Yes, but you love cheats and cheating.
Smashley Young
- Thread starter Red Defence
- Start date
Yes, but you love cheats and cheating.
Well thats an exaggeration, it's not as if we had two of our players fighting each other on the pitch.
2 things.
1. Had Young carried on the running trajectory he would still have been impeded, clipped by the defender as so, given the hindsight of technology, I think technically, it was a penalty. However, Young's reaction was completely disproportionate to the foul committed against him. The problem he and other attacking players face is that when they are genuinely impeded, but make less of it, invariably the ref gives the defender the benefit of doubt. So they feel the need to accentuate fouls against them to ensure they get the correct decision. I think a fair decision here would have been the awarding of a penalty and Young being shown a yellow card for theatrics. I wonder if that has ever happened.
2. I wrote this in the match thread: in the 2nd half, we had claims for a far more blatant penalty when the ball clearly hits the Villa defender from over 10 yards from where our player makes contact. Its is as clear as can be. The ref or linesman cannot miss it. And yet Villa get away with it, either because the officials never saw it (unlikely I think), because they though it was unintentional (seeing the replay, he defender has more than enough time to remove his hands and arms from the balls direction) or more likely, because even without psychologically realizing it, they were 'evening things out' over the match. And yet of course that moment goes now unnoticed and we are just left talking about decisions that go in our favor (a few) vs the many many that go against us.
No, I accept it as part of the game. I always have done
Hmmm... I dunno. Pissed me right off when Young got clattered by that cnut, Hutton but I rather enjoyed Carrick going through the back of Gardner.
It is cheating. You have no problem with it. In fact, you encourage it.
Gay.
Carrick had a great game today. I just wish he would pull the trigger more often. He has a great shot on him, he should use it more.
Talk about high and mighty!
It would be a curiosity if people were not constant hypocrites that are not able to see past the end of their own nose.
'Cheating is alright..........unless it is done well'
Makes up for what we didn't get vs Wigan. I could defend Young vs QPR, this one not so much.
I'm not particularly arsed though.
I'm not particularly arsed though.
It's only because it's Young, a large section of the caf didn't rate him and didn't want him here so they're being little bitches.
Nani has had some god awful dives in the past and I can't ever remember the caf slating him to the same extent. Same with Rooney and even Hernandez
I was pissed off with his dive against QPR but I was pissed off within reason. I just can't fathom how so many grown men can have a bitchy dislike of one of our own players
Bullshit.
Stop it now, it's getting ridiculous.
Bang on.
If you ask me Ryan Taylor should focus on Steven Taylor's tendency to block shots with his hands and go down holding his chest to disguise it. Is that any better than Young going down easily? At least there was contact with Young. Its amazing how many self-righteous people come out of the woodwork when its Man Utd.
When Welbeck made the most of contact against Chelsea it was defended. They both knew the defender had made a mistake by leaving a foot out and went over it.
When Welbeck made the most of contact against Chelsea it was defended. They both knew the defender had made a mistake by leaving a foot out and went over it.
Who defended it?
I have been very critical of Young's diving. I have never once said I didn't want him here. Or that I don't rate him. Young is getting shit for being a cheat. Not because he's Ashley Young. If any of our other players start to dive serially I will criticise them, too.
The entire caf on that day. My post wasn't directed just at you, I have no idea what you have/haven't done. My point is we've had plenty of awful dives go our own down the years (as has any team) and never have we had this level of shit thrown at a player.
Why? Because the players who have dived have been popular. I just don't believe that if Welbeck had made the most of a challenge like Young did today then he'd have been called a cheat and slated.
More to the point it was a terrible dive by Young today as he made it look more of a dive than it was. If you watch the defender he sticks his leg out and stamps on his foot, Nani would have made that look like a proper foul
Surprise surprise Alan Greene as made it the center piece of 606.But no biters yet.
Seriously who cares? Players dive. Loads of players dive. "Sinners" like Sergi Busquets and Ronaldo dive, "saints" like Gerrard and Messi dive. Young played for the penalty he didn't think he'd get the ball so he got the man. Big deal. That's basic tactics in La Liga and Serie A. He gave the ref a decision to make and the ref made it in our favour. So what? People are acting like it was 'a Gilardino' and he took two steps and fell down two yards from the nearest Villa player. Give over!
As long as you have absolutely no problem when an opposition player dives to get one of our players sent off, or to win a penalty, that's fine.
When Welbeck made the most of contact against Chelsea it was defended. They both knew the defender had made a mistake by leaving a foot out and went over it.
Whether or not 'he made the most out of it', given the evidence in front of us, its a clear obstruction inside the penalty box and so a penalty. End of.
