So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Abraxas said:
Southgate might have a lot of talent to work with, but it's not necessarily evenly spread through the squad. I think that gets forgotten a bit and you have to consider it when we say England should be doing this or that or producing amazing performances and that the manager is the sole reason they are not.

Yes the forward and wing areas are very strong, right back is great, but there's not a lot going on in goal, centre half or central midfield. That's a significant part of the spine of a side.
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For me the worst part is the quality of goalkeepers, and perhaps a extra class quality midfielder but it was much better than Saturday.
 
SCP said:
For me the worst part is the quality of goalkeepers, and perhaps a extra class quality midfielder but it was much better than Saturday.
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Centre back? Coady, Mings and Maguire are players you'd be worried about in terms of winning a tournament. Guehi and Tomori are valid options but very inexperienced.

Midfield we have Rice, yes he's a good player and supposedly worth massive sums but at the moment in this England side he's just there to clog it up, his game is not at the level of controlling things. Henderson is old, Phillips made out of glass and we saw what the Rice-Phillips axis produces, fairly bland football. Bellingham is the hope of course, but what class international side worries about any combination of these players?

Those areas are big question marks to me before the ball even reaches the keeper. So yeah, it's a very good but flawed squad that he takes to this tournament. All managers have to compensate for weaknesses of course but there's no real reason England should be among the mega favourites for a WC with such big areas of concern.
 
SCP said:
England finished well the game in my opinion, it showed they have quality options on the bench but is really Pickford the best keeper in England?
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I’d have started the three that came on. Grealish is far more important in this system than he is in Man City’s, whereas Bellingham and Phillips might as well be playing a different sport.

Pickford has generally done pretty well for England in fairness. I’m not sure Pope or Ramsdale are much better.
 
I like Southgate the man, but he's a limited manager and does what all limited managers do, sets up to deny the opponents space with plenty of 'pace in behind'. Feel like it's such a waste, I can't imagine another serious footballing nation say Spain or Germany persisting with it for so long. Seems like his admirable personal qualities and the political stances he takes is a factor in his appointment, which it shouldnt be. This England team rarely keep possession in an opponents half, and while might have been true in past times didn't have the players for it, I believe we do have the players for it now and the weak link is the manager. Shame.
 
Lucky, lucky boy with that soft penalty.
 
Abraxas said:
Centre back? Coady, Mings and Maguire are players you'd be worried about in terms of winning a tournament. Guehi and Tomori are valid options but very inexperienced.
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Well if you look at Brazil they have Thiago Silva and Marquinhos partnership, Argentina has Otamendi with Romero, and no one is saying they aren’t top NT, England has options, ok maybe France is the NT with more quality regarding CB, but it’s doable.

Just think Pickford isn’t a top keeper and it would be better to have a extra class midfielder to play alongside Rice, Bellingham is promising and Philips had a great moment under Bielsa, but all in all it would be great to have someone better to dictate the rhythm in midfield, but the overall quality of options England has puts them amongst the top 5 favourites for Qatar, winning is another matter.
 
I mean Puckford should save that, right?
The ball came right at him. The plonker decided to move sideways.
 
Dan_F said:
Pickford has generally done pretty well for England in fairness. I’m not sure Pope or Ramsdale are much better.
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That’s the problem. Him being the best option don’t know if it’s enough to win the big tournaments on the final stages, even if he has reached top 4 in 2018 and was a penalty away from winning the Euros.
 
Abraxas said:
Centre back? Coady, Mings and Maguire are players you'd be worried about in terms of winning a tournament. Guehi and Tomori are valid options but very inexperienced.

Midfield we have Rice, yes he's a good player and supposedly worth massive sums but at the moment in this England side he's just there to clog it up, his game is not at the level of controlling things. Henderson is old, Phillips made out of glass and we saw what the Rice-Phillips axis produces, fairly bland football. Bellingham is the hope of course, but what class international side worries about any combination of these players?

