That's not the all the point, these are two different situations that will have different laws applied to them. In the first case Michigan brandishing laws are applicable, it wasn't self defense, she left the safety of her car and waved a firearm with intent to cause fear which is illegal. The video that you provided shows someone being shoved to the ground and firing at the aggressor while he was in a vulnerable position.
Social Media Justice: A "Karen" faces consequences for threatening a Black man with cops
- Thread starter crappycraperson
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That's not the all the point, these are two different situations that will have different laws applied to them. In the first case Michigan brandishing laws are applicable, it wasn't self defense, she left the safety of her car and waved a firearm with intent to cause fear which is illegal. The video that you provided shows someone being shoved to the ground and firing at the aggressor while he was in a vulnerable position.
I can't believe you are being more defensive about the actual shooting
You are completely negating the fact of the women threating her and then proceeding to block and bang on her car trying to prevent them from leaving. Everything that transpired, even if pushing it will likely be within the boundaries of law considering once things de-escalated, she left
yeah... but noI can't believe you are being more defensive about the actual shooting
You are completely negating the fact of the women threating her and then proceeding to block and bang on her car trying to prevent them from leaving. Everything that transpired, even if pushing it will likely be within the boundaries of law considering once things de-escalated, she left
Do you understand that being charged is not the same as being convicted?
Their lawyer will be presenting their case based around what is permissible within the law
do you understand the police dont charge people if they believe their actions are within the law.
Just like the guy who shot somebody in your other video i expect them to be prosecuted and loose their case
Does this same trail of thought apply to all the police justice being dished out
Also it's clearly explained why the guy was eventually charged in the other video having previously not being even though he killed someone..
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I can't believe you are being more defensive about the actual shooting
You are completely negating the fact of the women threating her and then proceeding to block and bang on her car trying to prevent them from leaving. Everything that transpired, even if pushing it will likely be within the boundaries of law considering once things de-escalated, she left
Because you have to look at the actual context which you seemingly aren't. I can see why the victims attorney claims that the shooting wasn't justified since his client backed up after shoving the shooter but the action happens quickly, maybe the shooter shouldn't have used his firearm but there is in my opinion a clear mitigating factor. In the case of the Michigan case, the action is lengthy, the couple are safe in their car and they decided to leave if and brandish a firearm, it's not a reaction. And they are not blocked, look at where their car actually is when they stop it, they are totally out of the parking space.
Again you are chosing to forget what transpired previously. This only became a talking point because people got to see the full video and not they purposely cut up one.The threats and in your face aggression followed by trying to block them from leaving and banging on her car.
When she pulls out the gun, she was not verbally threating to shoot and was backing off. You can clearly see that the lady with the camera was backing away as well, when that happened the lady with the gun left.
I don't, because previously the couple slowly went back to the safety of their car, they turned their backs at people that were very close to them which means that they didn't actually felt that they were in a life or death situation and they weren't.
You are mischaracterizing what happened previously which was a shouting contest, you are trying to turn it into something else even though everyone's behavior at the time points to the contrary of what you are claiming, you don't walk slowly to your car turning your back to someone who you believe is imminently going to assault you. Which means that at best they started to feel that the use of a firearm was justified when they were in their car.
I can't believe you are being more defensive about the actual shooting
You are completely negating the fact of the women threating her and then proceeding to block and bang on her car trying to prevent them from leaving. Everything that transpired, even if pushing it will likely be within the boundaries of law considering once things de-escalated, she left
Skip to 1.30. As the camera pans up, the daughter shouts ‘ma watch’ as the car reverses; the mother says “oh you’re going to hit me” then gets hit; after being hit she strikes the window & makes another threat. Feel free to argue the mother was obstructing the vehicle but the car creates the first contact.
Someone’s completely negating the facts here & it isn’t @JPRouve
Actually watch the video then take in his comments.
They are being verbally assaulted. They get into their car, roll up their windows which in effect removes them from the verbal assault. The car reverses with enough room to turn away & a collision occurs.
There’s then a choice; either pull away & leave or stop & escalate.
