So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I wish the English fans could get their wish. Get a manager who opens up so that they really find out why its a bad idea
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So don’t you think it would be good to aim for somewhere in the middle? I’m all for keeping it tight at the back when it’s necessary to do so, but if that’s all you ever do you’re perpetually stuck with dross performances like tonight’s.

Edit: for the avoidance of doubt, I think Potter would be a hopeless choice. His sort of manager needs to be at a club.
 
To think he was talked about as the next Utd manager ….fecking nightmare
 
UnitedSofa said:
Get to a semi final and a final in 4 years and apparently he’s crap because of 1 loss in the nations league that no one actually gives a feck about anyway.

The CAF ladies and gentlemen. The CAF.
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That sounds eeirly like the "Ole got 3rd and 2nd so he's can't be that bad".

Can see a similar shot of reality at this world cup.
 
Dancfc said:
That sounds eeirly like the "Ole got 3rd and 2nd so he's can't be that bad".

Can see a similar shot of reality at this world cup.
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That’s a very different situation though, this is cup competition football. Not a league spread over 38 games where form comes into play.

Cup competition is getting past what’s in front of you & having strategy.

Semi Final and a Final is a very impressive record.
 
Wilt said:
To think he was talked about as the next Utd manager ….fecking nightmare
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Considering there was talk of it, but it hasn't happened, is real cause for optimism.
 
Maluco said:
I will probably get abuse for this, but England fans have always, and continue to, overrate their own players.

The center back options are sparse, the midfield is functional without being phenomenal technically and the attack has very few players coming off top seasons (Foden, Kane, Saka)

There are definitely issues with the team, and certainly problems with depth through the center.

The CL final was a good example of how teams with better technical players will find a way to win.

Is Southgate boring and pragmatic? Absolutely! Are England good enough to win a World Cup with an attacking side? I don’t think they are…
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A lot of that is true now but in 2018 and especially 2020 it wasn't. We could have won one of those with a better manager.
 
Always been a crap manager at the elite level and has achieved what he has due to having quality players, a massively favourable path in both competitions and playing utterly dire and depressing football with 8/11 players largely dedicated to defending.
 
The patterns seems to be "pick an average, defensive minded tactic for a super talented squad capable of scoring goals and when it results in a draw, blame in on penalty".
 
England fans say stuff like "we're top heavy" and "we have a super talented squad capable of scoring goals", etc.

But where? Take out kane and Stirling from last night's squad, where are the goals?

Both England best keepers almost got relegated (one did). Left back is a problem. You have to play with 3 center backs because the center back area is an issue. There's no central midfielder who is able to dictate the tempo. No creative spark in midfield. No attacking flair from their umpteen inside forwards. And if Kane is injured/suspended, Watkins and Abraham have scored 5 in 17.

England keep getting baled out because they keep producing one striker per generation who can bang in the goals at international level: Lineker, Shearer, Owen, Rooney and now Kane.

Whether Gareth Southgate wants to admit it or not (he has admitted it), the amount of English players playing in the EPL (Especially the top 6 clubs) is concerning.

In the last weekend of the EPL, of the 66 starters of the top 6 clubs in the EPL, only 14 were English.
 
What, is Southgate no longer the fecking bomb after his adroit stewardship of England to the Euros final? Southgate is so staid, his waistcoats are a sign of his wild streak, and he manages the England team with the same life-affirming flair. It's supposed to be a fun game to watch - and to play, but no, it's "stiff upper lip" and don't go wild, boys. 8 to 10 players behind the ball, at least that set up makes Maguire look like a competent defender. Look, England are not world-beaters and even though Italy were poor in the final, Italy deservedly won. This rat's nest of Hungarian racists though, should have been put to the sword. Isn't Kane world class? Isn't Grealish some kind of wizard? Then why is Southgate setting them up to play like a bunch of fecking scared rabbits?
 
I never got the hype with this guy.

We got to a World Cup semi-final, after all the other good teams were eliminated, and somehow still managed to not get to the final and lose to a team like Croatia.

Even in that World Cup, we managed to lose 3 times overall (Belgium twice and obviously Croatia)

Finally got to a final, by playing the most pragmatic, boring football known to man and managed to lose on home soil.