I don't think a situation like Young today would raise much (press) controversy in La Liga, Serie A, etc.
Personally, I wouldn't bitch if we conceded a penalty in the same circumstances.
However, I can see that we are likely to be refused a penalty from now on should Young be involved. Amusing how extravagantly he "dives" though...
Im sorry if it winds you up a bit that someone doesnt like players from United engaging in gamesmanship of the lowest order. I prefer when we can take the moral high ground against players like Suarez, Gerrard, Busquets and Drogba (back in the day - hes also cut most of that out of his game), but when we have a major offender in our own squad its kinda hypocritical to whine about other teams' players.
Gaining penalties like this is embarassing, especially when its against honest teams like QPR and Villa, who we could have easily beaten without resorting to shit like this.
I seem to remember you being one of the biggest critics of both Ronaldo and Nani when they were the main perpetrators btw. Whats different now? Young being British?
It's only because it's Young, a large section of the caf didn't rate him and didn't want him here so they're being little bitches.
Nani has had some god awful dives in the past and I can't ever remember the caf slating him to the same extent. Same with Rooney and even Hernandez
I was pissed off with his dive against QPR but I was pissed off within reason. I just can't fathom how so many grown men can have a bitchy dislike of one of our own players
Pathetic.
That was a penalty today. He emphasised the fall to make sure he got it but it wasn't even a dive. And by the way, I know he's a diving twat. I called the dive against QPR before seeing any replay purely based on the fact it was Young. He didn't dive today though.
Does me having a problem with it or not have any influence over whether or not its happened that players have dived against us and will continue to do so in the future? No.
When Newcastle got that penalty against us that never earlier in the season did their players sprint over to the ref to correct the decision? No. When Hernandez got cleaned out against Stoke at the Britannia and we should've had a penalty did the Stoke players put their hands up and say 'ref peno'. No. Did Wigan fess up on Wednesday that the ball went out off Maloney not off Jones in the run up to their goal? No.
Everyone takes advantage of it when luck swings their way even if they know they are in the wrong. So if we're going to be on the end of it when other teams play the rules to their advantage I don't see why we should punish ourselves for doing it.
It annoys me, those antics, because I can't stand cheating and diving, and it takes a lot of pleasure out of a win for me.
Today would have been a perfect day, now all everyone talks about is the Young dive, which obviously was a dive, clear as a day, and never a pen(he kicks his foot into Clark), and of course it's understandable. Same story vs QPR.
We would've won both matches anyway, by all probability, and then Young spoils a bit of the fun. It's embarassing to see a player in our side go down like that, and I'll never condone that.
Hopefully SAF gives him a bit of a bashing behind closed doors, he needs to cut it out.
And he's always been a diver, Young. Called it years ago.
Today would have been a perfect day, now all everyone talks about is the Young dive, which obviously was a dive, clear as a day, and never a pen(he kicks his foot into Clark), and of course it's understandable. Same story vs QPR.
We would've won both matches anyway, by all probability, and then Young spoils a bit of the fun. It's embarassing to see a player in our side go down like that, and I'll never condone that.
Hopefully SAF gives him a bit of a bashing behind closed doors, he needs to cut it out.
And he's always been a diver, Young. Called it years ago.
Because that's the point of being a football fan. Neutrality.
Your examples have nothing in common with when a player dives for a penalty. Theres no deliberate conning of the referees in your examples.
The point is, if you are fine with it when Young does it, you are in no position to complain if, say, Suarez does it against us.
There was contact, he made a meal of it but at the end of the day it was a penalty. Strikers are taught from an early age to go down when there is contact like that. Ashley is just a little dramatic with his execution.
The "point" seems to be, that hypocrisy is awesome.
No, but then those people can at least admit that they are biased and know it, and that they dont care that United players do whatever needed to get wins, even if that means cheating to win penalties and get opposition players sent off.
And understand that taking that stance, they are hypocrites if they get outraged when non-United players cheat.
Since when?
That's just football in general though. If someone dives on your team and you get the decision, it's contact or they didn't see. If it goes against you it's a dive or soft etc. Same with hard tackles, bad decisions etc. Football is full of hypocrites both on and off the field.
No they are not.
Young beat him, that was the defenders only 'crime'. Forget analysing Young's movements, look at the defender. He stands up, is beaten and he does feck all.
edit - I'm not judging Young. I still see Hutton's challenge as more of a blight on the game, but the defender did feck all wrong apart from be a bit shit.
He should look at his own club and Ben Arfa who actually did it against us. Every club has divers. it does make me laugh when other teams and supporters moan. its not like they shit don't stink as well. The amount of Liverpool supporter moaning was class. They are one of the worse for divers.
Do you think it was a penalty moses?