Smashley Young

I thought it was pretty disgraceful to be honest. It was such an obvious dive and when the ref blew his whistle I was certain he'd give Young the booking he deserved.

Awful decision by Mason and his linesman.
 
Like cw I thought the ref blew up for the dive. I only realised when he whipped the red card out.

Lee Mason has always struck me as someone who gives alot of home decisions though so wasn't too surprised.

Young needs to cut it out of his game. He's done it a few times this season but now he'll come under a bit of scrutiny.
 
The White Pele said:
Like cw I thought the ref blew up for the dive. I only realised when he whipped the red card out.

Lee Mason has always struck me as someone who gives alot of home decisions though so wasn't too surprised.

Young needs to cut it out of his game. He's done it a few times this season but now he'll come under a bit of scrutiny.
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Yup. Once the media go for him he'll go through a period of not getting any decisions. Even when they're fouls.

He's fortunate that he's English.
 
The White Pele said:
Like cw I thought the ref blew up for the dive. I only realised when he whipped the red card out.

Lee Mason has always struck me as someone who gives alot of home decisions though so wasn't too surprised.

Young needs to cut it out of his game. He's done it a few times this season but now he'll come under a bit of scrutiny.
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I actually thought he had sent young off for about 2 seconds. Indefensible really if it was against us and Evans had got sent off, we would have been livid. Saying that we won, and the title looks to be on the way.
 
cw1984 said:
I thought it was pretty disgraceful to be honest. It was such an obvious dive and when the ref blew his whistle I was certain he'd give Young the booking he deserved.

Awful decision by Mason and his linesman.
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Well, you can't put your hands on another player. There's nothing in the rules about a 'small' shove. It was a dive, and before that it was offside, but on its own merits it was a justifiable penalty.
 
Will Absolute said:
Well, you can't put your hands on another player. There's nothing in the rules about a 'small' shove. It was a dive, and before that it was offside, but on its own merits it was a justifiable penalty.
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I disagree. It is a contact sport at the end of the day and whilst I saw Derry's hand make contact with Young it was certainly not a "shove".
 
Clear dive. It was a poor play for the officials all the way around. Offside, dive, red card. It was a game changer really.
 
Vidic and Rio push and touch the opposition players all the time. No way was than a pen, otherwise you will have 6 of those in every match.
 
offside
dive
defender pulled the shirt
contact/trip



so it shouldn't've stood on account of the offside, which is the lino's fault

Vidic was sent off at Portsmouth for no less.

I think I'm going to cry for Marky and QPR
 
crappycraperson said:
Vidic and Rio push and touch the opposition players all the time. No way was than a pen, otherwise you will have 6 of those in every match.
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Exactly.

Over the years we've turned a blind eye to players going down easily (slight trip etc) as you could at least argue that it would be enough to knock the player off balance but blatent dives should not be tolerated IMO and the fact Will Absolute feels there was enough contact their to justify going down is quite worrying.

if the authorities don't act on this quickly it seriously won't be long before it's a non-contact sport.
 
I may get slated for this but to be frank I don't care if Young sold the contact. I should and I would be royally annoyed if that penalty was given against us but you'd have to be a fool to keep playing by the rules in a game in which everyone else cheats. Diving has become part of the game. Its not pretty but it has. Everyone from Stevie Starfish onwards does it.

Considering some of the decisions that we have had given against us, the mind still remembers the free kick that never was at Stamford Bridge in 09/10 that led to their clearly offside goal, I have no guilt about buying a decision off a ref. Ashley Young felt or saw a tug at his shirt and he gave the ref a decision to make. The decision was called in our favour. It happens. I don't felt the slightest pang of guilt about it.

Barcelona who are supposed to be Joga Bonito exemplified dive all the time. If they can do it incessantly and still be lauded for 'playing the game in the right way' I don't see what the issue is with Young going down softly.
 
cw1984 said:
Exactly.

Over the years we've turned a blind eye to players going down easily (slight trip etc) as you could at least argue that it would be enough to knock the player off balance but blatent dives should not be tolerated IMO and the fact Will Absolute feels there was enough contact their to justify going down is quite worrying.

if the authorities don't act on this quickly it seriously won't be long before it's a non-contact sport.
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I think there should be some knid of retrospective action for cheats and divers. The sport has do something, otherwise its going to become a sham.
 
crappycraperson said:
Vidic and Rio push and touch the opposition players all the time. No way was than a pen, otherwise you will have 6 of those in every match.
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They do. In the argy bargy of a crowded penalty area or in a struggle for the ball.

This is a very different situation. Young is in possession and running in on goal, the defender is nowhere, but he reaches to put a hand on Young's body to unbalance him. My understanding is that a player can't be touched in those circumstances.

