Skizzo vs RedTiger @ Lords

Who will win the ODI?

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
Donaldo said:
It really shouldn't be. RT's batting is diabolical.
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That's true but to me his bowling looks better and also has better variation and hence it is close. Maybe that's how others are seeing too.
Franklin, Styris, Johnson and Broad all can bat but if Franklin is at 6 and top 5 have Dippenar and Sarwan, it is very weak batting lineup. Given RT is chasing, I am leaning towards Skizzo here.
 
I'm going by the character of the players and my experience of having seen them play. You will understandably refer to country specific averages but I'm not going by stats alone.
 
Donaldo said:
The XIs:

@Skizzo : 1. Gayle 2. Jayasuriya 3. Trott 4. Inzamam 5. DJ Bravo 6. Jonty Rhodes 7. Rod Marsh 8. Southee 9. McDermott 10. Murali 11. Tsotsobe

@RedTiger : 1. Amla 2. Gilchrist 3. Dippenaar 4. Miandad 5. Sarwan 6. Franklin 7. Styris 8. Mitchell Johnson 9. Broad 10. Vaas 11. Kumble


RT's batting is way too weak for me to even consider him. He shudders to a halt at Sarwan, who himself is one of the most frustrating talents. Zero application and zero consistency. Franklin shouldn't be counted as a batsman IMO, nor should Styris for their one off knocks.

So what you have us basically a whole load of pressure on Amla and Miandad to build an innings and stay there till the end. Gilly will do as Gilly does, and Dippenaar is just about ok.
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Skizzo doesn't have an all star batting line up either though. 6 batsmen vs 5 with RT having 3 absolute class players vs 1 for skizzo.
 
Varun said:
Skizzo doesn't have an all star batting line up either though. 6 batsmen vs 5 with RT having 3 absolute class players vs 1 for skizzo.
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True, but I really don't rate RT's batting. Trott, Inzy, Gayle, Sanath have each been the best ODI batsmen in the world at some point or the other.
 
Donaldo said:
True, but I really don't rate RT's batting. Trott, Inzy, Gayle, Sanath have each been the best ODI batsmen in the world at some point or the other.
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None of them were ever the best in the world at any point. Inzy is the only one who can claim to have come close followed by Jayasuriya. Gayle is too hit and miss especially in these conditions for my liking. Trott is solid.

Though he has an extra batsman is Rhodes, I it's too close with RT maybe even edging it imo due to the sheer class he has in Amla, Gilly and Miandad.
 
Varun said:
None of them were ever the best in the world at any point. Inzy is the only one who can claim to have come close followed by Jayasuriya. Gayle is too hit and miss especially in these conditions for my liking. Trott is solid.

Though he has an extra batsman is Rhodes, I it's too close with RT maybe even edging it imo due to the sheer class he has in Amla, Gilly and Miandad.
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I meant it more in the literal sense that they were ranked the highest in the ratings for the time,although that might not be the case with Gayle.

Watching Inzy and Jonty running between the wickets would be worth the price of admission :lol:
 
Wow, this is close. I am inclined to vote for Skizzo's team. Maybe I will.
 
Donaldo said:
I meant it more in the literal sense that they were ranked the highest in the ratings for the time,although that might not be the case with Gayle.

Watching Inzy and Jonty running between the wickets would be worth the price of admission :lol:
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Don't forget Gayle :lol:
 
Donaldo said:
It really shouldn't be. RT's batting is diabolical.
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@Skizzo : 1. Gayle 2. Jayasuriya 3. Trott 4. Inzamam 5. DJ Bravo 6. Jonty Rhodes 7. Rod Marsh 8. Southee 9. McDermott 10. Murali 11. Tsotsobe

@RedTiger : 1. Amla 2. Gilchrist 3. Dippenaar 4. Miandad 5. Sarwan 6. Franklin 7. Styris 8. Mitchell Johnson 9. Broad 10. Vaas 11. Kumble

Gilly/Miandad /Sarvan against McDermott/ Murali/Southee, i don't see much issue with that batting.
RT got better bowling unit comparatively but again Skizzo's top 4 really good + Jonty.
Skizzo could have played Inzy at one down and should have moved trott at 4 to join Jonty /Bravo.
 
Varun said:
None of them were ever the best in the world at any point. Inzy is the only one who can claim to have come close followed by Jayasuriya. Gayle is too hit and miss especially in these conditions for my liking. Trott is solid.

