So, this leak...

Damien said:
So all week (and more) they've been going on about the problems with Mackay and Tan, then the night before a huge press conference ahead of a game that should be one of the biggest moments in Cardiff's recent history (for good reasons) the press reveal that Tan has told Mackay in an email to resign or be sacked from his job.

All Mackay would have been doing for most of the week is trying to prepare his team for the game amidst this media attention which he wouldn't have wanted. Less than a week before Christmas and he knows it's a matter of time before he is sacked which is horrible. His position is pretty much untenable with the tensions between him and Tan, but he has to keep going on.

For that information about the resign or be sacked to be let out in that manner so close to the press conference meant that it would have been ridiculous if Mackay did show up as all the questions would be about him and not the team or this game that was so important.

The Cardiff fans would understand Mackay not showing up in that instance, and the treatment to the assistant manager was terrible. Yes, the journalists have a job, but so do Mackay and the assistant manager and the press were being disrespectful to someone who was uncomfortable in that situation by insisting he talk about something that had been clearly outlined was off the agenda (Mackay).

There was no way anything new was going to come out of the press conference anyway as most of the gossip was in the papers overnight and you wouldn't expect any club to comment on a situation like that.

I kind of get what you're on about, but in this case the journalists aren't in the right in my opinion.
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Fair enough, and whilst I don't agree with the post, it's a good riposte.

I do agree with the difficulty of the situation, on this occasion. Mackay was in an horrendous position, created by Tan. That does not mean, in my view, that he should have written the press conference off all together. He should not have fielded questions on the matter, because of course he couldn't comment, but a statement should have been prepared covering the issue.

Pretending the issue doesn't exist is just farcical though, and that's what Cardiff did. Yes, they clearly outlined it was off the agenda, but for the public, it was the only thing on the agenda. They dealt with it very poorly - a prepared comment would have sufficed. Wasting their time by inviting them up for the conference to then pretend it was all rosy and there wasn't an issue is just rude, basically.
 
alastair said:
:lol: I agree that the woman was being ridiculous in the end. She should have just walked out.
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Yeah, it was a farce.

They didn't want to talk to him anymore than he didn't want to talk to them. Should have just issued a statement saying the situation (Mackay still manager) and they all could have gone home.

Was pretty pathetic all round.
 
SteveJ said:
It isn't a club's - or a manager's - job to boost readership for a publication or website account.



That decision rests with their employers, who'll be the ones to evaluate whether their employee stepped out of line or, alternatively, whether the club in question has acted unfairly. You know all this, so any cri de coeur on behalf of journalists is both unnecessary and curious.
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Well, I think if a journalist doesn't come back with any stories and proceeds to get himself banned from conferences, he's not really going to serve much of a role within his job, is he?

And my argument doesn't extend to boosting a readership. What it extends to is attending the conference and not completely ignoring the elephant in the room. There's a balance to be struck.
 
alastair said:
Fair enough, and whilst I don't agree with the post, it's a good riposte.

I do agree with the difficulty of the situation, on this occasion. Mackay was in an horrendous position, created by Tan. That does not mean, in my view, that he should have written the press conference off all together. He should not have fielded questions on the matter, because of course he couldn't comment, but a statement should have been prepared covering the issue.

Pretending the issue doesn't exist is just farcical though, and that's what Cardiff did. Yes, they clearly outlined it was off the agenda, but for the public, it was the only thing on the agenda. They dealt with it very poorly - a prepared comment would have sufficed. Wasting their time by inviting them up for the conference to then pretend it was all rosy and there wasn't an issue is just rude, basically.
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That's never enough for the press though, they don't take that for an answer and continue to try and ask questions about the subject as though it's going to illicit another response and give them something new, when it quite clearly isn't and it just turns the conference into a tedious merry-go-round of pointless questions and increasing frustration from both sides.
 
That'sHernandez said:
That's never enough for the press though, they don't take that for an answer and continue to try and ask questions about the subject as though it's going to illicit another response and give them something new, when it quite clearly isn't and it just turns the conference into a tedious merry-go-round of pointless questions and increasing frustration from both sides.
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Just like the endless Rooney questions in the summer.
 
That'sHernandez said:
That's never enough for the press though, they don't take that for an answer and continue to try and ask questions about the subject as though it's going to illicit another response and give them something new, when it quite clearly isn't and it just turns the conference into a tedious merry-go-round of pointless questions and increasing frustration from both sides.
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That's when it turns into their fault.

As I say, this isn't some impassioned defence of journalistic practice, but I'm merely trying to express the balance I believe is required.
 
PeteReDevil said:
I've never understood this disdain for journalists in England. Or is it only football-journalists?
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Journalists in the UK have a long history of doing distasteful things to get or create stories. Are you familiar with the News of the World phone tapping cases?
 
The cheek of that twat in the Cardiff presser today to say "Well that's not good enough" - what a fecking parasite.
 
