So where is Modric rated in best CM’s of all time ?

Strelok said:
Oh I might be wrong then. However I read an article where Rio said we decided not to buy Modric because of Kagawa.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20786023/modric-transfer-man-utd-kagawa-ferdinand/amp/
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Ferdinand did say this, I heard him on his podcast series.

He said he spoke to Modric in 2012 after a game v Spurs and asked him if he'd join. Modric was open and said he'd love to be the first Croatian to play for Utd.

Ferdinand got onto Ferguson and Gill but they came back to him and said they'd already agreed a deal with Dortmund for Kagawa, so they wouldn't be going for him.

At the time there was an (outdated) view that Modric could only play ahead of two midfielders and wasn't defensively sound/athletic enough to play as a deeper CM. This mentality actually carried over at Madrid when he first arrived, Mourinho had him sitting on the bench and chose to play Khedira and Alonso at the base of midfield whereas Modric was used as a sub for Ozil (or sometimes Ozil would be moved to the wing to accommodate him)

It was only when Ancelotti arrived at Madrid in 2013 that Modric was trusted to play in a two beside Alonso.
 
HarryP said:
Ferdinand did say this, I heard him on his podcast series.

He said he spoke to Modric in 2012 after a game v Spurs and asked him if he'd join. Modric was open and said he'd love to be the first Croatian to play for Utd.

Ferdinand got onto Ferguson and Gill but they came back to him and said they'd already agreed a deal with Dortmund for Kagawa, so they wouldn't be going for him.

At the time there was an (outdated) view that Modric could only play ahead of two midfielders and wasn't defensively sound/athletic enough to play as a deeper CM. This mentality actually carried over at Madrid when he first arrived, Mourinho had him sitting on the bench and chose to play Khedira and Alonso at the base of midfield whereas Modric was used as a sub for Ozil (or sometimes Ozil would be moved to the wing to accommodate him)

It was only when Ancelotti arrived at Madrid in 2013 that Modric was trusted to play in a two beside Alonso.
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Yeah imo he's telling the truth. No reason for him to make this up I think. If he did would be bad for him if Modric or David Gill say otherwise.
 
adexkola said:
Why is Kroos not rated higher than Modric? :confused:

Same trophy count at club level. Better international record.
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Because he's not as good. Modrić's on ball ability with his control, dribbling, movement, being one of the most press resistant players of all time etc is what sets him apart. He's far more eye catching and generally more involved. All world class of course, but Kroos isn't an all timer for me, though he balanced them well. Modrić is the all timer and Casemiro as the DM was the more important part as a midfield foil.

Also it's very arguable what is better at international level. Kroos won the world Cup with Germany. Modrić got 2nd and 3rd with Croatia... Modrić also is the only non Ronaldo/Messi player to win the Ballon D'Or while they were both on top of their games. That has a ton of weight.
 
adexkola said:
True.

Does Modric being at the hand of several drubbings in El Classico tarnish his record?
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I don't think you followed the logic of the conversation you quoted by comparing a myth to a record.
 
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In the grand scheme of things Modric is somewhere on the same tier as Xavi, a lower tier than Zidane and a higher tier than Scholes.
 
I can't get over how good this transfer turned out for Real.

Can you imagine signing a 27 year old who's already world class and established for the fairly reasonable sum of 30 million pounds(probably 60 million now) and then he keeps going at pretty much the same level for another 11 years(and counting)?! Crazy stuff..
 
Scandi Red said:
I can't get over how good this transfer turned out for Real.

Can you imagine signing a 27 year old who's already world class and established for the fairly reasonable sum of 30 million pounds(probably 60 million now) and then he keeps going at pretty much the same level for another 11 years(and counting)?! Crazy stuff..
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They have had the best bang for buck from that core group of players I think there has been.

The longevity and consistency has been absurd. In fact, seems only father time will conclude their time at the club (Benzema, Modric and Kroos). For the stick they get, Madrid have a superb record and loyalty to performers; we frequently see them serve a decade, which is an incredible feat at giant clubs.
 
adexkola said:
Why is Kroos not rated higher than Modric? :confused:

Same trophy count at club level. Better international record.
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You’re not seriously suggesting he’s been better at international level, are you?
 
adexkola said:
I think many are underrating Kroo's performance in 2014, a tournament he actually won
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He was pretty good, but outshone by his teammate Muller and others(Robben, Messi, James) fairly comfortably in that WC.

