So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Southgate being knighted just shows how poor our mentality is the current era. Not just in football. He'll continue at England for the foreseeable future. Not good enough for any top club.

Such a knighthood should be a catalyst to scrap the honours system honestly. One thing our Yank friends have got right from day one is not having titles or sirs etc at all.

It's archaic, puts people above others and has no place in the 21st century for me.
 
duffer said:
Semis in the World Cup in 18
Losing finalists in Euro 20

It's a pretty clear and obvious progression that England will win the world cup next year.
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It’s coming home :drool:
 
He'll stay on for the next two tournaments, England will do well enough (despite Southgate) without actually winning anything and you'll have wasted this whole generation of talent.
 
England could go for a more progressive manager like Graham Potter. Southgate somehow managed to stay above the tabloid and WAG circus that almost always sunk the past English teams, which is an achievement even if he is a coward as a manager.
 
We have arguably some of the best young talents in the world and all he's achieved in doing with them is destroying their confidence in themselves and turned them into scapegoats for the whole country to abuse.

Will be a travesty if gets another pop at doing the same at the WC.
 
I think he needs to look at his limitations, which is his tactical in-game management. If he is going to progress he needs to bring in a coach who can help him with that through the game
 
Buster15 said:
And who are you saying should replace him then.
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Give it Conte. I want a manager with the kind of passion on the touchline that could be easily mistaken for the murderous intent of a psycho

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I think he is a bit like Ole. A mediocre coach/tactician, but a good man motivator and seems to not care much about the egos. Despite the awful style of play, this England has been the most successful in half a century, so I see him continuing with England.

I do not see him surviving a full season in EPL if he eventually takes a job there.
 
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Kaizane said:
We have arguably some of the best young talents in the world and all he's achieved in doing with them is destroying their confidence in themselves and turned them into scapegoats for the whole country to abuse.

Will be a travesty if gets another pop at doing the same at the WC.
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Destroying their confidence? In what world is leading them to the final 4 in a World Cup followed by the final 2 in a European Championship destroying their confidence? What a ridiculous post.

When they are able to look back on these last two tournaments, they have achieved more than any England team in 50 years, they should rightly be proud of themselves and be safe in the knowledge that they are all young and will improve as a group going forward.
 
He's done something that nobody else has been able to do. I also don't buy it being luck because we got to the Semi Final in the World Cup as well... so he's doing something right. One of the pundits said that if the teams had played with the other teams manager England would have won the game 2 or 3 - nil. Interesting to think about. I'm not sure I disagree. I'm not sure why he doesn't just trust the defenders he plays like our defence is rubbish - which is what annoys me thinking that they need protection. In actual fact it's one of the best defences in the tournament with champions league winners, finalists etc throughout. Just let them be. Would be very interesting to see what an attacking manager would do with this team.
 
JB7 said:
Destroying their confidence? In what world is leading them to the final 4 in a World Cup followed by the final 2 in a European Championship destroying their confidence? What a ridiculous post.

When they are able to look back on these last two tournaments, they have achieved more than any England team in 50 years, they should rightly be proud of themselves and be safe in the knowledge that they are all young and will improve as a group going forward.
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Ok then, mate. So all the online abuse they're now getting will have zero impact on their mental health and confidence and the complete mismanagement of them leading up to the shootout was all their own doing? You're disillusioned if you think this toxic country will let them forget any time soon.

Nice sentiment to reach a couple semis and a final though, right?

Get a grip!
 
More dull and probably even more conservative than what Big Sam would have done.

Ooooooh 5 at the back, groundbreaking!
 
A cynic in me says he was a coward as the game progressed and absolutely shat it in extra time cause he knew penalties will be seen as a lottery lost.

Then he told the two players from the bench to take penalties straight off so that if it didn't come off he would be vindicated and have ready-made scapegoats.

That's only a cynical part, the truth is he probably shat it cause he's Southgate.
 