Those areas are big question marks to me before the ball even reaches the keeper. So yeah, it's a very good but flawed squad that he takes to this tournament. All managers have to compensate for weaknesses of course but there's no real reason England should be among the mega favourites for a WC with such big areas of concern.
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How is Tomori “inexperienced”? Man has just won Serie A as first choice CB for Milan. Combine that with Stones, who’s a multiple PL winner and played in CL finals and semi-finals, it’s hardly a weak spot.

Southgate is just horrible and uninspiring as a manager. This team could be so much more.
 
Southgate might not be the answer but I very much doubt any manager could get England properly controlling games with the options available. The defence and midfield are still incredibly flawed on that front.
 
Southgate is a nothing manager but I think many are overrating this group of England players. The only position I'd say they're world class in is RB. every other position is average or good at best. The English sporting media's wankfest over the likes of Grealish and Foden is completely unfounded IMO.

Even with a better manager I wouldn't have them as favourites for the World Cup.
 
Southgate takes England to semi finals or finals even though he didn't win anything. When was the last time that an English manager been in a final? 1966. That is right. I believe if he stays for 10 years he will win something.

More practice makes you more perfect.
 
I'll say what I said after the Hungary match:

Whether Gareth Southgate wants to admit it or not (he has admitted it), the amount of English players playing in the EPL (Especially the top 6 clubs) is concerning.

In the last weekend of the EPL, of the 66 starters of the top 6 clubs in the EPL, only 14 were English.
 
Kaos said:
Southgate is a nothing manager but I think many are overrating this group of England players. The only position I'd say they're world class in is RB. every other position is average or good at best. The English sporting media's wankfest over the likes of Grealish and Foden is completely unfounded IMO.

Even with a better manager I wouldn't have them as favourites for the World Cup.
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Who has a better team top to bottom except France and maybe Brazil?

I think if England had a manager like Luis Enrique they would absolutely be one of the favorites (alongside France) for this World Cup.
 
Dan_F said:
In fairness, Germany have a far better squad right now. Look at the comparative benches. This talk of a golden generation for England is a load of shit. Some of that is probably Southgate’s fault or players being out of form, but still, that back four and keeper shouldn’t be anywhere near major tournament finals.
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It is true now but it wasn't in 2018/2020. We genuinely did have a superb team available to us but Southgate bottled it and prioritised keeping things tight as all limited managers do. You look at the World Cup 2018 or especially the Euro 2020 squads and consider the lineups we had available, it really was a golden generation, but again we wasted it with a pedestrian manager.

Now those players are older/out of form/crushed under the weight of expectation, it was a bang average team we sent out yesterday and will be a bang average squad we send to Qatar. The golden generation has passed, we are now an average side with an average manager. We have a ridiculously easy path to the quarter finals but I expect Southgate to get shown up horribly beyond that, maybe even in the last 16 against the Dutch or Senegalese. The only saving grace is that for once English players won't be exhausted at the end of a long season with no winter break.
 
Powderfinger said:
Who has a better team top to bottom except France and maybe Brazil?

I think if England had a manager like Luis Enrique they would absolutely be one of the favorites (alongside France) for this World Cup.
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This is how we lined up yesterday

Pickford
Trippier
Maguire
Stones
Walker
Phillips
Rice
Sterling
Mount
Saka
Kane

Not one of those names strikes fear into an opponent. Maguire is in atrocious form, most of the City lot can't get in their own team, Kane isn't the Kane we remember, and the rest are frankly mid table plodders.

In addition to Brazil and France I would be worried about playing any of the following:

Netherlands - their defence is outstanding.
Argentina - no explanation needed.
Germany - literally just outplayed us and a soft penalty saved a loss.
Spain - as good or better in every position.
Portugal - about the same level
Senegal - can give anybody a game
 
Theafonis said:
He has too many favorites and is scared to experiment.
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This! How players like Maguire, Walker, Trippier and Mount get in the team given their form is shocking but is an issue with most England coaches in recent years. They all have their favourites and it's why we are always underwhelming. Southgate will already have picked his starting line up for the World Cup regardless of form etc. Tomori should 100% be starting as should Foden, Grealish and Bellingham. Saka is another one who has become a favourite of Gareth's.