Both sides act terribly here but attempting to normalise the response of a Jillian Weustenberg here for being irritated is wrong.
also @Sky1981 who claimed the man sat in the car and did not draw a weapon - the video clearly shows him outside the car with a drawn weapon... basically exactly what the police said after charging him and the reason the University terminated his contract... he got out the car and threatened people with a loaded weapon... hence he has been charged with felony assault
But hey you were told about this yesterday then refused to admit you were wrong
How about now... still saying he sat calmly in the car and did not draw a gun?
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At first I didn't see it but you can see the gun at 1:48.
He still did nothing wrong in my eyes.
If he shot the woman yes we have a case. He didnt. They called the police.
IF I have a legal gun with the proper license I'd do the same thing.
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Jaysus. Didn’t realise they both got out of the car with guns drawn. America is so fecked up.
Tbh I wouldn't describe the weapon drawn part as very clear, he's holding it by his side and it's seen very briefly.
You lot are very unfair towards the couple. It's easy for us to discern things from the safety of our home. It's not always 20/20 when you're there without hindsight.
They did not know what's gonna happen. They didn't know is she's not armed. They didn't know if she's looking for trouble. They didn't know if she got back up.
Plus They have to confront the girl, if they run away it'll be a hit and run and they could be charged with legal issue which could end up very costly.
They pulled their gun, tell her to calm down and back off and called the cops. Could have would have but they didn't shoot them. That's where I draw the line. They're not being trigger happy, they did their part trying to deescalate, trying to run away infact, if not for the daughter hitting the car they would have got away and none of this would happened.
I know about BLM and the current issue, but this case is clearly not racially motivated in my eyes. The man and wife did nothing wrong, morally, and substantially and I stand by my view.
They did not know what's gonna happen. They didn't know is she's not armed. They didn't know if she's looking for trouble. They didn't know if she got back up.
Plus They have to confront the girl, if they run away it'll be a hit and run and they could be charged with legal issue which could end up very costly.
They pulled their gun, tell her to calm down and back off and called the cops. Could have would have but they didn't shoot them. That's where I draw the line. They're not being trigger happy, they did their part trying to deescalate, trying to run away infact, if not for the daughter hitting the car they would have got away and none of this would happened.
I know about BLM and the current issue, but this case is clearly not racially motivated in my eyes. The man and wife did nothing wrong, morally, and substantially and I stand by my view.
Brandishing a firearm is illegal, even in shall issue states. People with carry permits should know this.
@Sky1981
I mean, I have sympathy for them because noone should have to put up with what the mother and daughter did, but to react by pulling a gun and pointing it at someone in a threatening way when you are not in danger physically is unacceptable and frankly ridiculous- whether it was racially motivated or not, which I don't think it was.
They just lost their temper because of belligerent people getting in their faces and harassing them for no good reason.
I mean, I have sympathy for them because noone should have to put up with what the mother and daughter did, but to react by pulling a gun and pointing it at someone in a threatening way when you are not in danger physically is unacceptable and frankly ridiculous- whether it was racially motivated or not, which I don't think it was.
They just lost their temper because of belligerent people getting in their faces and harassing them for no good reason.
Probably. But he's guilty on technicalities at best in my eyes. He shouldn't lose his jobs over this.
Has this been portrayed as racially motivated?
I don't think I could really defend the couple here, they seem to be dealing with the initial argument well, I'm not sure what to make of the whole thing there because we didn't see the actual 8ncident. At best you could give them a bit of leeway for the initial reversing towards the lady behind the car, though it's actually a pretty dangerous thing to do. At that point the car is in position for them to drive off, the actions they take after that are on them.
That's exactly how I see it. From the little we know the mother and daughters are way out of line from start to finish and in my opinion that type of behaviour should be punished but the couple's action after they calmly went into their car is also unacceptable, they aren't in the Wild West.
Yes. I have empathy. I would put myself in their position, they lose their job, got a criminal record, just because it's their bad luck they meet this couple on their day out.
Would we lose our cool if it's us and our wife on that position? Remember, they do not know better. We do
I can understand the need to stop and get out of the car though
I wouldn't want unfinished business of bumping someone with my car left unfinihsed.