PeteReDevil said:
I am but this goes from way before that doesn't it?
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They've got a long history of making stuff up and pissing people off. That and they generally appear smarmy and smug. They also have a habit of seeming hugely insensitive at various occasions. I think there's something very "un-British" about the way some (a lot of) journos behave, to be fair to them most have little choice since it's their job but still. Plus there's the whole "what the feck do they actually do to earn money", it seems to be a sort of job that we all think we could probably do if we weren't doing something else, that always irritates people.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
They've got a long history of making stuff up and pissing people off. That and they generally appear smarmy and smug. They also have a habit of seeming hugely insensitive at various occasions. I think there's something very "un-British" about the way some (a lot of) journos behave, to be fair to them most have little choice since it's their job but still. Plus there's the whole "what the feck do they actually do to earn money", it seems to be a sort of job that we all think we could probably do if we weren't doing something else, that always irritates people.
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These helped a lot. Thanks.
I do regard journalism highly myself, but then again, frown at the journalists we have here. But it's usually more on their exagerrated politeness and lack of effort
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
The cheek of that twat in the Cardiff presser today to say "Well that's not good enough" - what a fecking parasite.
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I understand and even respect the journalist for saying what's true, namely that people who support Cardiff (and football followers generally) want to know more than what that assistant was letting on.

But what the feck is he thinking will happen? This assistant, who works for a man about to be fired, stuck in a completely untenable situation with a mental owner, has bigger problems than a press conference. Of course the assistant knows its not good enough. I'm sure he would probably rather let all the fans know exactly what's happening with their club. But opening his mouth like that would only exacerbate the situation and probably result in Mackay being fired even sooner. He's not talking about it because he'd rather keep his job, get over it.
 
The guy fielding the questions did well not be to react to the idiot.

"We know what's going on". Well, if you do, stop asking questions you idiot.

That's not good enough, oh do sod off. He wouldn't try that with a Fergie or someone high powered, so don't try and bully Cardiff's patsy!
 
Bebe said:
I understand and even respect the journalist for saying what's true, namely that people who support Cardiff (and football followers generally) want to know more than what that assistant was letting on.
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Does that matter? It is a private matter, for a private football club, and two private individuals. We are talking about someone's job here. Why should it be made public? I can't understand the logic on here sometimes, such as this or what alastair has been saying. A journalists job is to uncover stories, fine. But to say they should therefore be allowed access to the club in whatever way they wish is utter nonsense.

For the record I don't agree with the ban as I don't think it solves the problem. However, it's up the United what they do.
 
Agree that the reporter was out of line there. I'm sure she wants information and that's fair enough, but she'll have to work harder in order to get it.
 
rpitroda said:
It is a private matter, for a private football club, and two private individuals.
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That's what I've got a problem with. When it's comfortable for us, fans, the club is 'ours' and we should at least know what's going on - some even want a voice in matters and to be listened to. When it's not, it's a private football club and a private matter.
 
What irritates me about these hacks is their false sense of entitlement. Good on Moyes for banning him. It's Moyes' job to do whatever he thinks is best for this club and if someone is compromising that then why should they continue to get the privilege of access to the club? I wanted him banned sooner and it wasn't just 15 mins before the official release that he was announcing the line-ups on twitter, there were at least a couple of CL games I think where they were announced very early in the day. If you do these things expect the repercussions and live with them. He clearly thought that because Fergie's now gone it's a free for all, so I'm glad he's been given a rude awakening. Why should Moyes be a pushover? Because he's new and hasn't won anything?
 
7even said:
WTF!!!

The assistant handled the situation quite well but the journalist....... I agree. Pathetic.


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I don't think he handled it well at all. The journalists tone was laughable and his comments full of self entitlement, and he should have gotten it in the neck for it.
 
LR7 said:
What irritates me about these hacks is their false sense of entitlement. Good on Moyes for banning him. It's Moyes' job to do whatever he thinks is best for this club and if someone is compromising that then why should they continue to get the privilege of access to the club? I wanted him banned sooner and it wasn't just 15 mins before the official release that he was announcing the line-ups on twitter, there were at least a couple of CL games I think where they were announced very early in the day. If you do these things expect the repercussions and live with them. He clearly thought that because Fergie's now gone it's a free for all, so I'm glad he's been given a rude awakening. Why should Moyes be a pushover? Because he's new and hasn't won anything?
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This. Damn straight.
 
The article from McDonnell is fecking cringeworthy. Hes better than that. Moyes had every right to ban him. That said, look where the leak is coming from - Cleverley or Rio's camp would be my calculated guess.

Still, to write an article stating its s reporters right to do this was just petty. I don't think he will be making an appearance back at OT any time soon.
 
LR7 said:
What irritates me about these hacks is their false sense of entitlement. Good on Moyes for banning him. It's Moyes' job to do whatever he thinks is best for this club and if someone is compromising that then why should they continue to get the privilege of access to the club? I wanted him banned sooner and it wasn't just 15 mins before the official release that he was announcing the line-ups on twitter, there were at least a couple of CL games I think where they were announced very early in the day. If you do these things expect the repercussions and live with them. He clearly thought that because Fergie's now gone it's a free for all, so I'm glad he's been given a rude awakening. Why should Moyes be a pushover? Because he's new and hasn't won anything?
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Absolutely spot on. I don't like Moyes but vital he stamps his authority on situations like this and hes done well here.
 
