asked to be substituted at half-time in a match and then left the stadium.
Campbell clearly has some deep-rooted issues with the FA (he is even doing his coaching badges with the Welsh FA rather than England) and believes that he was the victim of discrimination during his England career but he is yet to provide any real evidence to support this beyond ridiculous claims such as this one.
Campbell clearly has some deep-rooted issues with the FA (he is even doing his coaching badges with the Welsh FA rather than England) and believes that he was the victim of discrimination during his England career but he is yet to provide any real evidence to support this beyond ridiculous claims such as this one.
Was Sol Campbell underrated as a footballer? Definitely. Should Sol Campbell have captained more games for England? Possibly. Are the two aformentioned points in any way related to the colour of his skin? I highly, highly doubt it.
Discrimination exists in the world, but Sol's statement is ridiculous. To categorically come out and say he'd have been Captain for 10 years if he was white is such a stupid thing to say because it isn't true.
Unfortunately, there exists people in the world who do discriminate on skin colour - but to suggest that he would have been Captain if he was white is saying there is systematic racism in the FA and anyone who elects the captain. I don't think this is true at all. The world has changed; racism exists, but in a minority. I know this because I am an Indian. I do not feel I have ever been held back in life in this country because of the colour of my skin.
I'm not saying that hasn't happened to Sol - it could well have. But to say that that is why he wasnt captain for 10 years is just stupid.
Discrimination exists in the world, but Sol's statement is ridiculous. To categorically come out and say he'd have been Captain for 10 years if he was white is such a stupid thing to say because it isn't true.
Unfortunately, there exists people in the world who do discriminate on skin colour - but to suggest that he would have been Captain if he was white is saying there is systematic racism in the FA and anyone who elects the captain. I don't think this is true at all. The world has changed; racism exists, but in a minority. I know this because I am an Indian. I do not feel I have ever been held back in life in this country because of the colour of my skin.
I'm not saying that hasn't happened to Sol - it could well have. But to say that that is why he wasnt captain for 10 years is just stupid.
Credit where it's due; it's a good way to raise awareness of your tedious autobiography
Sol is is a twat
He always displayed such integrity and loyalty. A deserving captain Sol was...but never was. His skin colour was indeed the only barrier.
For Campbell, everything is about race. He has never done any wrong in his life and anything that he wants that he didn't get are solely down to his colour.
If his elbow was white he'd have killed Ole.
He's never been all there in the head.
Prejudice does still exist in football and many walks of life, but this is not about prejudice, this is about selling a book, that is due out soon.
Maybe if his prime were in this time, he'd be England captain, though. Just too much competition in that early 2000's.
havent read the comments in this thread. As a black man though, I feel what he's trying to say is that issue of race still exists and it was certainly pertinent at that time when he was in his prime. I didnt read the thread but i wouldn't be surprised if people called him "cnut" "moron" "idiot" or something related to that. This always happens. The issue for me is when it comes to racism, more often than not, no matter the claim it's immediately shouted down.
I just feel like some people just wont entertain the idea racism can exist in such a context and immediately it becomes brushed under the rug. Campbell didn't pick his words as carefully as I would have liked, but it still begs the question about the possibility of race impacting the decision to make a black man the England captain and for an extended period of time. Especially if they're performances merit it. Some will say "look at Rio" but as far as I know, he's mixed. Different story.
We all have our strong opinions on this issue. It's simply baffling though how some want to brush it under the rug as if it's not an issue at all. It's worth being discussed imo and it shouldnt be difficult to have reasonable discourse on it either. Folks just need to look beyond their emotions and realise such incidents arent outside the realm of possibility.
I just feel like some people just wont entertain the idea racism can exist in such a context and immediately it becomes brushed under the rug. Campbell didn't pick his words as carefully as I would have liked, but it still begs the question about the possibility of race impacting the decision to make a black man the England captain and for an extended period of time. Especially if they're performances merit it. Some will say "look at Rio" but as far as I know, he's mixed. Different story.