If the defender is entitled to lay hands on the forward where do you draw the line? How much pressure per square inch is the defender allowed to exert on the forwards body before it becomes a foul?

My reply to Plech's post sounded more sarky than intended. Apologies.
 
Will Absolute said:
They do. In the argy bargy of a crowded penalty area or in a struggle for the ball.

This is a very different situation. Young is in possession and running in on goal, the defender is nowhere, but he reaches to put a hand on Young's body to unbalance him. My understanding is that a player can't be touched in those circumstances.

If the defender is entitled to lay hands on the forward where do you draw the line? How much pressure per square inch is the defender allowed to exert on the forwards body before it becomes a foul?

My reply to Plech's post sounded more sarky than intended. Apologies.
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If the pressure is enough to unbalance or stop his run.. I don't think this was anywhere near that level in this case hence the need for Young to dive. Young did not even wllow the defender to actually unbalance him, as soon as the defender put his hand on him, he was down like a house of cards.

And look at how Rio handled Torres for a couple of years, plenty of contact even using his hands even when Torres was making runs. Torres dived quite a number of times them but thankfully ref then used his brains.
 
Will Absolute said:
They do. In the argy bargy of a crowded penalty area or in a struggle for the ball.

This is a very different situation. Young is in possession and running in on goal, the defender is nowhere, but he reaches to put a hand on Young's body to unbalance him. My understanding is that a player can't be touched in those circumstances.

If the defender is entitled to lay hands on the forward where do you draw the line? How much pressure per square inch is the defender allowed to exert on the forwards body before it becomes a foul?

My reply to Plech's post sounded more sarky than intended. Apologies.
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Hehe, don't worry, I liked it!

But the truth is that it is a contact sport, there's nothing in the rules about not being able to touch people, it's understood that players will knock and rub (:nervous:) against each other as they compete for the ball.

What you're not allowed to do is push people, trip them etc. There's no precise point when one becomes the other and it's up to the ref to decide whether it's ordinary contact or one of these types of illegal contact. Obviously that decision is made much harder when the player touched deliberately goes flying to make it look like they've been fouled.
 
gaffs said:
I think there should be some knid of retrospective action for cheats and divers. The sport has do something, otherwise its going to become a sham.
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I agree. I just don't know how they'll go about it though as clubs will always try and get out of it.

Unfortunately the Eduardo v Celtic incident has set a terrible precident for the sport.
 
#07 said:
I may get slated for this but to be frank I don't care if Young sold the contact. I should and I would be royally annoyed if that penalty was given against us but you'd have to be a fool to keep playing by the rules in a game in which everyone else cheats. Diving has become part of the game. Its not pretty but it has. Everyone from Stevie Starfish onwards does it.

Considering some of the decisions that we have had given against us, the mind still remembers the free kick that never was at Stamford Bridge in 09/10 that led to their clearly offside goal, I have no guilt about buying a decision off a ref. Ashley Young felt or saw a tug at his shirt and he gave the ref a decision to make. The decision was called in our favour. It happens. I don't felt the slightest pang of guilt about it.

Barcelona who are supposed to be Joga Bonito exemplified dive all the time. If they can do it incessantly and still be lauded for 'playing the game in the right way' I don't see what the issue is with Young going down softly.
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i was going to say i reluctantly agree...but i just can't get myself to do it. very good points though.
 
#07 said:
I may get slated for this but to be frank I don't care if Young sold the contact. I should and I would be royally annoyed if that penalty was given against us but you'd have to be a fool to keep playing by the rules in a game in which everyone else cheats. Diving has become part of the game. Its not pretty but it has. Everyone from Stevie Starfish onwards does it.

Considering some of the decisions that we have had given against us, the mind still remembers the free kick that never was at Stamford Bridge in 09/10 that led to their clearly offside goal, I have no guilt about buying a decision off a ref. Ashley Young felt or saw a tug at his shirt and he gave the ref a decision to make. The decision was called in our favour. It happens. I don't felt the slightest pang of guilt about it.

Barcelona who are supposed to be Joga Bonito exemplified dive all the time. If they can do it incessantly and still be lauded for 'playing the game in the right way' I don't see what the issue is with Young going down softly.
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It's a shitty development, diving. Anything that makes me livid when other teams do it, I hate to see any of ours at it. Just because it gains us an advantage doesn't mean you have to like it. It was a blatent dive and it handed us the game. We're better than that.
 
I hate diving. I think it's disgusting. To be honest, I lost a bit of respect for Young after that. There was no need for it.
 
