I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere but if you watch the incident from the beginning Antony gets shoved in to the advertising boards and the other guy says something to him then Antony jumps up and storms up to him I'd love to know what was said to him for all that to flare over like it did.
So... Was it a red? (Casemiro / Hughes Royal Rumble)
- Thread starter Vidyoyo
- Start date
Are you sure about that?
Look at Hughes' shirt puckered up, just to the right of Casemiro's right hand
Why would that happen, except by the shirt being pulled upwards, pinched between fingers and thumb?
Yes, like 100% sure. Zero doubt. Certain. Zoom in on the picture, you can literally see his thumbs and the fabric shaping in a curved L shape.
The shirt is rucking up because it's caught between Casemiro's hand and Hughes' neck. I even drew a nice red line around the thumb about 20 pages back to explain it to someone.
One last time from me, he grabs the shirt! In the other angle where it appears he’s holding the neck, it’s just that the shirt has slid up around that area. Look at the two still pics and look at varanes body shape. Clearly shows it was hands on shoulders grabbing shirt first and then that slid up towards the neck.I don't think there's any mistake when you have someone's thumbs on your voiceboxif we try and appeal that he's going to get a 4 game ban instead of 3 and miss the final.
People are just upset because they've seen it's not violent (or pinning all their hopes on one angle as if the other is a lie, rather than using both), but ignoring that to the rules that's not actually important.
he did not grab him around the throat ffs!
Regardless, he’s put his hands up and forced a decision. That part cannot really be disputed.
what’s disputable is intent and the use of var, plus why werent the other bits dealt with.
If that's the case, what are the two black, thumb looking things across the front of Hughes' neck? Because they exist, they're clearly there. Hughes isn't wearing gloves and nobody else's hands are near.
Yep red card easily.
You’re still not listening. Never mind
If that's the case, what are the two black, thumb looking things across the front of Hughes' neck? Because they exist, they're clearly there. Hughes isn't wearing gloves and nobody else's hands are near.
When a linesman waves their flag above their head, that signals a foul. Watch the replay.
If you come up with an explanation for the black bits that look exactly like thumbs but aren't thumbs because then that would mean he couldn't be holding his collar because there'd be about 4 inches between his thumb and the tips if his fingers (and a big ol' bit of neck) let me know.I'm new in town and not yet fully accustomed.
I walk into the local supermarket where you work as security/referee.
There's one other customer in there. Insert name here.
I approch the guy and grab him by his nuts, with both hands.
Well, technically not his nuts, it's the fabric he wears, of course.
Questions:
Will you throw me out of that supermarket, period?
Does it matter to your decision-making that I never touched his balls, just his fabric?
Also, I claim it was very soft, no harms intended, and there's video footage that showes the guy is smiling afterwards - does that influence your decision-making?
I walk into the local supermarket where you work as security/referee.
There's one other customer in there. Insert name here.
I approch the guy and grab him by his nuts, with both hands.
Well, technically not his nuts, it's the fabric he wears, of course.
Questions:
Will you throw me out of that supermarket, period?
Does it matter to your decision-making that I never touched his balls, just his fabric?
Also, I claim it was very soft, no harms intended, and there's video footage that showes the guy is smiling afterwards - does that influence your decision-making?
If that was true, the creases would be between the hands and the neck, and the shirt on the right would be stretched flat
Look again at the picture. There might be some other details
Sadly i just freeze framed the video at certain points, and screenshotted them. Grabs the shirt with right hand, grabs with left hand and then as he’s brushed away you can still see him clearly gripping the shirt with his left hand.
Done anyway, meaningless, you’ve your mind made up.
What a strange hill to die on
Going to the shops isn’t a contact sport. Plenty of shirt-tugging in a game of football, and there’s a world of difference between grabbing a collar and wrapping your hands around someone’s neck.
Dude, you really need to take off your red-tinted glasses and examine the situation like a rational adult.
You can see the creases where he’s holding the shirt! You can’t see his thumbs.
Surely the point at which that screen shot is taken is just at the time he has released his collar before pulling his hands away and holding them up in front of Hughes face?
You can make any case you want with a specially selected freeze frame.
I wonder why some are so anxious to paint an incriminating picture of our own player?
Baffling.
You can make any case you want with a specially selected freeze frame.
I wonder why some are so anxious to paint an incriminating picture of our own player?
Baffling.
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Like I said, if those aren't thumbs then what are they?
Because they're definitely thumbs.The creases are in the same place regardless because it's the same upward force on something being held from below. Look at the shirt, you can see where it's been held up between Casemiro's palm and Hughes' neck.
There's also the issue of where his left thumb is (also across the neck) even if you're willing to ignore the right one.
The topic is a discussion about what happened, it's no weirder than arguing the other position. It would be incredibly weird to argue something you don't believe just because it was about a player playing for a football club you support.
How about you answer all of my post?
