Smashley Young

I don't think they are the rules to be honest. Can you find them?

I dont have a copy of them but I'm very sure that this how the game is supposed to played and how the referees are trained to officiate!

What do you think the rules are, make contact with the opponent first and if you happen to get ball afterwards that's great!
 
I dont have a copy of them but I'm very sure that this how the game is supposed to played and how the referees are trained to officiate!

What do you think the rules are, make contact with the opponent first and if you happen to get ball afterwards that's great!

That's not the only alternative to what you are proposing in all fairness. There is contact allowed in football, I'm fairly sure of it.
 
It's not even worth it. If you've played football at any level you know that there is not a single game where the only contact results in a clean challenge. Not all contact will stop someone from continuing.

This is half the problem with diving. If people were just willing to acknowledge that their team had bought a few decisions then I think people would kick up far less fuss. But this constant debate of the tiniest touches which is apparently able to make these athletes go down is stupid, not to mention most the divers are attacking players who's ability to retain their balance is generally one of their best assets.
 
I dont have a copy of them but I'm very sure that this how the game is supposed to played and how the referees are trained to officiate!

What do you think the rules are, make contact with the opponent first and if you happen to get ball afterwards that's great!
Contact is not enough - it has to be enough to trip or push a player over. Have you ever played football?
 
You can be penalized for getting the ball first if you go through the player. Basically there isn't really a distinction between getting the ball and not getting it, that is at the referees discretion. However you're going to give a free kick away pretty much every time you miss the ball completely and impede the player, which is what happened today..
 
Fact is the ref gave a penalty but what is also a fact is that whether it was or not is widely disputed.

By the rules it's a penalty because the ref saw impeding contact, and that's why he is justified in giving it in my view. It is impossible to determine how any manner of contact directly influences any particular player's fall, so the only decision for the ref is whether or not there is sufficient contact to bring a player down, if he thinks there is, he has justification to give it.

For me, i felt it was the right decision because the defenders foot stops Young's foot from moving as he goes past him, even though he looked to be attempting to pull out of the challenge to me. Young certainly let his trailing foot clip the defender's after the initial contact to encourage a more convincing fall. But there was contact and surely a dive is only that, when there is no contact at all? Otherwise he can only really be accused of exaggerating to make sure he got the right decision.

We both know that staying on their feet often earns them nothing but 'credit from the commentators', which is of little use if you go on to lose. Reality is had Young attempted to stay on his feet and no penalty was given and we go on to lose, i doubt many people would be crediting his honesty, more likely cursing his naivety! :)
 
You can be penalized for getting the ball first if you go through the player. Basically there isn't really a distinction between getting the ball and not getting it, that is at the referees discretion. However you're going to give a free kick away pretty much every time you miss the ball completely and impede the player, which is what happened today..

I think the contrary view is that the player wanted to be impeded and made sure he was. It just seems that Young was more intent on getting contact with the player, and as you yourself said he did throw himself, I think if he was genuinely trying to get to the ball that he was in control of the fall if it came, would not have looked like that.
 
The outrage I've heard from City fans it hilarious. United might have 'cheated' in a couple of isolated incidents, but City have cheated at the entire football thing - rather like sitting down to play a game of Football Manger but heavily editing it beforehand
 
It's not even worth it. If you've played football at any level you know that there is not a single game where the only contact results in a clean challenge. Not all contact will stop someone from continuing.

This is half the problem with diving. If people were just willing to acknowledge that their team had bought a few decisions then I think people would kick up far less fuss. But this constant debate of the tiniest touches which is apparently able to make these athletes go down is stupid, not to mention most the divers are attacking players who's ability to retain their balance is generally one of their best assets.

I understand what you are saying but if you look at the black and white rules of the game it was a foul.

Yes theres going to be fouls that go unnoticed throughout any game but when a foul is given we have hundreds of cameras to see if it actually was a foul in the laws of the game and there is no debate, todaya penalty was a foul. However if you want to bring a common sense/human discretion into the decision this is a whole different thing.
 
Its worth mentioning at full speed it looked a stonewall penalty, and I am sure the Refs angle made it look even worse.
 
By the rules it's a penalty because the ref saw impeding contact, and that's why he is justified in giving it in my view. It is impossible to determine how any manner of contact directly influences any particular player's fall, so the only decision for the ref is whether or not there is sufficient contact to bring a player down, if he thinks there is, he has justification to give it.

For me, i felt it was the right decision because the defenders foot stops Young's foot from moving as he goes past him, even though he looked to be attempting to pull out of the challenge to me. Young certainly let his trailing foot clip the defender's after the initial contact to encourage a more convincing fall. But there was contact and surely a dive is only that, when there is no contact at all? Otherwise he can only really be accused of exaggerating to make sure he got the right decision.

