To be honest there's not much difference between that and a 3-5-2 in terms of roles on the pitch. The main difference is that Jones has more forward responsibility and bit less defensive responsibility, while your full backs have more defending to do and less attacking.
So the 3-5-2
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To be honest there's not much difference between that and a 3-5-2 in terms of roles on the pitch. The main difference is that Jones has more forward responsibility and bit less defensive responsibility, while your full backs have more defending to do and less attacking.
It's weird alright. Formations interest me less than anything else in football (so forgive me if I fall asleep before I finish this post) but I would have thought that, whatever formation you use, you only play one number 10. So pointing out how many number 10s you have wouldn't have any relevance in a discussion about the merits of 352 vs 433.
Chose the wrong day to come on Redcafe then...
Yup. The difference I see is it would allow us to play our technical midfielders all together with assurances of jones covering just behind them as a holding midfielder/advanced centre back.
Herrera and Mata will have to split out wide in that.
Actually we tried the Diamond with Cleverley and Anderson, Carrick and Rooney as a 4 for a few times the season before the last one and it worked well. But then abandoned it.
That was a very different dynamic as well which we could use.
If you play Jones in it, it's effectively the same thing. If you play a new DM in it, it's effectively the same as a 433. Formations are often interchangeable, but they're not completely meaningless - it's the players you put in them that actually dictate the shape.
good point pogue. didn van gaal also talk about the strikers in the same interview?
Yeah, fo sho.
spot on. all about the movement and the interaction of players
I assume this has already been said but we would need another cb comfortable with the ball at his feet.
I'm Dutch, I've seen all the games mate. I don't know which games you are talking about, but we only pressed high up when the opponent looked weak and risked losing possession(like against Spain 2nd half), otherwise they always dropped back to own half. But if you think we played a consistent early pressing game this World Cup, then this discussion is useless, then we're on different planets.
Good lineup. Schneiderlin is a great option for the number 6 role, but I can not see Southampton letting go anymore of their players. I agree we have alot of players and the squad needs to be trimmed.
In the 1-3-4-3 system I would want to see the lineup illustrated below.
De Gea (Lindegaard)
Smalling (M. Keane) - Jones (Vermaelen) - Evans (Blackett)
Valancia* (Rafael/Varela) - Strootman/Carvalho (Carrick/Fletcher) - Herrera (Kovacic/Cleverley) - Shaw (Blind/James)
Mata (Kagawa/Januzaj)
Van Persie (Hernandez/Wilson) - Rooney (Welbeck/Young)
If the Rooney and Van Persie partnership does not gel, replace one with either Welbeck or Hernandez. Moreover keep the 1- 4-2-1-3 system as an alternative to the 1-3-4-3
I think we should stick with this for home games where we will have lots of possession and against big teams switch to 4-3-3.
Last year the problem was we had no clue what to do when we had the ball and our creative talent (mata/kagawa) was played out wide. Now they are going to be central and with the addition of Herrera, They can pick out the runs of the strikers. In any other formation, Mata cannot be properly utilised.
Last year the problem was we had no clue what to do when we had the ball and our creative talent (mata/kagawa) was played out wide. Now they are going to be central and with the addition of Herrera, They can pick out the runs of the strikers. In any other formation, Mata cannot be properly utilised.
I thought it worked well. Only concern I would have is the amount of strain it will put on the wing backs in the Premier League but we will have to see how it goes. I loved the passing and fluidity though and it does fit in well with the players we have.
and that means?
fwiw, i dont think you used consistent early pressing in the world cup. but i'm not sure that means we will use that same strategy especially since the makeup of players is not the same
Simple then, sign the players who complement the ones we have and play to their strengths . Sign a pure DM then ....
I think we'll buy another midfielder and drop Carrick back to sweeper.
Pace .
We didn't have much pace against galaxy either, especially in the 1st half. Pace is overrated if you move the ball through quick passing.
you shouldn worry about it pogue. seems like what happens when formations are discussed, we have different ideas in terms of how the same formation will work which can lead to many different conclusions. magnify that by the fact we're talking about 3-5 formations in here and it seems like a clusterfeck
and that means?
fwiw, i dont think you used consistent early pressing in the world cup. but i'm not sure that means we will use that same strategy especially since the makeup of players is not the same
Dude, you said I must not have seen the games, I said I did. That's what that means.
And I disagree. The quality might not be the same, but the makeup is. Either way, we're not going to agree here, you'll see this season.
More than the formation - it was the constant movement of players from front to back. Very late in the second half Lindegaard had the ball and you can see Fletcher telling one of the young kids to run wider. It was every player on the pitch's responsibility to move and provide angles unlike last season and dare I say even in the last couple of seasons under Fergie where only 2-3 people at most seemed to be making any concerted efforts. There seemed a real emphasis on no one player holding on to the ball for more than a few seconds, even if it meant losing possession, forward passes were attempted for the most part.
Where would Januzaj play in this formation I wonder? Hardly as a RWB?
but we didn clarify which games
(I didn't say world cup hint hint)the key is not in the agreeing or disagreeing. it's understanding what each other means. our use of language is obviously different so one word may mean something different to you than it does to me. so when you say makeup, i'm not sure you see it the same way i do
We need at least one player who can run. Welbeck was enough in the first half.
Nah, in the 3 - 5 - 2 or a 3-2-2-1-2 we played actually the central defender was the deepest of the 3 almost and the Wingbacks were playing a lot more advanced as in just slightly behind Mata - Fletcher in a line.
In a 4-4-2 diamond similar to what we played 2 seasons ago now, the back 4 played their normal role with a screener in front (Carrick and then the 2 mids in front of them played in to out connecting with the fullbacks and drifting wide from the time to time unlike Herrera or fletch yesterday.) Cleverley went towards the right and Anderson left. Also the 2 strikers upfront pulled out wide more.
It really depends on how you play it as there are several ways to each, but the dynamic of the system is different.
We had the perfect amount needed with Welbeck in their.
In what world is Welbeck a #10?
that depends on how you define a #10. Some people see them as second strikers. Welbeck has played as an SS before so not exactly a foreign concept i would say
but we didn clarify which games
the key is not in the agreeing or disagreeing. it's understanding what each other means. our use of language is obviously different so one word may mean something different to you than it does to me. so when you say makeup, i'm not sure you see it the same way i do
Right, because I can't disagree with you right? I have to not be understanding you.
And besides the World Cup Van Gaal hasn't played any meaningful games with 3-5-2, just 3 friendlies in preparations that were far from impressive against weaker teams.
This, I would prefer a 4-3-3.
huh? you really are not interpreting my words correctly.
to your second thought, the friendlies were still preparations though. would you say ghana is weaker than australia/costa rica?
4 no 10s
Rooney, Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj?
Rooney, Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj?
okay. i'm just spelling out the semantics regarding the 10 position. Some fans think Herrera is a 10 for example. Depends on your definition I say.
Though what you've said seems accurate.
Of course, you can make an argument for most, but I'd wager that's where the majority would see them, yourself included by the sounds of it.
I'd say Welbeck is more of a #9.
True #10's we have at our club: Mata, Kagawa and Rooney.
Herrera is definitely a #8
Anderson is #3.14159...
... I'll get my coat.
yep just edited my post
Yeah, Ghana were a mess in general this tournament, but even more that game as they weren't at full strength. I actually think that's the only game too that Van Gaal played 3-5-2, as Robben had just arrived. And we didn't even play well.
And I am interpreting your words just fine. But nevermind, this is pointless.