So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Give it to Mou. Like Gareth, he will use the same negative tactics to reach the final. Unlike Gareth, he will actually win a final.
 
I'm torn.

Can't argue with the results, but his tactics seem quite cowardly, and he is unwilling to make substitutions. I'd give him another shot at it - he's done better than any other manager in my lifetime - but I wish he'd be more adventurous.
 
The easy draws England have had in the last two tournaments, has clearly been the biggest factor in England reaching the semi and final. Too many people ignore the strength of opposition in these things.

Spain and Belgium would very likely have both dumped England out, then you could easily be looking at another r16 or quarter final exit.

Can you even imagine if the 2018 side would have come up against the 2002 Brazil side?

Southgate has done a good job building a positive atmosphere and that's about it. Everything else he's done ranges from mediocre to ludicrous.

Unfortunately I expect he'll be found out badly as soon as we end up with a tougher draw again.
 
Trying things out in the World Cup qualifiers whether that be looking at new players or actually using a system that allows us to get the best out of our forward players like Grealish, Foden, Sancho etc. He can't just change things before the tournament and expect it to work straight away against the better teams it needs time to perfect it first.
 
justboy68 said:
The easy draws England have had in the last two tournaments, has clearly been the biggest factor in England reaching the semi and final. Too many people ignore the strength of opposition in these things.

Spain and Belgium would very likely have both dumped England out, then you could easily be looking at another r16 or quarter final exit.

Can you even imagine if the 2018 side would have come up against the 2002 Brazil side?

Southgate has done a good job building a positive atmosphere and that's about it. Everything else he's done ranges from mediocre to ludicrous.

Unfortunately I expect he'll be found out badly as soon as we end up with a tougher draw again.
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You mean facing the likes of Croatia, Denmark, Germany and Italy isn’t a tough draw?

Don’t forget we were two penalty kicks away from winning it.
 
Absolute joke he's getting a knighthood. Getting to the semi final/final with this squad was always achievable, it's not a miracle.
 
Southgate is undoubtably a defensive manager , and sets his teams up to be solid and safe but I diagree that the squad is so good that he should definitely reach a semi or final , football doesn`t work like that . France were most peoples favourite with a quality squad so why didn`t they get to the final .
Venables 96 team was better than this team Gazza, Ince, Shearer, Sheringham, Pearce, Seaman, Adams and Sven had Neville,Cole, Ferdinand,Campbell, Rooney,Beckham,Scholes,Gerrard and Lampard they never achieved what Southgate did.
I do think he will always struggle to really go for it like a lot of us want him to but his cautious approach also does have his benefits . We have to be careful what we wish for though cos we have had some dark days with McClaren, Hodgson, Capello and it could go pear shaped for this young group of players with our FA .
Though I think Southgate has his limitations and I doubt he will ever change I do believe he deserves a shot at the world cup and we should get behind him.
 
Unpopular opinion - despite having many good young players in the squad, once Kane is past his best England will struggle to compete for Euros/WC. I honestly think that Sunday was the closest they will come to winning silverware in my lifetime.

I really think his decision making cost the trophy. GS cannot be sacked at this point, purely for reaching a Semis + Final.
 
I’d give him a 20 year contract at The FA. Let him do whatever the hell he wants, as long as he makes England Football Team, and all football in the country, better.

Sadly, the first stage of that task is to invent a hybrid coach/media role for himself, and find a top level coach that he can work with for the next 3 tournaments. The new guy picks the players and all game related matters. Gareth ha strong steer on squad selection and leads all media briefings.

Nope. I don’t know who. I don’t know how it would work. But we’ve got to stop pretending that Club Managers make good long-term international managers. That’s really rare.

Get an overarching vision. Have Southgate ensure continuity. Bring in the best managers in football for two cycles and change them if they don’t want to carry on, or they fail.

The press in this country teaches the nation how to treat our players. Gareth beat them at their shitty game. I’d hate to see that given up. But we need a better mind on the touch line making critical decisions.
 
As frustrating as his decision making was in the final, he is still the most successful england manager after sir Ramsey, the big concern is if we go with another manager the fa will mess it up, I mean southgate took over from bloody sam Allardyce and before him was roy hodgson!

