So where is Modric rated in best CM’s of all time ?

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Depending on where you draw the line for midfielders, he kind of is

To be fair, I admit you can argue Zidane for best midfielder ever. I wouldn't find that nonsensical and depending on the construction of your team, he might be the best midfielder ever.

5 best players ever though? No shot he belongs in that conversation.

 

[Andrade]

I mean top 10-15 is arguable for both. I wouldn't put Ronaldinho in my top 10 personally and not Zidane either.

I did outline why I consider both overrated. For what it's worth, I am not saying they're not incredible.

If it's talent alone, I'd put them higher, but I can't rate just on talent alone. It's what you do with the talent. I don't consider CR7 one of the 5 most talented players ever for what it's worth and most would found that a laughable stance.

My 5 best are: Messi, Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and CR7. And I constantly flip between Messi, Pele and Maradona for 1st.

If it's talent only though, CR7 wouldn't be in my top 5 and I'd put Ronaldo Nazario in there instead.

Respectfully, the 5 best players you've seen play please. No one that had their career before you started watching football.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He absolutely does not. This is exactly why he's overrated.

He is nowhere near the 5 best players of all-time, but he constantly gets propped into this debate.

His entire career has been overly exaggerated because of his iconic moments(and he has loads of them).

People think he was the best player during the duration of the 1998 WC after his WC final and he wasn't. He had plenty of campaigns where he was wildly inconsistent throughout the season and had seasons where he was outperformed by a good amount of midfielders, but it all gets ignored because of his iconic moments.

Him and Ronaldinho are the most overrated players of all-time(Ronaldinho more-so, because he failed to perform for Brazil). When we're talking about the 5 best players ever or 'GOAT candidates', the standards are extremely high and Zidane falls short of them. If he was more consistent season upon season, he'd be up there, but he wasn't.

I agree on Zidane but the Ronaldinho Brazil comment is well off of failing to perform.

He won the World Cup with them when he was 22, the third best of the 3 star forwards but still excellent.

Before that he played really well in two Confederations Cups for Brazil where he won Golden Boot and Golden Ball in one and MOTM in a final of the other. You can turn your nose up at it if you like but that’s not failing to perform for Brazil.

At his peak, he was left out of the 2004 Copa America as the manager used an experimental squad (out of his control) and 2007, again rested.

So you’re probably basing it all on the 2006 World Cup, where he failed to live up to the hype. Ronaldo and Messi have had similar World Cups to that but they had more chances. And also hadn’t won the trophy at 22 years old, so especially in Messi’s case, kept him motivated all the way to 35.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Respectfully, the 5 best players you've seen play please. No one that had their career before you started watching football.

I've seen full games of those players, but if that doesn't count for you

Messi
CR7
Ronaldo Nazario
Xavi
Zidane

 

[galwayfa]

Pirlo schooled Gerrard in 2012 euros, the one Pirlo dinked it, both were nearing end of careers even though Pirlo 6 yrs older, cheap shot maybe but Modric better than either. Modric though like Pirlo, were they both late top tier developers, Gerrard main man since he was 20ish, Modric going to Madrid at 26/27 ish, Pirlo being released by Milan, Modric is definitely up there when best ever is discussed.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I agree on Zidane but the Ronaldinho Brazil comment is well off of failing to perform.

He won the World Cup with them when he was 22, the third best of the 3 star forwards but still excellent.

Before that he played really well in two Confederations Cups for Brazil where he won Golden Boot and Golden Ball in one and MOTM in a final of the other. You can turn your nose up at it if you like but that’s not failing to perform for Brazil.

At his peak, he was left out of the 2004 Copa America as the manager used an experimental squad (out of his control) and 2007, again rested.

So you’re probably basing it all on the 2006 World Cup, where he failed to live up to the hype. Ronaldo and Messi have had similar World Cups to that but they had more chances. And also hadn’t won the trophy at 22 years old, so especially in Messi’s case, kept him motivated all the way to 35.

He won the WC with them at 22, but outshone by R9 and Rivaldo. I wouldn't consider his overall tournament excellent(think that goal vs England elevates the general standing of his performances), and there wasn't any pressure on him compared to Ronaldo.

I didn't really consider the Confederations Cup, because Kaka played well in their 2009 success and I think he underperformed for Brazil as well.