The sooner this guy goes, the better.
 
England under Southgate is playing 90's Italian football. Ultra defensive and negative. It will bored you to death.

With so many attacking players they should be more bold. English football used to be going all gung ho and was interesting to watch.

Now, the tactics are stuck in the 90's. Big Sam could do a better job with this style of play.
 
That England CM is absolute dog shite. Hope we steer well clear of Bellingham and Rice.
 
England being managed by Southgate is like United being managed by Moyes or Solskjaer. I don't get why you wouldn't find the best man available.
 
Revaulx said:
So don’t you think it would be good to aim for somewhere in the middle? I’m all for keeping it tight at the back when it’s necessary to do so, but if that’s all you ever do you’re perpetually stuck with dross performances like tonight’s.
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Last night was a performance down to post season tiredness, to be fair. Not tactics. The midfield and attack was so heavy legged. It's hard to attack well when tired. Second, England fans need to droo the naive 'we can play far better football narrative'. Not when you are yet to produce a single deep midfield player who can dictate play from deep. On top of not having the best collection of center halves. The day England as it is equipped now becomes more risky in approach, plenty of embarrassing results will consistently crop up vs the hungary's and iceland's of this world. Yet with pragmatism, results of the kind are largely anomalies.
 
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Dancfc said:
That sounds eeirly like the "Ole got 3rd and 2nd so he's can't be that bad".

Can see a similar shot of reality at this world cup.
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It really doesn't. Its obvious the likes of you mistakenly believe you have a power house generation. Rather than a generation with faulty center halves and zero creative center midfielders
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It really doesn't. Its obvious the likes of you mistakenly believe you have a power house generation. Rather than a generation with faulty center halves and zero creative center midfielders
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I appreciate this may be a bit of a novel suggestion but maybe I don't think England have a powerhouse generation but could also be playing better football than they are.

Sometimes, just sometimes, things aren't so binary.
 
Dancfc said:
I appreciate this may be a bit of a novel suggestion but maybe I don't think England have a powerhouse generation but could also be playing better football than they are.

Sometimes, just sometimes, things aren't so binary.
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When you start laughable comparisons like their second place finish at the Euros = Ole getting second. It pretty much is. Because it should be obvious Ole's second place finish was nothing similar to Southgate losing on penalties to an Italian team with superior international pedigree and a superior creative midfield. In a final. You have to be under the illusion this england generation can risk to play more open football vs the top teams in the international arena consistently, in spite of their obvious lack of creativity in center midfield and faulty center back selection to think that way.
 
International football, especially tournament football is all about results. They barely get any time to train together, it's all about tactical adjustment and results.
 
I disagree with those who think that squad can't play attacking football and Southgate has no choice. Some of the full backs and midfielders are strong and fast. You could easily play some of them as CBs with back three or four on a higher line.. Vast majority of attacking players are fast and young, of course they can do the pressing.
 
The overreaction to yesterday’s result is incredible. We all know Southgates’ limitations long before the Hungary game. He’s made England solid and it’s worked in two tournaments better than it has for 50 years. Try playing attacking football with that squad and will we will picked apart.
 
Italian and German team used to be ultra defensive. They won major tournament with that style of play in olden days. They have changed their style drastically as defensive football is the past and can't seem to bring anymore success to them.

England is doing the exact opposite and going full defensive mode in modern day. England has the players to play modern attacking football. They are not minor team in Europe/World. They have lots of superstars. They need a better manager than Southgate.
 
Wilt said:
To think he was talked about as the next Utd manager ….fecking nightmare
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Give it till Christmas time before he’s linked with taking over at Utd again because the notion of we need to go back to English in order to find our roots because foreign managers aren’t working returns.
 
I heard about how he made England more solid defensively. If all you want to do is to be solid at the back and be pragmatic, might as well go for Jose. At least you would fancy him in a final.
 
Reminds me of Wilmots at Belgium. Solid defensively due to having great defenders and keeper but no gameplan upfront relying solely on the creativity of our also great attackers. Devoid of ideas when we went behind and making the team worse with his substitutes effectively making it easier to see those games out for our opponents (Argentina/Wales). Southgate has done a lot better though since Wilmots never went past quarters. If Wilmots made the final of the ec we wouldn’t have sacked him aswell.
 