The hope is that southgate will have grown and learned a lot from the final loss, plus if sancho can perform for united like he did for Dortmund then I can't see how he won't be first right winger come the world cup, there is also Greenwood who could easily be in the world cup squad if he produces the same performances that he has over the past two seasons.
 
He'll get another shot. He's got to be braver next time though. Greenwood and Bellingham will be another year older. If Greenwood has a great season he could possibly be England's number 9. I thought Kane was terrible and lacks pace.

He should of brought Rashford and Sancho on at the beginning of extra time, and really tested the ageing Italian defence.
 
rimzy said:
You mean facing the likes of Croatia, Denmark, Germany and Italy isn’t a tough draw?

Don’t forget we were two penalty kicks away from winning it.
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Italy hardly count do they as that's the final. Clearly whoever comes out of the far tougher side of the draw is going to be a top side. By easy draw I'm talking route to the final. So other than that, yes pretty clearly an easy draw. Beating Germany sounds good but everyone knows that was a poor Germany side who turned it on for one game against Portugal and looked underwhelming in every other match. Quarter final against Ukraine and semi against Denmark? Any serious team in history would bite your hand off and laugh all the way to the final at that. They still had to get the job done and hats off to them, but don't count on that luck continuing.
 
fergies coat said:
He'll get another shot. He's got to be braver next time though. Greenwood and Bellingham will be another year older. If Greenwood has a great season he could possibly be England's number 9. I thought Kane was terrible and lacks pace.
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We lost the final for the same reasons we lost in the WC semi-final. If he didn’t learn then, I can’t see why he’d learn now.
 
It is unlikely we will do so well in a world cup in the heat in Qatar but at least the squad is young with a few additions to come in. It could be worse, we could have an ageing squad where our top players are coming to the end of their careers . Things are definitely looking up with the English youth coming through. Hopefully Rashford,Greenwood and Sancho hit it off as a front 3.
 
Realistically, England won't win anything under Gareth Southgate....which is sad because it's a waste of generational talent.

But what fans say doesn't matter, it's up to the players to start speaking out.

Media sources are stating many of them were shocked that he asked a inexperienced 19 year old to take the penalty shot over Grealish and Sterling...which I thought was weird to.

Most of the English squad have played with top level managers...so I think they know that Southgate falls short...but if they want him gone...they need to speak out, Harry Kane isn't getting any younger.
 
Commentary said:
Realistically, England won't win anything under Gareth Southgate....which is sad because it's a waste of generational talent.

But what fans say doesn't matter, it's up to the players to start speaking out.

Media sources are stating many of them were shocked that he asked a inexperienced 19 year old to take the penalty shot over Grealish and Sterling...which I thought was weird to.

Most of the English squad have played with top level managers...so I think they know that Southgate falls short...but if they want him gone...they need to speak out, Harry Kane isn't getting any younger.
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Terrible post, I mean why would the players want him out after getting to a world cup semi and then a world cup final with him. You do realise Harry Kane, Raheem Sterling and Kyle Walker played in the Iceland match and you think they should turn on their manager. England have just reached their first euro final with one of the youngest squads in the tournament and you want the manager out . Wow.
 
Southgate must be pretty happy that all discussion is focussed on hooligans and racists and his s**ty tactics and game management that cost the game is being ignored by media.
Last media talk about him was how awesome he was to take England to finals
 
This season we've seen the pinnacle of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Gareth Southgate. They cannot overcome the final hurdle. A manager who is more tactically adept, more proactive in their game plan but also reactive when changes need to be made. This manager will always defeat Ole and Southgate. I think ruthlessness is needed, thank Southgate for his accomplishment, but a change must be made if there is hope to actually win.
 
Watch him reach WC semi final through a shitty group and another set of ridiculously easy draws, before getting exposed against one of the big guns.
 
Southgate got to a world cup semi and a Euro's final, BUT (like we would ask whenever City reach domestic cup finals) who actually were the opposition?