LR7 said:
What irritates me about these hacks is their false sense of entitlement. Good on Moyes for banning him. It's Moyes' job to do whatever he thinks is best for this club and if someone is compromising that then why should they continue to get the privilege of access to the club? I wanted him banned sooner and it wasn't just 15 mins before the official release that he was announcing the line-ups on twitter, there were at least a couple of CL games I think where they were announced very early in the day. If you do these things expect the repercussions and live with them. He clearly thought that because Fergie's now gone it's a free for all, so I'm glad he's been given a rude awakening. Why should Moyes be a pushover? Because he's new and hasn't won anything?
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Indeed. Journos nowadays think they can do basically everything and then defend themselves with freedom of speech card ( used wrongly most of the time ), 'my duty is to report everything' and so on bullshit. Well, Moyes' job is to do everything best for the club and he just did it. I said it at the very start of his career here that he should've banned one or two twats to get pressure off him, he didn't do that but I'm happy that the learning he's done here is not fruitless and it's already showing.
 
Football clubs and managers can say whatever want, or refuse to answer any question, or even refuse to talk to anyone they don't want to talk to. Complaining about it doesn't change much, it just makes you a whinny little bitch.
 
alastair said:
The Waitrose eggs thing was great for the journalists though. They go back and tell their editor that they can write a headline about how Mourinho harped on about egg standards. It creates hits and makes fans read it. Finding out the United team early creates Twitter hits, yes, but it increases the Mirror brand.

Banning journalists can cost them their jobs. If it's warranted, fine, but for naming the team because your team has a leak? Not acceptable.
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You really do talk some tedious bollocks Alistair. United aren't there to give The Mirror news stories. The guy was publishing confidential information that wouldn't have been revealed as early as he was revealing it. It's not on United to give people stories if they don't want to. He says it's his job to uncover stories, well nobody at United is stopping him from uncovering stories, they're just not letting him have direct access to the club. He can uncover stories if he wants, he can just do it somewhere else. What did he expect when he broadcast stuff before it should have been revealed? A fanfare when he rocked up to Carrington with his notebook? United are well within their rights to try and stop a journalist giving their opposition a head start by releasing their lineups early. The press have this notion that clubs owe them stories or that every question they ask should be answered because they've asked it. What gives them this entitlement? United can tell who they want what they want, and if they don't want some cnut keen to breach their confidentiality sitting in on an official press conference then they're right to not allow him access.
 
Good on Moyes for banning the cnut.
 
Fergie's handling of the media was the best. Moyes should continue to ban any idiots. Press freedom doesn't exempt them from showing respect.
 
Amir said:
That's what I've got a problem with. When it's comfortable for us, fans, the club is 'ours' and we should at least know what's going on - some even want a voice in matters and to be listened to. When it's not, it's a private football club and a private matter.
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We are fans, and we will always want information. I can't speak for others, but yes there is information I would love to know, and information I think we should know. But just because I think we should hear certain information doesn't make it hypocritical. It is dependent on what the information is. And in any case, I always respect it's the clubs choice. Can't say that about everyone but for me that's what I think.
 
mic.m said:
Fergie's handling of the media was the best. Moyes should continue to ban any idiots. Press freedom doesn't exempt them from showing respect.
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Indeed. Plus, this has nothing to do with the freedom of the press: Nobody's stopping them from printing their poorly researched, speculative, sensationalist bollocks. This is a matter of denying them access to a certain kind of information. The media doesn't have a given right to be privy to everything - contrary to what some of these sanctimonious cnuts seem to think, or at least pretend to think.
 
If you knowingly post the correct team a few hours before it's revealed then you risk repercussions. Of course the club aren't going to be happy with that, and he would have known this and decided to take the risk anyway. If it costs him his job then tough shit, he knew what he was doing.
 
Moyes went out of his way to cultivate associations with the press at the start of his management, so much so that fans (on here & elsewhere) were talking of a new & friendly approach to the media from United; this situation is an example of how that openness has been exploited by a media that evidently believes it should face no consequences no matter what it reports, no matter how news is uncovered.
 
mickeza said:
Probably, he definitely got himself a nice little article out if it anyway. Someone leaking the team is quite worrying though, we need to find out who that is sharpish.
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That's the main issue. Whether it's a player or someone from staff... If it's a one off then you live with it. But he's doing it match after match, and we're paying him as well? That's bad. Hope it's no one big or anything...
 
Count Orduck said:
Did I hear it right? Did one of those journalists say "well I'm afraid that's not good enough"? Really? Pathetic. Vermin.
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It's that cnut with no teeth Gary Cotterill. The assistant should have just walked out, talking to him in that way. fecking cnut.
 
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