I like to laugh at England as much as the next person, but last night was a preseason friendly type game. England will still reach quarter finals at least at the World Cup
 
Josep Dowling said:
The overreaction to yesterday’s result is incredible. We all know Southgates’ limitations long before the Hungary game. He’s made England solid and it’s worked in two tournaments better than it has for 50 years. Try playing attacking football with that squad and will we will picked apart.
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Agree, that yesterday's result didn't show anything we didn't already know about, but I'm curious as to why they wouldn't be able to play attacking football? Use the likes of Kane, Foden, Sancho, Grealish, Sterling and Mount in attack with Rice sitting in midfield to protect. You even have attacking fullbacks like Trent, Reece James, Chilwell, etc.

What exactly is it the team is lacking to play attack football? Only thing I can see is a truly world-class DM.
 
RedSky said:
He's shit, always has been and always will be. With the quality of depth we have right now to play as defensive as we do is horrendous.

In time, we'll look back at this point of time and think what could have been had we got a better Manager. An utter waste of a quality generation. It maddens me that you have people defending him when we had to witness that shameful display against Italy in the final.
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It's mental that some can't see he's a problem.
Mike Smalling said:
Agree, that yesterday's result didn't show anything we didn't already know about, but I'm curious as to why they wouldn't be able to play attacking football? Use the likes of Kane, Foden, Sancho, Grealish, Sterling and Mount in attack with Rice sitting in midfield to protect. You even have attacking fullbacks like Trent, Reece James, Chilwell, etc.

What exactly is it the team is lacking to play attack football? Only thing I can see is a truly world-class DM.
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The only people who say Southgate has to play like this are people who don't watch England.

When we attack, we are still solid defensively. People underestimate our defence. All we lack is a CM capable of controlling a game. We have everything else. Personally, I think Arsenals Charlie Patino will be that player for us eventually.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Agree, that yesterday's result didn't show anything we didn't already know about, but I'm curious as to why they wouldn't be able to play attacking football? Use the likes of Kane, Foden, Sancho, Grealish, Sterling and Mount in attack with Rice sitting in midfield to protect. You even have attacking fullbacks like Trent, Reece James, Chilwell, etc.

What exactly is it the team is lacking to play attack football? Only thing I can see is a truly world-class DM.
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They lack a decent CB pairing and goalkeeper. Pickford looks good in an England shirt because we play low block football with two DM. The likes of Liverpool and City can play attacking football because of their world class CBs. England simply can’t do that. Play attacking football and see how exposed Maguire looks. Exactly the same scenario as United this season.
 
Ah, I see the "Southgate's shite; get him out!" brigade are out in full-force again with their totally reasonable standard of never losing a game...
 
Josep Dowling said:
They lack a decent CB pairing and goalkeeper. Pickford looks good in an England shirt because we play low block football with two DM. The likes of Liverpool and City can play attacking football because of their world class CBs. England simply can’t do that. Play attacking football and see how exposed Maguire looks. Exactly the same scenario as United this season.
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Maybe Maguire shouldn‘t be the player to build the defense around then. If the choice is to either try other CBs that may be more suitable for a more offensive setup, or to stick with Maguire but then be forced to play negative, defensive football, then I would hope to see the former.

Not sure how accurately I remember, but Smalling wasn‘t considered good enough with the ball at his feet and was replaced. Maguire doesn‘t seem to be good enough unless you protect him by having almost every other player shielding him.

I disagree with the stance of many here, that a semi-final and a final should be seen as positive signs. I‘m not going to kid myself and claim England has a fantastic squad and should be winning things. But I also don‘t buy into this whole narrative of „we only got that far by playing pragmatic“. I‘d rather see England crash and burn while trying to play positive, attacking football than still not win anything but in a passive, dull fashion.

I don‘t understand how anybody can realistically think England are going to win one of the real tournaments with this approach. Everything was already aligned as good as it‘ll ever get and it still wasn‘t good enough.
 
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