World Cup
Games won: Tunisia, Panama, Colombia (penalties) and Sweden
Games lost: Belgium, Croatia, then Belgium again

Euro's
Games won: Croatia, Czech, Germany (:wenger:), Ukraine and Sweden
Did not beat: Scotland and Italy

If he's in charge next year better hope for more Panama, Slovakia, Iran and less of Uruguay, France and South Korea
 
KirkDuyt said:
He got you closer to winning the Euro's than any England manager in history. How is everyone this mad at him. It's not like you're Germany or France, no one expect you to be this good. He deserves a statue.
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we have one of our most talented squads and had a clean run to the final almost. We don't want the talent to go to waste by not having a good enough conductor. He shown his lack of nous in 2 tourneys in a row by losing control of a game after going ahead early. If we gonna sit deep then you have to counter.
 
Acole9 said:
Absolute joke he's getting a knighthood. Getting to the semi final/final with this squad was always achievable, it's not a miracle.
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Wait what? I thought that was some meme. He is getting knighted for absolutely nothing :lol: :lol:

Could as well knight Shaw, Maguire, Kane, Sterling and Stones.
 
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rimzy said:
You mean facing the likes of Croatia, Denmark, Germany and Italy isn’t a tough draw?

Don’t forget we were two penalty kicks away from winning it.
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It's the same as what I said in the OP. It depends if you just look at it as a stat or look under the hood.

Croatia - Lost when he faced them in the World Cup. Beat them this time around but I'm sure you'll agree that the Croatia team is on it's last legs.
Denmark - Won via a dubious penalty. England did however outplay them but Denmark is a team England should beat comfortably when you compare the two squads.
Germany - Germany was a good win but that is a shadow of the past German teams. Just look at their results leading up to the tournament, which included a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of Spain. They were bottom of their group until the last 5 minutes of their game against Hungary.
Italy - A top tier team and England got manhandled in that match.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
It's the same as what I said in the OP. It depends if you just look at it as a stat or look under the hood.

Croatia - Lost when he faced them in the World Cup. Beat them this time around but I'm sure you'll agree that the Croatia team is on it's last legs.
Denmark - Won via a dubious penalty. England did however outplay them but Denmark is a team England should beat comfortably when you compare the two squads.
Germany - Germany was a good win but that is a shadow of the past German teams. Just look at their results leading up to the tournament, which included a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of Spain. They were bottom of their group until the last 5 minutes of their game against Hungary.
Italy - A top tier team and England got manhandled in that match.
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I wouldn’t say manhandled. It sounds stupid but I think had we not scored in the second minute we’d have won.

I’m not Southgates biggest fan, I think he’s done well since coming in, compared to the last 5 previous managers. The next 18 months is massive, we need to implement a style that compliments the likes of Sancho, Grealish and Foden.

I’ll judge him after Qatar.
 
el3mel said:
Holy shit I couldn't believe till I actually searched. He's really getting knighted !!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/07/11/gareth-southgate-knighted-putting-smile-faces/

This is one of the most football news I have heard last few years.
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Media completely ignoring how his tactics and refusal to bring in attacking players cause the team to lose the finals. I mean they wrote pages and pages about how awesome he is to get to finals (though ignoring the struggles against hapless Denmark), but then after the finals it is only about racism and at most that last penalty.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Southgate must be pretty happy that all discussion is focussed on hooligans and racists and his s**ty tactics and game management that cost the game is being ignored by media.
Last media talk about him was how awesome he was to take England to finals
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To be fair, we are talking about the most important thing and thats the last thing that he would like to be talking about.

He is a statesman. He’d rather the country behaved itself and he was in the firing line. Don’t suggest otherwise. All the evidence is against you.
 
I can't believe he's actually getting knighted. We haven't won anything...

If he was decent, he'd take off that knighthood just like those 2nd place medals :lol:
 
I don't think it'll get better for Southgate. He's got to a world cup semi and a euros final and that can't be forgotten, but that performance has been heavily reliant on very favourable draws and his decision making was a major factor in failing that final hurdle.

I'd be surprised if England reached a final or semi final at the world cup, but getting rid of him at this point would be a bold decision.
 
I think England got insane expectations. A manager reaches the final and fail on pens. Sack him!

Never won the Euros they have , but shall still be seen as huge favorites to win it every year?