MadMike said:
Give it Conte. I want a manager with the kind of passion on the touchline that could be easily mistaken for the murderous intent of a psycho

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Ok. Didn't think of him. But yes, he is extremely passionate. Can't argue with that.
But Southgate has a much wider role with England than just managing the mens team. And I am not at all sure that Conte would be a good fit for that.
One of the biggest achievements of Southgate has been to develop a team ethos for England. Excellent players like Scholes and Carrick hated the atmosphere.
Yes Southgate has some limitations. Who doesn't.
But in my view (and that of the England set up) he is the best fit for the role he is asked to fulfill.
 
The problem is he is exactly the Manager the FA want and need. No drama, no controversy in the media. Got England to a WC Semi and a Euro Final.

My problem with Southgate (and I was willing to look past it if we won the Euros) is that he makes us play super boring, negative, low scoring football. We're set up to frustrate other teams in a similar way Italy used to play. And it's really hard watching when you look at the attacking talent we have, you don't see the attack being overloaded and tearing teams up like they should. Kane, Grealish, Saka, Sancho, Sterling, Mount, Rashford.

I believed in this team which honestly is why I thought we'd win last night. But I knew, I just knew Southgate's tactics (or lack of) would bite us in the ass at some point. We won't be rid of him and it's a shame because I do think this team could perform much better under another manager. I'm not saying "any other manager would do better" but a world class manager would take England to new levels in my opinion.

Side note as a United fan - Luke Shaw & Harry Maguire have been absolute beasts in this squad.
 
Kaizane said:
Ok then, mate. So all the online abuse they're now getting will have zero impact on their mental health and confidence and the complete mismanagement of them leading up to the shootout was all their own doing? You're disillusioned if you think this toxic country will let them forget any time soon.

Nice sentiment to reach a couple semis and a final though, right?

Get a grip!
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So what do you suggest Southgate did then as to avoid the players taking racial abuse online from the scumbags of the world? Forfeit instead of letting the players take penalties? Only sent up white players to take penalties?
 
We need a more tactically astute manager for the next World Cup, somebody who can get them to keep hold of the ball better. We’re playing in the middle of the desert in fifty degrees celsuis so we can’t rely on a midfield build on hard work and pressing.
 
Waking up with screams and night terrors thinking he could replace Ole if this season goes tits up
 
Buster15 said:
Ok. Didn't think of him. But yes, he is extremely passionate. Can't argue with that.
But Southgate has a much wider role with England than just managing the mens team. And I am not at all sure that Conte would be a good fit for that.
One of the biggest achievements of Southgate has been to develop a team ethos for England. Excellent players like Scholes and Carrick hated the atmosphere.
Yes Southgate has some limitations. Who doesn't.
But in my view (and that of the England set up) he is the best fit for the role he is asked to fulfill.
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Give Southgate the rest and let Conte manage the men's team then. Managing the seniors is a big enough task to not have that person do anything else.
 
Revan said:
I think he is a bit like Ole. A mediocre coach/manager, but a good man motivator and seems to not care much about the egos. Despite the awful style of play, this England has been the most successful in half a century, so I see him continuing with England.

I do not see him surviving a full season in EPL if he eventually takes a job there.
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Feel like it's nailed on he'll go back to Palace at some point, seems a tailor made minimal pressure setup for his eventual Prem return, albeit if they're still in the league by the time Vieiras had his go at it
 
Hopefully he keeps learning as a manager and building his team, which is moving in the right direction. Defensively England look up there with the best in the world. That back four looks there to stay, which suggests TAA will need to adapt in becoming a wing back. Walker has been very impressive as a defender, so is near impossible to drop. The United-City defence looks solid and Pickford reserves his best for international football. Despite the lack of silverware, Kane has the numbers to suggest he is world class, and Sterling has been very good for a few years for England. There's still another spot in the forward line up for grabs though. There's no getting around midfield being the problem for England with a lack of players to fit in a double pivot or midfield three. We need others than just Bellingham to come in there.