And the comparison to Ronaldo/Messi re: failing to live up to hype at a World Cup makes sense, but they've achieved/accomplished more at club level, so it's hard to ignore it for Ronaldinho especially when he's to blame himself for not having more chances at the World Cup later on.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Best 'controlling' midfielder you've ever seen despite being routinely dominated in midfield by other midfield units in UCL fixtures.

I mean I don't know how people are inventing things about Modric nowadays.

His longevity is amazing and he's an amazing midfielder, but we don't need to overexaggerate his abilities as some are doing lately.

There was a person on the cafe who scoffed at the notion that Xavi(Xavi of all people)was a better passer than him.

Modric moved to Real in 2012 and in the 10 seasons since then he has won 5 CL's. You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

If you really want to know what a supposedly world class controlling midfielder getting dominated looks like, rewatch Bayern beating Barca 7-0 on aggregate in 2013.

And I would reckon that Modric is a comfortably better passer than Xavi was. Xavi's strength was his positional play and awareness of space but his passing was all about retention and rarely penetrative.

Hell, Modric pulled this off just last season:

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The reason why Pirlo isn’t as good as Modric/Xavi for me, although really good, was that he could be stopped. Park Ji Sung game comes to mind and I always felt he was more vulnerable than the other two. Gattuso was the perfect foil for him of course, doing the donkey work. I don’t think you could stop Xavi or Modric, you couldn’t man mark them, they’d just make you look stupid. And Xavi also schooled Pirlo in the Euro 2012 final, which stands in the memory.

 

[captaincantona]

Best 'controlling' midfielder you've ever seen despite being routinely dominated in midfield by other midfield units in UCL fixtures.

I mean I don't know how people are inventing things about Modric nowadays.

His longevity is amazing and he's an amazing midfielder, but we don't need to overexaggerate his abilities as some are doing lately.

There was a person on the cafe who scoffed at the notion that Xavi(Xavi of all people)was a better passer than him.

You’re a lunatic. One player doesn’t get dominated. A midfield gets dominated and no team has dominated Madrids midfield in the recent future. They have have come out on top but certainly not dominated.He is simply sublime and trustworthy with the ball more than any other player since Xavi and that’s an amazing compliment.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Modric moved to Real in 2012 and in the 10 seasons since then he has won 5 CL's. You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

If you really want to know what a supposedly world class controlling midfielder getting dominated looks like, rewatch Bayern beating Barca 7-0 on aggregate in 2013.

And I would reckon that Modric is a comfortably better passer than Xavi was. Xavi's strength was his positional play and awareness of space but his passing was all about retention and rarely penetrative.

Hell, Modric pulled this off just last season:

This is absolutely laughable. I'm actually amazed people are making this claim.

You showed 1 clip of a great pass. You can do that for every single player ever.

He literally has more assists in 1 season than Modric probably had in 4-5 seasons and you don't think Xavi was a penetrative passer

Xavi's passing is superior to Modric's in every aspect. He has a better controlled short passing game. He has a better pass switching play from 1 flank to another. He is better at incisive passes that break the lines through midfield and even for passes that take out a defensive line. His end product from passes is better as well. He had 30 assists in 1 season from central midfield. I don't think anyone in football history could manage that. Xavi's better from set pieces and can even 'ping' in a ball better than Modric if we're talking about crossing too.

I swear people on here think Xavi just passed it sideways to Messi and Iniesta and was just a passenger in that Spain/Barca side.

Also re: The Bayern demolition of Barcelona in 2013. Xavi wasn't great that game, but they played without a coach and Messi was injured.

Modric was outperformed by every single midfield unit arguably last season in their CL success. Outperformed numerous times in their 2018 success. I will say that Modric was excellent in their 2014 CL success and their 2017 success, but not on the basis of controlling games.

Real Madrid's CL success wasn't on the basis of their midfield controlling/dominating games.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Modric moved to Real in 2012 and in the 10 seasons since then he has won 5 CL's. You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

If you really want to know what a supposedly world class controlling midfielder getting dominated looks like, rewatch Bayern beating Barca 7-0 on aggregate in 2013.

And I would reckon that Modric is a comfortably better passer than Xavi was. Xavi's strength was his positional play and awareness of space but his passing was all about retention and rarely penetrative.