He picks attacking players based on their ability to defend, says it all really.
 
The biggest myth the media propagates is the idea of meritocracy in his selections. Absolutely farcical.
 
Kaos said:
Southgate is a nothing manager but I think many are overrating this group of England players. The only position I'd say they're world class in is RB. every other position is average or good at best. The English sporting media's wankfest over the likes of Grealish and Foden is completely unfounded IMO.

Even with a better manager I wouldn't have them as favourites for the World Cup.
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How many countries have world class players in every position? Not even France do.
 
Theafonis said:
He has too many favorites and is scared to experiment.
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mikeyt said:
This! How players like Maguire, Walker, Trippier and Mount get in the team given their form is shocking but is an issue with most England coaches in recent years. They all have their favourites and it's why we are always underwhelming. Southgate will already have picked his starting line up for the World Cup regardless of form etc. Tomori should 100% be starting as should Foden, Grealish and Bellingham. Saka is another one who has become a favourite of Gareth's.

He picks attacking players based on their ability to defend, says it all really.
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Absolute tosh! What was the Hungary game then?
 
Needs to look beyond just playing players from the top 6. It’s lazy and doesn’t show creativity, especially when the PL is so strong all over. If he had a real clear system he could really exploit that.
 
I swear none of you lot are ever happy.

If England had won the Euros and the WC you’d all still be unhappy and find negative reasons as to why we won it.

Ridiculous mindset.

The man knows how to play a tournament and we have finished the highest places in 2 major tournaments for over at least a decade and it’s a problem.

Absolute joke of a fanbase

Be critical yes, but this over the top criticism and pining for a “hipster” manager just simply is tiresome.

Are we ever happy?
 
11101 said:
It is true now but it wasn't in 2018/2020. We genuinely did have a superb team available to us but Southgate bottled it and prioritised keeping things tight as all limited managers do. You look at the World Cup 2018 or especially the Euro 2020 squads and consider the lineups we had available, it really was a golden generation, but again we wasted it with a pedestrian manager.

Now those players are older/out of form/crushed under the weight of expectation, it was a bang average team we sent out yesterday and will be a bang average squad we send to Qatar. The golden generation has passed, we are now an average side with an average manager. We have a ridiculously easy path to the quarter finals but I expect Southgate to get shown up horribly beyond that, maybe even in the last 16 against the Dutch or Senegalese. The only saving grace is that for once English players won't be exhausted at the end of a long season with no winter break.
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Did we? Not sure this squad needs the likes of Phil Jones, Delph, Cahill, Welbeck from 2018. The players are basically the same and far more in their prime now than in 2018.

I’m not really sure who you’re referring to that seemed to make the 2018 and 2020 squads so much better than this one. Henderson and the 2020 version of Shaw, but they will both be available for the WC.
 
I've lost interest in this team, as someone who watches the PL on a regular basis it's interesting to see how England does, but they play terrible football. They were very negative and lucky to make it to the final of the Euros, don't think Southgate is a good manager, watching them play is painful, the players are there, even if they aren't the best in the world, they're capable of playing better football than this.
Making the Euro final was actually bad for them, Southgate stayed because of that "achievement".
 