As much as England have a lot of talented attacking midfielders and wingers, none of them yet are world class or even key players for a club side regularly winning big trophies. The closest is Foden, but he's still very much protected by Pep, and Mount has only won the one cup, whilst showing his importance to his new manager. Talent is one thing, but being able to deliver under pressure is another matter. They will all be better players for the experience of this tournament and in another 18 months. Everyone made this mistake with Germany a few years ago and France too; just search for "Germany/France squad depth" on Twitter images. Having lots of talented players is only one ingredient. They now need to develop in being reliable big game players who can be entrusted in perform a particular function in a wider team.
 
JB7 said:
So what do you suggest Southgate did then as to avoid the players taking racial abuse online from the scumbags of the world? Forfeit instead of letting the players take penalties? Only sent up white players to take penalties?
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No, he should have put them on earlier so they could have at least got a feel for the game and had a touch of the ball, or God forbit, try to actually win the game before it even got penalties!

He put Rashford on at RB in a European final with seconds to go. Sancho's only touch was his penalty kick. There was also a very real chance that Saka's penalty kick would have been the exact scenario he found himself, all three of their situations is just complete incompetence from Southgate.

Not even going to entertain what you said about white players. I'd be saying the exact same thing if it had been Foden or Grealish, or anyone else brought on with seconds to go, to take a penalty in their country's first ever European final. Not sure if you've played football at any sort of level but it matters and Southgate should have known that whether they volunteered or not.
 
Think he’s taken them as far as he can but will remain in the job.
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
We need a more tactically astute manager for the next World Cup, somebody who can get them to keep hold of the ball better. We’re playing in the middle of the desert in fifty degrees celsuis so we can’t rely on a midfield build on hard work and pressing.
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The stadiums are air-conditioned but I agree with you
 
Nytram Shakes said:
I think he needs to look at his limitations, which is his tactical in-game management. If he is going to progress he needs to bring in a coach who can help him with that through the game
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He handpicked Graeme Jones that tosspot as a coach. The man nearly got my beloved Luton relegated from the Championship a couple years back and is now at Newcastle being as useless as ever. I didn't realise he's a part of the England setup and I chocked on my drink when I saw him giving instructions to Southgate during the game. At that moment, I knew England are done.

Also, the sight of Atomic Kitten reuniting to sing lyrics like "Southgate you're the one, you still turn me on, football's coming home again" really tempted lady luck to regret all the help she's been giving England :lol:

But on a serious note, if you get rid of Southgate, who do you realistically get? Potter? Howe? None have really proven much and will get slaughtered if they don't get to the finals of the World Cup. You can go foreign again but that hasn't worked out well in the past...

There's not many options I can think of that are good enough or would even want the job.

Giggsy 'till the end of the next campaign?
 
Kaizane said:
No, he should have put them on earlier so they could have at least got a feel for the game and had a touch of the ball, or God forbit, try to actually win the game before it even got penalties!

He put Rashford on at RB in a European final with seconds to go. Sancho's only touch was his penalty kick. There was also a very real chance that Saka's penalty kick would have been the exact scenario he found himself, all three of their situations is just complete incompetence from Southgate.

Not even going to entertain what you said about white players. I'd be saying the exact same thing if it had been Foden or Grealish, or anyone else brought on with seconds to go, to take a penalty in their country's first ever European final. Not sure if you've played football at any sort of level but it matters and Southgate should have known that whether they volunteered or not.
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So you can post sense then. If you'd said this initially I wouldn't have taken issue with it. I did not agree with the penalty takers and totally agree those players should have come on earlier if they were coming on to take penalties, but it is going way too far to say the manager be sacked and that he is "destroying their confidence in themselves". He clearly made a decision based on penalty performances in training - that none of us see - but it did not pay off. Those three players will be fine, United and Arsenal as clubs and fanbases will get around them and they'll be firing again next season I have no doubt about it whatsoever.
 