We all have our strong opinions on this issue. It's simply baffling though how some want to brush it under the rug as if it's not an issue at all. It's worth being discussed imo and it shouldnt be difficult to have reasonable discourse on it either. Folks just need to look beyond their emotions and realise such incidents arent outside the realm of possibility.
How ?
Not what Sol seems to think.
If there is something to discuss the worst way to make a discussion of something is to make a completely ludicrous statement that just makes people ignore your comments on the issue. The idea that England captain's really are picked based on colour is really reaching and has absolutely no justification, all it shows is the delusion and outright arrogance of Campbell. There's prejudice and discrimination in some areas of society and yeah it gets ignored and there's things to be done, but it doesn't do any good to try and find discrimination where there's none anyway - all that does is get peoples backs up and leads to people just ignoring more legitimate complaints when you try to attribute absolutely everything to race.
Out of interests seeing as you seem to agree with him, which black players do you think should have got the captaincy but have been ignored for it? There's only been 5 permanent captains in the last 20 years, one of which was Rio who you conveniently choose to not include as for some reason racism won't extent to someone who's mixed race.
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Sol Campbell never seemed like captain material to me as an outside observer. He always seemed quiet and possibly aloof. He was always a solid defender but he was never the type of player that you would associate with the 'passion' that the English seem to want from their captains. Interestingly Campbell was captain the same amount of times for England as Bobby Charlton and Sir Bobby made 36 more appearances. Frank Lampard has also only been captain for England twice and he has made 35 more appearances than Campbell.
I think that Beckham succeeded Tony Adams as captain and that time period covered Campbell's England career. I don't think that anyone would chose Campbell over Adams as captain and Beckham turned out to be one of the best captains that England ever had.
You could ask why Paul Ince didn't make more appearances as captain as he genuinely was captain material in the English sense. In my opinion Sol wasn't and I don't think that it had anything to do with the colour of his skin.
Good publicity for his book though.
I think that Beckham succeeded Tony Adams as captain and that time period covered Campbell's England career. I don't think that anyone would chose Campbell over Adams as captain and Beckham turned out to be one of the best captains that England ever had.
You could ask why Paul Ince didn't make more appearances as captain as he genuinely was captain material in the English sense. In my opinion Sol wasn't and I don't think that it had anything to do with the colour of his skin.
Good publicity for his book though.
You say you're black but then again you say this incredibly stupid thing. Mixed people aren't any less victims of racism than blacks.
Nail on head. I guess he's managed to sell Rowem a copy but I doubt anyone else believes his BS.
Heh heh that's not what i'm saying though. It's too bad you assumed I meant that. As I said to Jules, the quote I saw omitted any mention of mixed:
"It's alright to have black captains in the Under-18s and Under-21s but not for the full national side - there is a ceiling."
So by that I assumed it was a different story to campbell's statement. I did not mean if you are mixed, you dont experience racism. Even though Rio is mixed, I think he identifies himself as black ( a separate matter). His brother not too long ago was involved with a racist incident involving John Terry. So obviously mixed people encounter racism. But based on the quote I saw, I thought Campbell was specifically talking about black players. my mistake
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1) Never said I agree with him. I agree he poorly phrased it. But it shouldn't have to mean discussion on such an issue has to cease.
2) How can you say there is no justification? Are you saying you know that FA wasn't being discriminatory? This is essentially what my whole post is about. I am more so targeting the reaction than what Campbell actually said.
3) the quote I saw from Campbell only said black players which led me to assume he was only talking about black players.
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No pb man, if I seemed jumpy it's because I'm black myself and sensible to these issues.
I completely understand mate. I saw the thread earlier and intended to avoid it but had a conversation yesterday which led me to that initial post. The reactions always get to me though. Just seems like peeps dont really want to have a discussion on it but are happy to act like everything is kumbaya. Like asking Christians why they believe what they believe.
I doubt they'd talk to you with your name. Cut them up and then throw them to the lions.
Ha! Well the first thing I'd say is that I'm one of them while sharpening my sword.