Hell, Modric pulled this off just last season:

No way, Xavi had 20 assists in 08/09, many of them defence splitting passes, proper assists through passing in the middle of the pitch. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you said. Modric is more ball retention, outside of a few exceptional eye catching passes. Xavi has twice as many assists as Modric.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You’re a lunatic. One player doesn’t get dominated. A midfield gets dominated and no team has dominated Madrids midfield in the recent future. They have have come out on top but certainly not dominated.He is simply sublime and trustworthy with the ball more than any other player since Xavi and that’s an amazing compliment.

No one player doesn't get dominated, but if people are making the claim that Modric is the best controlling midfielder ever, then it'll get some push-back.

Plenty of teams last season and even this season dominated Real's midfield re: the bolded.

And I never questioned Modric's general abilities. He's incredible, but people in here are going OTT with his praise. This thread is awfully silent whenever he has a poor game lately.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No way, Xavi had 20 assists in 08/09, many of them defence splitting passes, proper assists through passing in the middle of the pitch. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you said. Modric is more ball retention, outside of a few exceptional eye catching passes. Xavi has twice as many assists as Modric.

Wasn't even 20, I think it was actually 30 assists.

 

[FreckBarca]

Modric moved to Real in 2012 and in the 10 seasons since then he has won 5 CL's. You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

If you really want to know what a supposedly world class controlling midfielder getting dominated looks like, rewatch Bayern beating Barca 7-0 on aggregate in 2013.

And I would reckon that Modric is a comfortably better passer than Xavi was. Xavi's strength was his positional play and awareness of space but his passing was all about retention and rarely penetrative.

Hell, Modric pulled this off just last season:

Yeah, I would say Madrid midfield got dominated in last year's CL. But not in la décima nor in the threepeat.

To me Modric is slightly better than Xavi but I would say Xavi is the better passer.

 

[Andrade]

I've seen full games of those players, but if that doesn't count for you

Messi
CR7
Ronaldo Nazario
Xavi
Zidane

Ok so Zidane is among the top 5 players you've seen but not top 15 all time?

By the way, I reckon Xavi himself would tell you Ronaldinho was a better player than him.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

I think this is one of those 'missing the forest for the trees' situations.
People can claim that Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets always 'dominated' the midfield but the games were lost in other ways.
Meanwhile Modric/Kroos/Casemiro were 'dominated' but the games were won anyway.

But then we could just say "well what good is this definition of 'dominate.' It's not so good at telling me the likelihood of winning the big game."

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Ok so Zidane is among the top 5 players you've seen but not top 15 all time?

By the way, I reckon Xavi himself would tell you Ronaldinho was a better player than him.

Top 15, I don't know. I wouldn't put him top 10 though

Re: the bolded. I mean that's not really saying much. Players says lot of things. Ronaldinho has more individual quality. I find Xavi's quality more conducive to team success though and I'd rate him better on that regard.

 

[giorno]

The reason why Pirlo isn’t as good as Modric/Xavi for me, although really good, was that he could be stopped. Park Ji Sung game comes to mind and I always felt he was more vulnerable than the other two. Gattuso was the perfect foil for him of course, doing the donkey work. I don’t think you could stop Xavi or Modric, you couldn’t man mark them, they’d just make you look stupid. And Xavi also schooled Pirlo in the Euro 2012 final, which stands in the memory.

Xavi was actually weak against man marking too, he just never faced much of it because man marking that barcelona team was a recipe for mega-super-duper-death by Messi

Pirlo faced it a few times later on in his career when he played for worse milan/juventus teams - in his prime for milan teams rarely tried for the same reason Xavi rarely faced it - it wasn't done much in those times and the team was so good man marking one player just meant taking your chances playing 10 vs 10 against a team of superstars - not smart to give more space to the likes of Kaka, Iniesta or Messi

 

[Andrade]

Top 15, I don't know. I wouldn't put him top 10 though

Re: the bolded. I mean that's not really saying much. Players says lot of things. Ronaldinho has more individual quality. I find Xavi's quality more conducive to team success though and I'd rate him better on that regard.

Ok that doesn't make any sense with all due respect.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Ok that doesn't make any sense with all due respect.

I mean you're deliberately trying to antagonize at this point as you did earlier. You can disagree without coming off so antagonizing.