11101 said:
This is how we lined up yesterday

Pickford
Trippier
Maguire
Stones
Walker
Phillips
Rice
Sterling
Mount
Saka
Kane

Not one of those names strikes fear into an opponent. Maguire is in atrocious form, most of the City lot can't get in their own team, Kane isn't the Kane we remember, and the rest are frankly mid table plodders.
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Disagree with two of those but agree with your overall sentiment. Kane is in the top 5 strikers in world football. I'd say plenty of teams fear sterling even if I don't rate him. But I think the squad as a whole has players which are much better than those chosen. Southgate is a play it safe cowardly manager who found a formula not to lose rather than win. I'd say from those we have some world class players. This is my opinion of the squad:

Pickford (awful keeper for me). We have far better options available. Ramsdale should be number one by a country mile.
Maguire - Absolutely awful - even when in form he's very limited. Far too slow to react and over commits.
Stones - Good option.
Gomez - whatever happened to him? Looked immense for england but i've not seen anything of him since.
Walker - City's first choice right back. World class.
Trent - Liverpool's first choice right back. World class.
James - Chelsea's main attacking outlet - World class.
Trippier - Not a left back. Another RB.
Shaw - was one of the players of the tournament but not consistent enough for me. Needs an upgrade.
Chillwell - When fit should be first choice left back. World class.
Phillips - Good squad option
Rice - World class.
Sterling - Good squad option. Would start for most international teams although I don't rate him at all - Extremely limited.
Sancho - Should be a starter when fit and regains form. World class talent.
Mount - Not good enough for me. Managers like him because he works hard but he's not creative enough or technically good enough.
Saka - Not sure he should be a starter for england. Needs time to develop
Kane - World class.

On top of those we have the following:

Grealish - World class ability. Just needs to be utilized correctly.
Foden - World class. One of our best players.
Henderson - Don't rate.
Bowen - had a fantastic season. Much better than mount in the front four.
Bellingham - World class.

I think if this was the spanish team you'd see the likes of Foden, Grealish and Sancho behind Kane because of their higher technical ceiling with Bellingham at CM alongside Rice. Chillwell and James were absolutely deadly as wingbacks for Chelsea before getting injured. This squad is probably best suited to playing with attacking wing backs in a

5-1-2-1-1.

E.g

James/trent - Stones - CB - CB - Chillwell.
----------------------Rice-----------------------------------
------------Foden ------Belingham--------------------
--------------------Grealish----------------
---------------------Kane--------------------------------
 
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I remember a time when Gary N said he can be a man utd manager!
 
Gurtej said:
I remember a time when Gary N said he can be a man utd manager!
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I don't really care what happens at the club in a way that it bothers me. At the end of the day, it's just football and it should be enjoyable, not the other way around.
But, if this overrated motherfecker were to be appointed United manager, I'd really have a bad moment, for about 4 seconds. The season to follow would be an absolute comedy ride.
 
Mediocre defensive player becomes mediocre defensive manager. It’s a shame that England are being held back by Southgates tactics. We should have won that final if it wasn’t for the cowardly defensive play after the early goal and also the bizarre penalty decisions at the end. Hopefully we bomb out of the group stages in Qutar so the FA are forced to react.
 
Giant Midget said:
How is Tomori “inexperienced”? Man has just won Serie A as first choice CB for Milan. Combine that with Stones, who’s a multiple PL winner and played in CL finals and semi-finals, it’s hardly a weak spot.

Southgate is just horrible and uninspiring as a manager. This team could be so much more.
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He's inexperienced in international football. Which is why Southgate should be playing him in meaningless competitions such as the Nation's League. However, we can't say with a straight face that we have a strong defence to go into a major tournament because we have Tomori.
 
Was a pretty poor game yesterday but people have got some weird takes on it. Germany scored because our t-rex keeper made a complete mess of a routine save and the Kane penalty was 100% a penalty. Nothing at all soft about it. Someone clips your heels when you are running you will go down. Kane would go down under a stiff breeze but that was about as stone wall as you will see.

Southgate is Ole mk.2 in so many ways and I would be astounded if he wins anything as England manager. That being said, at least most people seem to care more about how far we go in a competition rather than how we actually play. Where have I seen that attitude before...
 
I think he'd be better in a background role for the overall England setup. He's quite good with the players and making them feel good and welcome but tactically he's absolutely shite.
 
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