No one really outshone Modric in 2018.

And Modric was good in the 2012 Euros and 2022 WC. I think all 3 of those performances trump any of Kroos' at an international stage. I think he's comfortably a tier ahead of him.

I'd put Kroos in the same tier as Scholes/Pirlo.
 
He is f... brillant and its not because we are both croatian. And this should not even be a debate anymore.
Lets put it this way the english are often accused of hyping their players but if Modric's surname was Ramirez, Martinez or Sanchez the hype in Spain would probably be 10 times more. He wasn't paid that much in his earlier years for Real I think
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
He was pretty good, but outshone by his teammate Muller and others(Robben, Messi, James) fairly comfortably in that WC.

No one really outshone Modric in 2018.

And Modric was good in the 2012 Euros and 2022 WC. I think all 3 of those performances trump any of Kroos' at an international stage. I think he's comfortably a tier ahead of him.

I'd put Kroos in the same tier as Scholes/Pirlo.
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That i disagree with. I know he's a byword on here, but Pogba? Mbappe?

Honestly a reason why Modric won the Golden Ball, was that a couple of French players split the vote.
 
adexkola said:
That i disagree with. I know he's a byword on here, but Pogba? Mbappe?

Honestly a reason why Modric won the Golden Ball, was that a couple of French players split the vote.
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Both were pretty good, but do you think they were better than Modric? I'd struggle to see that.

Either way, he was in the running for player of the tournament. Kroos never really had a tournament like that. Even Modric's past WC likely trumps anything Kroos did on the international stage.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Both were pretty good, but do you think they were better than Modric? I'd struggle to see that.

Either way, he was in the running for player of the tournament. Kroos never really had a tournament like that. Even Modric's past WC likely trumps anything Kroos did on the international stage.
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You know how Southgate's record (specifically his 2018 WC) gets denigrated because of the low caliber of teams he faced?
 
adexkola said:
You know how Southgate's record (specifically his 2018 WC) gets denigrated because of the low caliber of teams he faced?
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I'm aware of that, but you can only play the teams in front of you.

And the World Cup brings about a pressure that's just different than in club football. So I wouldn't denigrate anyone's accomplishments at the World Cup. It's the pinnacle of the sport.
 
Modric is clear of Xavi for me.

What he's doing at his age is ridiculous, and he's done it throughout his career. The only thing Xavi will have over him is the international success, but this was achieved with a stacked squad.

Even then I'd encourage you to watch highlights on the Euro 2012 game between Croatia and Spain. Croatia lost 1-0, but Modric was the best player on the pitch by a country mile (and that's despite being on the pitch with the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso, David Silva and Busquets).
 
All time is an ongoing debate, but last 20 years I can't think of anyone better. Not saying he's the best, but there are none better. He's brilliant. Still. he'll be brilliant next season.
 
The Corinthian said:
Modric is clear of Xavi for me.

What he's doing at his age is ridiculous, and he's done it throughout his career. The only thing Xavi will have over him is the international success, but this was achieved with a stacked squad.

Even then I'd encourage you to watch highlights on the Euro 2012 game between Croatia and Spain. Croatia lost 1-0, but Modric was the best player on the pitch by a country mile (and that's despite being on the pitch with the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso, David Silva and Busquets).
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Xavi has dominance of La Liga over him.

One thing i notice about Madrid players... They get the courtesy of having their domestic performances ignored. Class players in England don't get this courtesy. Because why is it that this thread is only getting bumped after occasional great performances in CL cup games, ignoring over 80% of the games they have played, where Madrid are several points behind a side that some would say has no business being first in La Liga?

Also, for a forum obsessed with "only winners count", I've never seen a player get so much credit for performances being on the losing side. I'm glad to see this maturity with regards to Modric, but why is this courtesy not extended to others?
 
adexkola said:
Xavi has dominance of La Liga over him.

One thing i notice about Madrid players... They get the courtesy of having their domestic performances ignored. Because why is it that this thread is only getting bumped after occasional great performances in CL cup games, ignoring over 80% of the games they have played, where Madrid are several points behind a side that some would say has no business being first in La Liga?