I'll have to suspend judgement on the "dive" - can't get to replay the game until after midnight over hear. What I was most concerned about was the lack of an offside call, given that it seemed pretty clear. I've always been loathe to criticize the officials - it's an incredibly difficult job - but this (and the Chelsea-Wigan one yesterday) I just find hard to explain. If the Assistant makes the call, the "dive" is moot. (Having said all that, I've no doubt we were going to win anyway.)
 
I hate diving too but it has been with us for years now. What I also hate is all the hand-wringing and anguish as soon as a United player does it - and on here worst of all. Young made the most of having his foot clipped and shirt pulled. I wonder how many times that will happen before the end of season with barely a mention?

After years of Bummers' antics and Stevie Starfish to name but two I won't be losing any sleep over this. Ruined the game as a spectacle? feck me, they barely got out of their own penalty area, never mind their own half in the first 15mins before the red card and had little intention of doing so. If anything, it had an adverse effect on United's performance.

For those that missed it, an interesting perspective from Gary Nev a few days ago so not directly linked to yesterday but nonetheless interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-dive-laugh--zero-tolerance-wont-ground.html
 
The linesman was at fault more than the referee and the players. It was a clear offside.

Young was pushed slightly by the defender, who put his arm out towards Young. It's a hard one for the referee to get right.
 
surf said:
The linesman was at fault more than the referee and the players. It was a clear offside.

Young was pushed slightly by the defender, who put his arm out towards Young. It's a hard one for the referee to get right.
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Is it? Is it really? It was pretty easy from where I was sat.

Of course it should have been flagged offside but it wasn't. The linesman's error here doesn't mean the referee should get away with making such a poor decision.
 
cw1984 said:
Is it? Is it really? It was pretty easy from where I was sat.

Of course it should have been flagged offside but it wasn't. The linesman's error here doesn't mean the referee should get away with making such a poor decision.
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I think the ref thought it was easy too, when he saw the shirt tugged and Young's foot clipped. They do tend to focus on infringement rather than theatrics and in my book not a penalty......but then again, I probably wouldn't give at least half the penalties that are awarded. Nothing new. Vidic was sent off at Portsmouth for a tug of a shirt with their player going nowhere. It's a pretty stupid thing to do given that a ref is quite likely to blow for a shirt tug. Unless you're Carragher or Big Man.
 
I fecking cringed when I saw the replay. That was horrible and uncalled for. What's worse is Young would've had a decent chance at scoring had he stayed on his feet and tried to get his shot off, instead he opted to try and win a pen and got an opponent unfairly sent off.

It's a horrendous decision by Mason, but my anger is obviously directed at Young. He made Mason look a tit in public by throwing himself to the floor like that.

It's no need for it, and if we can't win against QPR at home without resorting to these antics, it's fecking cringeworthy. Young dives around a lot, I wish he'd fecking stop it because it's embarassing.
 
I think you're being a bunch of judgemental twats.

If you're pushed in the box and can't get the ball, you go down or you get nothing. Simple.
 
RK said:
I think you're being a bunch of judgemental twats.

If you're pushed in the box and can't get the ball, you go down or you get nothing. Simple.
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:wenger:
 
cw1984 said:
Is it? Is it really? It was pretty easy from where I was sat.

Of course it should have been flagged offside but it wasn't. The linesman's error here doesn't mean the referee should get away with making such a poor decision.
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Of course it was an easy decision from where you were sat, you were sat at home watching it on TV, getting the benefit of multiple slowed down replays, from multiple angles. Have you refereed a game before? It's not as easy making a call when you see it once, at full speed and you have to make a quick judgement call. All decisions are easy to make from the sofa with multiple angle replays.
 
there was enough contact with Young's foot and his shirt for him to be caught off balance. He made the most of it or if you prefer, dived. It happens umpteen times every weekend. I'd rather United players didn't do this but they are certainly no more culpable than other teams and a lot less than some. I presume you're just as anguished when we are victims of poor decsions?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-dive-laugh--zero-tolerance-wont-ground.html
 
The Neviller said:
Of course it was an easy decision from where you were sat, you were sat at home watching it on TV, getting the benefit of multiple slowed down replays, from multiple angles. Have you refereed a game before? It's not as easy making a call when you see it once, at full speed and you have to make a quick judgement call. All decisions are easy to make from the sofa with multiple angle replays.
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As I've already stated. As soon as he went down I thought "dive" and actually thought that's what the ref had given until I saw the colour of the card.

It was a shocking decision.
 
cw1984 said:
As I've already stated. As soon as he went down I thought "dive" and actually thought that's what the ref had given until I saw the colour of the card.

It was a shocking decision.
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From where you were sat.

As I asked, ever refereed a game before?
 
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