England had a great tournaments apart from the pens. Southgate done a great job. He deserves to coach the world cup too.
If he fail in that one maybe time to try someone different .
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
I think England got insane expectations. A manager reaches the final and fail on pens. Sack him!

Never won the Euros they have , but shall still be seen as huge favorites to win it every year?

England had a great tournaments apart from the pens. Southgate done a great job. He deserves to coach the world cup too.
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That is a very linear way of thinking. Ease of the draws is being ignored. Also the fact that they struggled to reach finals and reached because of a dubious penalty decision.
And ignore that the final game was there to be won, if some attacking players came in early.

Paul_Scholes18 said:
If he fail in that one maybe time to try someone different
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What is failure here? Win it, semis?
 
OK, knighting him is the other end of the spectrum. Who the feck knights a dude who almost won a trophy.
 
Acole9 said:
Absolute joke he's getting a knighthood. Getting to the semi final/final with this squad was always achievable, it's not a miracle.
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England will knight a coward, after his defeat caused largely by him being a coward.

It's brilliantly hilarious tbh :lol: @Judas
 
He deserves a shot at next year's World Cup though I think his tenure peaked at Euro 2020 and that it's all downhill from here.
 
He's not a bad manager, the defensive set-up is good for knockout tournaments and the shape has been good.

But he does either need help with in-game management or needs to learn from his mistakes.

Only 2 subs prior to the 119th minute after the players had played so many games coming off of a long-season, I get you have favourites but you need fresh legs. Kane and Sterling were gone after the 70th minute, compared to the Italians who took off key players like Verrati and made 6 subs.

Likewise it was a mistake to not bring Grealish and a pacey attacker in earlier against an old Italian defence. It's good being defensive, but it's bad being too defensive. Having 2 DMs and then also playing Mount and Trippier for their defensive qualities, it's a bit too much. For me a player like Grealish has to play especically in that defensive setup, he's far to good to be on the bech. He'd have helped massively in relieving pressure, winning fouls, keeping the ball and creating chances.

I think he has been somewhat lucky too with the draws, in this tournament we only really faced Germany as a proper threat prior to the final. Being too defensive against the likes of France etc regularly over a period of ten games you'll lose more than you win.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
That is a very linear way of thinking. Ease of the draws is being ignored. Also the fact that they struggled to reach finals and reached because of a dubious penalty decision.
And ignore that the final game was there to be won, if some attacking players came in early.



What is failure here? Win it, semis?
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No games are easy at a Euro. It is this disrespect English fans have that they are much better than everyone else or should be.
Yes England is one of the best sides, but just cause England got a good side doesn't mean everyone else is shit and it is easy for England.
Just cause England did not win do not show that they have done much worse than expected.
Look at Englands historical results and you see that England have not reached many finals or won it more than once.

I think English fans think they shall win every game easily even against top sides etc. It does not normally work like that in tournaments. Games are often tight and hard to win.
Italy grinded out wins the best and best on pens so they won it. Although past the group stage they did not really dominate.
Spain needed pens too to reach semi final. Denmark impressed a lot, but did struggle in the group stage granted it was due to the Eriksen situation they lost vs Finland.

I think it is fair to be critical about Englands attack in the group stage scoring only 2 goals. Although overall this tournament England have been good in both directions.

Southgate should probably have gone a bit more attacking with his subs, but fair to say had England lost on a counter he would have been attacked for being too attacking.
Also yes the guy taking the pens was stupid with hindsight, but we do not know which players are good at taking pens and want to do it. Rashford is normally good on pens for example and Sancho has taken pens too.

Given the pressure on the England guys I think going harder to win the game before the pens make sense. So that is probably a huge error. Ole made the same error for us, but his biggest error was trusting De Gea with his poor pk save record.
 
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He clearly has the dressing room on-side but would really benefit from a tactically astute assistant - what's Carlos Queiroz up to these days?
 
Could really do with bellingham moving to the premier league either this season or the next and grealish to move to a champions league side.

If the likes of Bellingham, grealish, greenwood and sancho are delivering on the biggest stage at club level for the likes of liverpool, united, city or Chelsea, he will really have his hand forced to feature them more heavily in England match day first 11
 
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