Also, for a forum obsessed with "only winners count", I've never seen a player get so much credit for performances being on the losing side. I'm glad to see this maturity with regards to Modric, but why is this courtesy not extended to others?
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Perspective is important... Getting far with Croatia is more impressive than winning the whole thing with a superpower.

Also the whole league thing. I just never got the feeling that Madrid or Barca cared all that much about the league title. The champions league is by far the biggest competition in the world, and success is defined by how a club does in that competition. Your legacy is far more defined by how you performed on the biggest occasions and in big games compared to if you showed up away to Mallorca
 
adexkola said:
Xavi has dominance of La Liga over him.

One thing i notice about Madrid players... They get the courtesy of having their domestic performances ignored. Class players in England don't get this courtesy. Because why is it that this thread is only getting bumped after occasional great performances in CL cup games, ignoring over 80% of the games they have played, where Madrid are several points behind a side that some would say has no business being first in La Liga?

Also, for a forum obsessed with "only winners count", I've never seen a player get so much credit for performances being on the losing side. I'm glad to see this maturity with regards to Modric, but why is this courtesy not extended to others?
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It's a fair point but you allude to it in your answer (bolded).

Occasional great performances in CL just shows how great he is. And how much is occasional anyway? Everytime I see Real Madrid in the CL, he's running the show.

He's won 5 CLs playing against the best of Europe. He's done the same with Croatia getting them to a final and semi final. You could arguably say that he's the greatest cup player in the last 20-30 years (ever?).

The other thing is, I can't quite see Xavi achieving what Modric has (internationally or even in the CL, he may have done but it's not a dead cert) if roles were reversed, but I can see Modric achieving what Xavi did if he was in that late 00s/early 10s Barca team.
 
bosnian_red said:
Perspective is important... Getting far with Croatia is more impressive than winning the whole thing with a superpower.

Also the whole league thing. I just never got the feeling that Madrid or Barca cared all that much about the league title. The champions league is by far the biggest competition in the world, and success is defined by how a club does in that competition. Your legacy is far more defined by how you performed on the biggest occasions and in big games compared to if you showed up away to Mallorca
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Again, this is something that applies in conversations about Modric. I don't see the same grace extended to other players. The Caf has not been that nuanced.

And regarding Madrid not caring... That's very convenient. Because if you are that great, an away game to Mallorca should not be that much of an issue. Winning 3 La Ligas on the trot shouldn't be that much of an issue.
 
adexkola said:
One thing i notice about Madrid players... They get the courtesy of having their domestic performances ignored. Class players in England don't get this courtesy. Because why is it that this thread is only getting bumped after occasional great performances in CL cup games, ignoring over 80% of the games they have played, where Madrid are several points behind a side that some would say has no business being first in La Liga?
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League titles are not as important for judging individual players because the influence of any individual player is diluted in a 38-game season where the weight of the squad is more relevant.

You mention this season of La Liga. He's only started 15 matches. Real Madrid have dropped 4 points in matches where he didn't play (that's almost half of the points gap between them and Barcelona). They have dropped points against Rayo, Girona, and Mallorca due to penalties (handballs) and own goals. Is he supposed to prevent defender handballs?
 
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adexkola said:
Again, this is something that applies in conversations about Modric. I don't see the same grace extended to other players. The Caf has not been that nuanced.

And regarding Madrid not caring... That's very convenient. Because if you are that great, an away game to Mallorca should not be that much of an issue. Winning 3 La Ligas on the trot shouldn't be that much of an issue.
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It's not just a Madrid thing. It's a Barca thing too. Managers get sacked after winning the league as if they failed because of a bad Classico or bad CL run. It's just not the same as in the prem. And the game just isn't as important. Yes teams have off days sometimes. Sometimes you don't win the title. It is more than excused if you repeatedly win the CL though. League consistency without success/big performances in the truly important games is useless for your legacy, while you are forever a great of the game if you regularly standout when all eyes are on you (but maybe go missing when many don't care, maybe not, I have no idea because I don't care about those games and don't watch them and think they have 0 impact on his legacy comparatively to what he does in the big stages).

Also what other players deserve that grace? Many players' international record is ignored because they don't play for a super power. The fact that Modrić has done brilliantly with Croatia despite it being just Croatia is a huge achievement. So of course, playing for England/italy/France/Spain/Germany/Brazil/Arg won't give you the same allowances, as they have always been superpowers.
 