I'll post the question again for you.
Surely the point at which that screen shot is taken is just at the time he has released his collar before pulling his hands away and holding them up in front of Hughes face?
Surely the point at which that screen shot is taken is just at the time he has released his collar before pulling his hands away and holding them up in front of Hughes face?
This is the issue with freeze frames. his hands are coming OFF his collar away from him, but they've paused it at a point that it looks like he's throttling him.
If that's the case, what are the two black, thumb looking things across the front of Hughes' neck? Because they exist, they're clearly there. Hughes isn't wearing gloves and nobody else's hands are near.
His hands aren't actually touching hughes there at all, they're floating away. You've been suckered in by a freeze frame just like the referee was.
Hence why he won't answer and edited that part out when he quoted me.
He could prove us all wrong with an unedited video.
@Dion Case grabs his shoulder then grips the shirt (hence the creases in your image) His hands are either side of Hughes neck but at no point does he grab it directly. There is no thumb on the voice box, it’s gripping the shirt.
I’ve zoomed and studied your image, and I’m not convinced the right hand is even in contact with Hughes at that point. I also doubt they are Casemiros thumbs unless he has dislocated them.
Id have to agree with @RedNome that this seems a weird hill to die on, but your having the same arguement simultaneously with several posters and you won’t accept there is an element of doubt in the decision.
Tumbleweed.
My point is not that football wasn't a contact sport. It is.
Wrapping your hands around someone's neck in a melee however is red, regardless of the force you apply, the face the guy makes or the heat in the moment. My understanding of the spirit of the game/rules. Sadly enough the rules aren't enforced as should be (e.g. only captains allowed to approach refs), but that's another story (e.g. red for Ayew).
I appreciate Hughes makes no theatre there, but again, it's a deserved red. Casemiro was asking for it, and same story in the supermarket, regardless of the force you apply, the face the guy makes or the heat in the moment. No?
I thought this was obvious, no idea why people keep posting that still picture as some sort of smoking gun. It's just a bad angle to try to judge anything from.
Usually when it's 99% against 1% it's clear enough.
He's obviously misread the situation but can't admit he's wrong - not unusual on here.
The video showing the angle from behind is as clear evidence as you'll ever need.
I assume they're looking on bad screens and think the dark park is actually his glove or something? or just not looking at it properly.
@Dion is useful here to show how the FA might see the case (If the Club appeals). It doesn't matter what 99.99999% United fans think or want others to see. He's not necessarily condemning our player.
There's one poster summed it up nicely, it's a stupid rule (interpretation) and stupid action.
There's one poster summed it up nicely, it's a stupid rule (interpretation) and stupid action.
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nothing he's said is helpful, he's just got the situation completely wrong from a freeze frame.
IF United were to appeal they'd clearly show the angle that shows he only grips his upper shoulder (collar) and nothing is around his neck strangling him at all.
It's quite interesting this thread tbh. Just shows how something out of context can really change the 'opinion' or degree of severity.
If I was Case I'd be hugely aggrieved with the club if we didn't appeal, no matter what the fears of their actions might be.
I don't think we have any choice really.
I don't think we have any choice really.
This right here. Like ETH said if you freeze it at the right moment you make it look worse than it actually is. Here B/R uses a freezed moment where it looks the absolute worst. Just like VAR gave a slow'd down, 1 angle short loop and froze it at the worst moment. Meanwhile there's more angles that show there wasn't violent conduct.
Where the feck was VAR when Licha got an elbow right in the head and needed to be patched up because it drew blood, how was that not violent play? But here they singled out in an incident in a scuffle that started with something with a dangerous challenge that 100% should have been a red and then they ignore Ayew doing what they thought Casemiro did.
Like I said, if those aren't thumbs then what are they?
feck me man, it’s a still and his fingers are clearly released at that point, so likely it’s the split second after he let go of the shirt
He either can't admit he's wrong or he has some other motive for this.
No idea what is happening to cause this meltdown over that picture. But that picture is obviously when he's taken his hand away from Hughes neck/collar and is holding his hand up in a defensive position.
Did he wrap his hands around his neck though? Seems like the alternate angles show that he didn’t.
Virtually nobody is condoning a chokehold.
Hughes would clear this up
Up and to the left, the Zarbruder film proves that Casemiro was not a lone culprit.
My last post was 58 minutes ago. I'm sorry but this isn't a place where you're going to get instant replies constantly.
And I didn't bother quoting the rest of your post because it's nonsense. You can watch the video of the entire exchange from that angle. His hands are in the same position the entire time.
It's here.
People seem to be determined to pretend that the argument is based around one image, rather than the image being a useful tool to highlight that people have been suckered in by one flattering angle from behind. But then I guess that's because watching both videos makes it clear the VAR got it right on this decision and people think if they pretend hard enough otherwise then he'll get unbanned.
We won't appeal, he wont get unbanned.