We both know that staying on their feet often earns them nothing but 'credit from the commentators', which is of little use if you go on to lose. Reality is had Young attempted to stay on his feet and no penalty was given and we go on to lose, i doubt many people would be crediting his honesty, more likely cursing his naivety! :)

Yes, it was a penalty because the ref gave it, of course. We are here and it's now. I'm not judging him, just calling it as I see it. I have no interest in cloaking it in vague terms. All I'm saying is that he dived, or 'let his trailing foot hit the defenders' which is the same to me, but I don't see it as any worse than Hutton's tackle. The thing that does bother me is the effect this will have on the game, not sure if it will be good or bad, but it will change the mentality of defenders. We might see less tackles and more goals but I'm not sure that's solely what makes football great.
 
I understand what you are saying but if you look at the black and white rules of the game it was a foul.

Yes theres going to be fouls that go unnoticed throughout any game but when a foul is given we have hundreds of cameras to see if it actually was a foul in the laws of the game and there is no debate, todaya penalty was a foul. However if you want to bring a common sense/human discretion into the decision this is a whole different thing.

You are wrong again. Stop making up the rules.
 
Contact is not enough - it has to be enough to trip or push a player over. Have you ever played football?

What!! Are you serious foot on foot contact at any sort of pace is always going to be sufficient to impede the attacking player from completing what his intentions were. And yes I have played football!!
 
You are wrong again. Stop making up the rules.

Nope he is correct on that one. Rule twelve: FOULS AND MISCONDUCT: Direct free kick: "trips or attempts to trip an opponent". He stood on Young's foot so he clearly tripped him.
 
Its worth mentioning at full speed it looked a stonewall penalty, and I am sure the Refs angle made it look even worse.
No it didn't. No way would any clearly minor contact cause a player to spreadeagle himself with all limbs off the ground in a classic starfish.
 
Nope he is correct on that one. Rule twelve: FOULS AND MISCONDUCT: Direct free kick: "trips or attempts to trip an opponent". He stood on Young's foot so he clearly tripped him.

That implies some willful action on the part of the defender, not just contact.
 
What!! Are you serious foot on foot contact at any sort of pace is always going to be sufficient to impede the attacking player from completing what his intentions were. And yes I have played football!!
He wasn't moving at pace and didn't need to fall over on being touched let alone fly into the air. How many pens did your team get for shit like that?
 
Just watched it properly on Match of the Day (with various angles). I hadn't seen the contact on Young's right foot before.

It's probably a penalty. Got no problem with Young going down under that contact, let the ref make the decision. feck off the rest of you.
 
I understand what you are saying but if you look at the black and white rules of the game it was a foul.

Yes theres going to be fouls that go unnoticed throughout any game but when a foul is given we have hundreds of cameras to see if it actually was a foul in the laws of the game and there is no debate, todaya penalty was a foul. However if you want to bring a common sense/human discretion into the decision this is a whole different thing.

Fair enough, I can see your side to, which makes this such a tough topic, however I don't think that the contact there is enough to actually impede him. If he had wanted to he could have carried on. It wasn't like say Shane Long yesterday where he was clearly being fouled and impeded and tried to go on and didn't score, I think that Young could easily have continued as if he wasn't touched and for me that makes it not a foul. I don't blame him for going down as it's what you'd expect, but I just have issue with claiming the contact was actually enough to impede him, which it wasn't imo.
 
Contact is not enough - it has to be enough to trip or push a player over. Have you ever played football?

Depends what level to have any relevance. Surely the standard of officiating in a world televised top PL fixture cannot have much relevance or bear much comparison to how the Sunday league game is handled! ;)

By all the rules, made worse by the Eduardo saga, contact of any kind can be justification for going down and nobody can be accused of diving because of that, unless there is provably no contact whatsoever. That is diving and is undeniably cheating. But exaggerating contact is not cheating, no more than claiming for a throw in or a goal kick that you know very well should be your opponents! Or even shirt pulling? All cheating by way of trying to gain an advantage by conning the ref into giving your team a favourable decision.

Don't you ever remember doing that Pete, you know while you were playing football? :p
 
Depends what level to have any relevance. Surely the standard of officiating in a world televised top PL fixture cannot have much relevance or bear much comparison to how the Sunday league game is handled! ;)

Is it part of the ethos of the game that the rules apply all the way from bottom up?
 
We are talking about that second foot again! Not the first contact!!

I'm talking about the whole thing, Young looked for it, the defender did nowt except be a bit shit in my opinion. I don't think he did enough to constitute tripping Young. I'd be very pissed off if it was given against us.
 
No it didn't. No way would any clearly minor contact cause a player to spreadeagle himself with all limbs off the ground in a classic starfish.