In a country like America that could be a lawsuit.
oh, and come on, they're not hititng the girl, the girl was looking for an excuse to continue the fight.
IF the woman who had been bumped by the car had a legal gun and a proper licence would she have been justified in pulling it on the driver as she had just had a car run into her?
I didn't talk about the girl being hit, so I don't know why you mention it. And at no point they care about the girl well being or make sure that they aren't at risk of a lawsuit, they went out to threaten them with guns.
let's just agree to disagree we have a different view on this matter.
I grew up on a council estate in the North of England. I experienced this kind of behaviour occasionally growing up, its hard when someone is looking for a reaction so they can feel justified for their behaviour and to make it physical but best to keep calm.
Not probably, is. People entrusted by the state to carry a firearm are expected to maintain a higher standard of behaviour. That's why brandishing a firearm is illegal. Otherwise, you'd have a lot more of these incidents and a lot more innocent people being shot.
If the woman didn't have a firearm, they'll get into a fight and you can't guarantee what comes after in a fist fight.
You can only deescalate so far, if the other party are looking for a fight there's only a fight or flight. She's pregnant if I read it right? that's a dangerous time to get into a bitch fight.
I'm against guns, you can check my posting history btw.
You could pretend to get hit, get your guns out and shoot them dead.
But if that fact ever comes out you'll be jailed for premeditated murder.
That's a whole lot of whataboutism. It could also be argued that if they weren't carrying firearms they would have stayed in their car and possibly drove off.
A person's opinion on firearms is largely irrelevant here. I love guns but tend to view anyone that carries as fearful.
So can that black mother be a Karen?
She really went off there. Not sure what caused the initial grievance ( I heard her daughter got bumped by the white woman ?accidentally?) but her reaction seemed way over the top relative to what supposedly happened. I guess she felt disrespected and really went after the white folks looking for some sort of satisfaction.
She really went off there. Not sure what caused the initial grievance ( I heard her daughter got bumped by the white woman ?accidentally?) but her reaction seemed way over the top relative to what supposedly happened. I guess she felt disrespected and really went after the white folks looking for some sort of satisfaction.
We'd probably need to know more. Obviously since the car bumped her daughter there's going to be a reaction. I think the current climate has probably made everyone involved a lot more edgy and assertive. This is not a good combination.
in this instance you have justified the lady getting out of the car and waving a loaded gun in peoples faces by the fact that she hit the person and didnt want to get done for a hit and run
by your own logic she has hit somebody so in this instance on the facts according to you would the black lady have been justified in your eyes of pulling out a legal gun and pointing in the white womans face
I'm done.
You clearly thinks the couple is wrong. It's your view. Let's just agree to disagree
Exactly the logic is totally backward and it's not as if they showed any interest for the girl outside of aiming and yelling at them, that's not how you avoid a lawsuit.
Everyone in this video is wrong for different reasons, it's one of the rare cases where we don't have to pick a side. Why some of you want to do it and pick the couple is a mystery.
For clarity I dont think the lady who got bumped would have been justified in waving a loaded gun in somebodys face... to do so would have been a felony assault just like the people who have done it have been charged with
The original bump happened outside/at the door to the Chipotle. The parking lot incident/bump happened because the black family followed the white couple demanding an apology and basically blocked their van from leaving.
That’s the story I’ve read.
The video only alludes to it because the video begins in the parking lot.
Sounds like someone should have de-escalated it before it got out to the parking lot.
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Where are you even going with this? If I get racially abused and don't (for whatever reason) push the the race card (yes the race card as I've seen that accusation on social and on here multiple times) it then becomes my fault?Yeah twitter users have proven time and again their capacity for rational and sound judgement, never jumping to conclusions, never trying to hound people off the face of the internet for innocuous opinions or benign actions.
I skipped through the video because both sides were too pathetic to listen to, but he was clearly far more angry at being flipped off than anything else, since he repeated that about 30 times in the bits I did watch.
Edit: This is what we mean when we say a higher burden of proof seems to be on minorities to prove racial abuse/injustice unless it's literally fully caught on camera (and even then, sometimes it's not enough).
Edit2: Just realised it's an old ass post, I'm sure someone already said what I posted...
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