Xavi's inclusion in a team leads to greater team success than Ronaldinho's would for me. I consider him a more cerebral player and consider him the best passer/midfield controller of all time. That's my argument. Ronaldinho can do stuff with a ball that Xavi can't, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to greater team success. And Ronaldinho's apparent lack of professionalism after he reached the top is a notch against him.

 

[Andrade]

He won the WC with them at 22, but outshone by R9 and Rivaldo. I wouldn't consider his overall tournament excellent(think that goal vs England elevates the general standing of his performances), and there wasn't any pressure on him compared to Ronaldo.

I didn't really consider the Confederations Cup, because Kaka played well in their 2009 success and I think he underperformed for Brazil as well.

And the comparison to Ronaldo/Messi re: failing to live up to hype at a World Cup makes sense, but they've achieved/accomplished more at club level, so it's hard to ignore it for Ronaldinho especially when he's to blame himself for not having more chances at the World Cup later on.

Insane nitpicking. Ronaldinho at his peak displayed a level of genius that has been matched by a vanishingly small number of players in the entire history of the game. Yes his peak was short but 99.99999 percent of footballers are simply not capable of doing what he did. Probably the most gifted and artistic footballer ever outside of Maradona.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Insane nitpicking. Ronaldinho at his peak displayed a level of genius that has been matched by a vanishingly small number of players in the entire history of the game. Yes his peak was short but 99.99999 percent of footballers are simply not capable of doing what he did. Probably the most gifted and artistic footballer ever outside of Maradona.

There's always a lot of nitpicking when the argument shifts into 'best ever players'.

And most gifted/artistic outside of Maradona is subjective. I think Messi is easily more gifted than Ronaldinho was.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

Any top five CM list without Zidane and Robson is wrong. Robbo was the best player I've ever seen at Old Trafford. He gave hope to United fans in the 80s when the vermin were winning everything and we had none.

Any top five CM with any of Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Messi in it is wrong. They weren't CMs.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Any top five CM list without Zidane and Robson is wrong. Robbo was the best player I've ever seen at Old Trafford. He gave hope to United fans in the 80s when the vermin were winning everything and we had none.

Any top five CM with any of Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Messi in it is wrong. They weren't CMs.

No one said they were. The poster asked for my general top 5.

 

[Andrade]

There's always a lot of nitpicking when the argument shifts into 'best ever players'.

And most gifted/artistic outside of Maradona is subjective. I think Messi is easily more gifted than Ronaldinho was.

Xavi's not though. And I'm not trying to do anything, what you are saying is not logical. How exactly does having Xavi in a team lead to greater success than having Ronaldinho, a guy who was acknowledged as clearly the best player in the world, which Xavi never was considered?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Xavi's not though. And I'm not trying to do anything, what you are saying is not logical. How exactly does having Xavi in a team lead to greater success than having Ronaldinho, a guy who was acknowledged as clearly the best player in the world, which Xavi never was considered?

I never argued Xavi was more gifted than Ronaldinho.

Ronaldinho wouldn't even have been the best player in the world during Messi's pomp.

I labelled my reasons. It's perfectly logical.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

No one said they were. The poster asked for my general top 5.

I wasn't aiming at you sweetcheeks

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I wasn't aiming at you sweetcheeks

yeah I'm bowing out from this thread.

We can agree to disagree btw @Andrade. We'll keep going in circles and derailing the thread.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Yeah, I would say Madrid midfield got dominated in last year's CL. But not in la décima nor in the threepeat.

To me Modric is slightly better than Xavi but I would say Xavi is the better passer.

Yeah I’m willing to hear an argument for Modric over Xavi but if it’s going to start with “he’s a better passer” then the entire argument falls apart.

 

[Infordin]

Ronaldinho wouldn't even have been the best player in the world during Messi's pomp.

The problem with this argument is that Xavi and Ronaldinho are the same age, both born 1980. So Xavi didn’t take his opportunity to become the best player in the world before Messi exploded, while Dinho did.

 

[SWE-Chucky]

Ronaldinho was never a CM, he was a left forward and can´t not be compered with CMs like Modric, Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes, Zidane etc.

None of the player we have mentioned have been close to Zidane when he was in his prime overall, he could score goals, assist, free kicks, penalties, right foot, left foot great passing abilities, decent in defense, carry the ball, functional technique, lead his teams, and dictate the game as he wanted.