JB7 said:
So you can post sense then. If you'd said this initially I wouldn't have taken issue with it. I did not agree with the penalty takers and totally agree those players should have come on earlier if they were coming on to take penalties, but it is going way too far to say the manager be sacked and that he is "destroying their confidence in themselves". He clearly made a decision based on penalty performances in training - that none of us see - but it did not pay off. Those three players will be fine, United and Arsenal as clubs and fanbases will get around them and they'll be firing again next season I have no doubt about it whatsoever.
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I don't think it was for the lack of sense in my post, but you're lack of ability to discern what was being said, without it being spoon-fed to you.

Of course, I was not advocating for his sacking on the basis of destroying their confidence alone, but his decision making, which led to those three players finding themselves in a position they should have never been in, in the first place, on the count of the embarrassment of attacking options available to him to win it in the regulated time and his complete risk-averse approach, is what should get him the sack.

And for what it's worth, had he lost the game taking such risks, then he'd have earnt a shot at the WC in my eyes.
 
Ideally he should be sacked. But the long long articles written about brilliance of Southgate in every newspaper before the finals. will make FA wary.
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
We need a more tactically astute manager for the next World Cup, somebody who can get them to keep hold of the ball better. We’re playing in the middle of the desert in fifty degrees celsuis so we can’t rely on a midfield build on hard work and pressing.
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horsechoker said:
The stadiums are air-conditioned but I agree with you
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Lads, the world cup is in November December. Doha is not 50c in the summertime, never mind in December.
 
The man deserves credit for taking England to the WC semis and the Euro finals, but there is no debate he bottled it against Italy. The interesting question is not whether he'll be sacked, but whether he's capable of learning from the mistakes he made yesterday. To the extent that he blames himself only for who he picked for the pk's and not his in-game manager, we have our answer.
 
tenpoless said:
I can't speak too much because I'm not English and I'm not drunk.
But really though, is it normal to play with 6-7 defensive minded players on the pitch when you have this many talents up front?
(Jordan Henderson is shite, ignore him)
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This is the common lazy reply, what are you actually suggesting? Which players, which formation? Just saying "look we have lots of attacking players" doesn't mean much, anyone can do that. You gotta look at the team and really be honest about what successful approach can we have.
 
I think his general direction for the team, his plan A, is probably the best option we had. I think his adaption to things, subs, and who he picked for penalties really bad.

Hes not amazing, but I am not sure who we would get who would do better, and wouldn't be a risk.
 
Hammondo said:
Why is his treatment of Greenwood bad?
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Calling up an 18 year old to the national team, making him do a press conference which he has no experience or training with, and then humiliating the kid when he made a judgement of error by breaking covid protocols by sending him home and then publicly rebuking him in front of the media.
 
A 7-2-1 tactic seems really cautious and too defensive, but it has delivered.

Against Italy, his stubbornness cost him. He was very, very predictive and Mancini knew exactly what's going to happen.

If he had chosen to bomb Italy's wings (Emerson and Di Lorenzo have been a bit meh overall in defensive part) with Sancho/Saka and put Grealish in no 10, then that would have been ballsy, but still reasonable.

His subs were stupid - why sub Henderson? What's the thing with subbing out players who weren't in starting XI? Maybe his choice to sub in Sancho and Rash was 4D chess to damage United (lol) and securing his buttocks from the press, putting the blame onto them. *wink wink*
 
Kaos said:
Calling up an 18 year old to the national team, making him do a press conference which he has no experience or training with, and then humiliating the kid when he made a judgement of error by breaking covid protocols by sending him home and then publicly rebuking him in front of the media.
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"making him do a press conference which he has no experience or training with" Everyone has to do it a first time, training with?

"then humiliating the kid when he made a judgement of error by breaking covid protocols"
He humiliated himself. Hopefully it will help him grow up a bit.
 
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