Before the Guardiola era, Barcelona's best season in the 21st century was 2005-2006, where they won the league and CL. Xavi missed the bulk of that season due to injury. So they could dominate without him. Then he won four league titles in five years during a period where Messi was the best player in the world and won 4 Balon d'Ors. Barcelona then won another treble when Xavi was no longer an undisputed starter (and a sub in the CL), and would win 3 out of the 4 titles in the seasons that followed his departure from the club.

This is not to say that Xavi is a bad player, of course he isn't. But it is to point out that Xavi having "dominance of La Liga" is a bit of an illusion. Barcelona had dominance of La Liga, with Xavi and without him.
 
For me, Modric is better than both Pirlo and Scholes.
Xavi is better than him and by default the other two.

Zidane doesn't belong in the conversation as he's more of a wide playmaker (like Iniesta) than a CM.
 
The Corinthian said:
It's a fair point but you allude to it in your answer (bolded).

Occasional great performances in CL just shows how great he is. And how much is occasional anyway? Everytime I see Real Madrid in the CL, he's running the show.

He's won 5 CLs playing against the best of Europe. He's done the same with Croatia getting them to a final and semi final. You could arguably say that he's the greatest cup player in the last 20-30 years (ever?).

The other thing is, I can't quite see Xavi achieving what Modric has (internationally or even in the CL, he may have done but it's not a dead cert) if roles were reversed, but I can see Modric achieving what Xavi did if he was in that late 00s/early 10s Barca team.
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He can't be greater than players that actually won cups he "merely" reached semifinals and finals of. He is not arguably the greatest cup player. Zidane (who I don't have much time for) i would actually say is greater than Modric hands down in this regard
 
The best for me. Still doing it at 37. Not only can he control a game but his link up play is superb and can get a goal out of nothing. We missed a trick with this one. Should be going down as a United great, not a Madrid one in my opinion. Okay, Zidane had more flair but I think Modric's ability to change the pace of a game by either his quick thinking to link-up play or making a burst through midfield is something only a few are able to identify that it is needed at a specific moment and then to actually pull it off is special. Just a joy to watch!

 
I won't compare him to the likes of Luis Suarez, who I never saw play in his prime.

In the CM position, he's the greatest midfielder I've seen in the last 40-odd years I've spent watching football, bar only Xavi.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's not just a Madrid thing. It's a Barca thing too. Managers get sacked after winning the league as if they failed because of a bad Classico or bad CL run. It's just not the same as in the prem. And the game just isn't as important. Yes teams have off days sometimes. Sometimes you don't win the title. It is more than excused if you repeatedly win the CL though. League consistency without success/big performances in the truly important games is useless for your legacy, while you are forever a great of the game if you regularly standout when all eyes are on you (but maybe go missing when many don't care, maybe not, I have no idea because I don't care about those games and don't watch them and think they have 0 impact on his legacy comparatively to what he does in the big stages).

Also what other players deserve that grace? Many players' international record is ignored because they don't play for a super power. The fact that Modrić has done brilliantly with Croatia despite it being just Croatia is a huge achievement. So of course, playing for England/italy/France/Spain/Germany/Brazil/Arg won't give you the same allowances, as they have always been superpowers.
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This isn't a Madrid/Barcelona forum. We are not disputing whether Modric is a good/great/transcendental player (he was and is, and @Scholesy the prophet was right). We are comparing him to other players, some who had greater success at the domestic level. It's a disservice to such players to say that all their dominance shown at that level does not count because their clubs didn't value domestic competition much. Those clubs still competed against legitimate opposition, charging fans to attend... Why shouldn't domestic performances count? They do... If they don't count to you, then that's fine, but overall they do. And they should count to you, being a United fan and all, seeing that the likes of Keane and co are one hit wonders if you ignore all they did at the league/domestic level...
 
Best in is generation and probably in the top three as the greatest midfielder of all time.
 
ScholesyTheWise said:
For me, Modric is better than both Pirlo and Scholes.
Xavi is better than him and by default the other two.

Zidane doesn't belong in the conversation as he's more of a wide playmaker (like Iniesta) than a CM.
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Fair post this... I was also going to highlight difference with ZZ.

As I stated, I would find it difficult to say who is the better player out of Modric, Scholes, Xavi and Pirlo. All quite, quite brilliant.
 
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