For me, who has been watching football on a regular basis last 25-30 years would easily choose him as the best midfielder.

Behind him i would put Scholes, Xavi, Modric, Iniesta in no particular ranking and then we have at least 20-30 of other optionens like Keane, Lampard, Gerrard, Yaya, De Bruyne, Pirlo, Casemiro etc etc.

 

[Red the Bear]

The reason why Pirlo isn’t as good as Modric/Xavi for me, although really good, was that he could be stopped. Park Ji Sung game comes to mind and I always felt he was more vulnerable than the other two. Gattuso was the perfect foil for him of course, doing the donkey work. I don’t think you could stop Xavi or Modric, you couldn’t man mark them, they’d just make you look stupid. And Xavi also schooled Pirlo in the Euro 2012 final, which stands in the memory.

I don't think that's a fair comparison, first xavi was never going to be a subject of man marking as he played with a much superior player and there was no point in doing it either, they had an equally capable player in Iniesta and the teams he played in were filled to the brim with players intimate with the passing game.

Also I wouldn't hold the 2013 final against pirlo, Italy were dreadful and it was a surprise they got as far as they did.

I rate xavi higher myself as well but I'd say the difference is smaller than most may think (besides them playin essentially diffrent roles) also one thing i certainly give to purlo was being a difference maker, while xavi was a phenomenal system player i doubt he could carry teams like pirlo did towards the end , juve would have been no where near as successful as they've became in that early period of theirs without his influence and Italy certainly wouldn't have reached a Europeans final.

 

[Gazza]

Who gives a sausage, really!? Modric is amazing, good for him, he’s just tryna make his way in life and shit

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Modric moved to Real in 2012 and in the 10 seasons since then he has won 5 CL's. You don't win 50% of the available CL's over the course of a decade by having a midfield that gets dominated.

If you really want to know what a supposedly world class controlling midfielder getting dominated looks like, rewatch Bayern beating Barca 7-0 on aggregate in 2013.

And I would reckon that Modric is a comfortably better passer than Xavi was. Xavi's strength was his positional play and awareness of space but his passing was all about retention and rarely penetrative.

Hell, Modric pulled this off just last season:

or watch modric Vs Ajax

that 2013 team was better than any team modric faced. And he was getting dominated in clasico’s in 2014 and 2015

 

[Cezine]

and madrid won the league prior to modric in 2012 in a record season over a better Barca than any season modric won the league with those respective Barca’s.

modric had what some see as the greatest CL player of all time,

Also Madrid prior to Modric hadn't won a UCL in 12 years, and got past final 16 round just once in 9 years. With Modric they won 5 UCLs in 8 years. Croatia went from not getting past group stages since 1998 to being 2nd in 2018 and 3rd in 2022.

 

[Devil81]

No he didn't.

Honestly Keane is my favourite player of all time. But there were games he was untouchable against United.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

I think Kroos has become underrated compared to Modric. A lot of debating who was the better between Xavi and Modric as controlling midfielders, but imo Kroos was usually the more metronomic player in that Real Madrid team, and the one that really focused on providing a well executed foundation in terms of volume and accuracy of simple/medium difficulty passes. If you were comparing that midfield to the Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets one, i'd put Kroos closest to xavi in role and strengths.

 

[mshnsh]

Zidane is overrated based on iconic moments/a handful of games.

Ronaldinho was a genius. An embodiment of football associated with Brazil. He wasn't a midfielder, rather a classic number 10.

Between Xavi and Modric, it is close and a matter of personal preference. Xavi is the quintessential tiki taka footballer, Modric is a more dynamic midfielder. Kroos is more similar in style to Xavi.

 

[GatoLoco]

or watch modric Vs Ajax

Modric vs Ajax is a horrible example as he was one of the very few players at Madrid performing in that game.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

Zidane is overrated based on iconic moments/a handful of games.

Ronaldinho was a genius. An embodiment of football associated with Brazil. He wasn't a midfielder, rather a classic number 10.

Between Xavi and Modric, it is close and a matter of personal preference. Xavi is the quintessential tiki taka footballer, Modric is a more dynamic midfielder. Kroos is more similar in style to Xavi.

Give me Scholes over the pair of them.