No one is arguing Young made a big tasty meal of it BUT there was contact and he was impeded. Considering the run he was on the ref was bound to give the penalty.

Like someone else said the best outcome would have been a penalty and a card for the over simulation by Young.
 
I think there are two separate issues here. There was contact no doubt and him going down, in keeping with what virtually every player does today is one thing. But my issue is people saying that the contact was actually enough to impede him. You get contact like that all the time. He was virtually still when it happened, there's no reason it should trip him, certainly not in the way he went down. He bought the free kick, that's the point. He could have played on, uninhibited but he chose to go down. I don't really have the issue with him choosing that, I wish that wasn't how the game is but that's how it is, but I can't see how anyone can seriously think that would actually impede him enough to be a foul.
 
Fair enough, I can see your side to, which makes this such a tough topic, however I don't think that the contact there is enough to actually impede him. If he had wanted to he could have carried on. It wasn't like say Shane Long yesterday where he was clearly being fouled and impeded and tried to go on and didn't score, I think that Young could easily have continued as if he wasn't touched and for me that makes it not a foul. I don't blame him for going down as it's what you'd expect, but I just have issue with claiming the contact was actually enough to impede him, which it wasn't imo.

Oh theres no question, it was nothing like enough to bring him down like the way he did but I would guess 90% of the attacking players in the PL would have looked for a penalty in that exact same situation.

It's not for the manutd players to attempt to cut this out of the game it's for the FA and other football bodies.
 
Some people really do not get the whole forum thing. It's a blog you be wanting matey.
It's a forum! You're free to have your opinion, I'm free to tell you to feck off ;)

Considering it's a United forum and I'm defending a United player, I'm well within my rights.

Peno!
 
No one is arguing Young made a big tasty meal of it BUT there was contact and he was impeded. Considering the run he was on the ref was bound to give the penalty.

Like someone else said the best outcome would have been a penalty and a card for the over simulation by Young.

For some reason i'm thinking FIFA don't allow this, apparently they don't see 'exaggeration' as simulation I heard on the radio lately, I think. Personally I see no real difference.
 
Depends what level to have any relevance. Surely the standard of officiating in a world televised top PL fixture cannot have much relevance or bear much comparison to how the Sunday league game is handled!
Obviously not since I don't remember any clear goal over-not-over feck-ups in 20 years of it. The relevance is more about how much contact it takes to put a player over, they don't go down under a nothing touch like the Villa defender's unless they want to.
 
how much of this do you think the refs see in a season.

They are seeing this in real time and either giving or not giving the penalty.

opinions are divided as to the incident.


as it always will be. we had penalties not given us for another incident.

so the real fuss is that Young 'dived'...or made a meal of it.

I have seen our players appeal for penalties and not given...


simply some are given some are not.


and Young does not get all the calls either.
 
Not even an inquiry on his health after being savagely brought down into the area like that either. For shame, caftards.
 
Yes, it was a penalty because the ref gave it, of course. We are here and it's now. I'm not judging him, just calling it as I see it. I have no interest in cloaking it in vague terms. All I'm saying is that he dived, or 'let his trailing foot hit the defenders' which is the same to me, but I don't see it as any worse than Hutton's tackle. The thing that does bother me is the effect this will have on the game, not sure if it will be good or bad, but it will change the mentality of defenders. We might see less tackles and more goals but I'm not sure that's solely what makes football great.

No it doesn't make football great, but it hardly makes it terrible and you cannot escape it. In almost every other country worldwide, exaggerating contact to ensure the right decision is given is considered perfectly acceptable. It is only feigning contact that is considered cheating. You see it right across Europe, South America, pretty much everywhere and why? Because staying on your feet earns you nothing 99/100.

It seems in this country we have a completely different attitude to what constitutes diving compared to pretty much everyone else. It may not be good for the game, but it certainly doesn't do the PL product or the CL's popularity any harm.

not saying i agree with it moses don't get me wrong, but i don't really see how player's or ref's have much choice. If the ref is convinced it's a penalty, he has to give it, and from the player's perspective if he feels he should have a penalty for an impediment, then he is surely going to do all he can to make sure justice (in his view of course) is done.
 
It's a forum! You're free to have your opinion, I'm free to tell you to feck off ;)

Considering it's a United forum and I'm defending a United player, I'm well within my rights.

Peno!

If this is a competition to show off what we are 'free' to do, you'll lose. So less of the glib posts with the insult pinned on the end.
 
Oh theres no question, it was nothing like enough to bring him down like the way he did but I would guess 90% of the attacking players in the PL would have looked for a penalty in that exact same situation.

It's not for the manutd players to attempt to cut this out of the game it's for the FA and other football bodies.

Right ok, well I agree with that.