Though he has an extra batsman is Rhodes, I it's too close with RT maybe even edging it imo due to the sheer class he has in Amla, Gilly and Miandad.
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RT has more superstars but Skizzo's batting has better balance. Decent openers who can set a brisk pace, followed by two solid players who can anchor parts of an innings. Rhodes is a reasonable follow up to that, not sure about Bravo. Both teams lack good finishers anyway. Skizzo bats first and with his bowlers a large total will be hard to chase. Plus the Rhodes factor. Though neither team is great at this stage.
 
Donaldo said:
The XIs:

@Skizzo : 1. Gayle 2. Jayasuriya 3. Trott 4. Inzamam 5. DJ Bravo 6. Jonty Rhodes 7. Rod Marsh 8. Southee 9. McDermott 10. Murali 11. Tsotsobe

@RedTiger : 1. Amla 2. Gilchrist 3. Dippenaar 4. Miandad 5. Sarwan 6. Franklin 7. Styris 8. Mitchell Johnson 9. Broad 10. Vaas 11. Kumble


RT's batting is way too weak for me to even consider him. He shudders to a halt at Sarwan, who himself is one of the most frustrating talents. Zero application and zero consistency. Franklin shouldn't be counted as a batsman IMO, nor should Styris for their one off knocks.

So what you have us basically a whole load of pressure on Amla and Miandad to build an innings and stay there till the end. Gilly will do as Gilly does, and Dippenaar is just about ok.
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I don't think you are being fair on Styris. He doesn't produce on-off knocks. He was one of NZ's more consistent batsmen at that time. Only problem is Styris used to play much much higher up than at 7 (I think he played at 3-5). So his talents are slightly wasted. Franklin can be a hard hitter, which is exactly what you need chasing a game in the death. I don't like RT's batting order though. Misbah should have come in. Sarwan at 3, Miandad at 4, Misbah at 5 and Styris at 6 would have won them this game.
 
Ijazz17 said:
I don't think you are being fair on Styris. He doesn't produce on-off knocks. He was one of NZ's more consistent batsmen at that time. Only problem is Styris used to play much much higher up than at 7 (I think he played at 3-5). So his talents are slightly wasted. Franklin can be a hard hitter, which is exactly what you need chasing a game in the death. I don't like RT's batting order though. Misbah should have come in. Sarwan at 3, Miandad at 4, Misbah at 5 and Styris at 6 would have won them this game.
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Misbah? 12th man?
 
Akshay said:
RT has more superstars but Skizzo's batting has better balance. Decent openers who can set a brisk pace, followed by two solid players who can anchor parts of an innings. Rhodes is a reasonable follow up to that, not sure about Bravo. Both teams lack good finishers anyway. Skizzo bats first and with his bowlers a large total will be hard to chase. Plus the Rhodes factor. Though neither team is great at this stage.
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RT has the better balanced openers and class. Gayle and Jayasuriya are both pure hitters, gayle not even a dependable one at that.
 
Varun said:
Misbah? 12th man?
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Yeah. I still can't figure out why he was snubbed in favour of franklin. I know many here despise him, but his team would have had much more balance to it than it has now.
 
Varun said:
RT has the better balanced openers and class. Gayle and Jayasuriya are both pure hitters, gayle not even a dependable one at that.
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RT might have the better 1-2, but I think Skizzo does better from 3-6.

Edit: But I didn't take running between the wickets into consideration though.
 
Ijazz17 said:
Yeah. I still can't figure out why he was snubbed in favour of franklin. I know many here despise him, but his team would have had much more balance to it than it has now.
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I see. Think he went for it to not have to depend on styris bowling all 10.
Ijazz17 said:
RT might have the better 1-2, but I think Skizzo does better from 3-6.

Edit: But I didn't take running between the wickets into consideration though.
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Yes, he does have an extra batsman. 3 class batters with decent support from 2 others is enough especially when he has styris etc.
 
Inzy will hit the ball and Jonty in the non striker's end will come running. Inzy looks up from striker's end and see Jonty next to him. He asks " Jonty bhai, aap yahaan?"
 
To those of you who are questioning the batting order; we didn't just dump players there with no prior research, everyone is being being played in the spot they have played the majority of ODis in.

The only player who this does not apply to is Dippenaar, Dippenaar has played at 3 but the majority of games came as a opener. The reason we are playing dippenaar at 3 is so that he can stabilise the innings if either of the openers fall, so as not to put pressure on miandad and Sarwan who can play shots instead. If you look at dippenaar stats you'll see that the vast majority of runs came from singles (thus allowing the rotation of the strike when partnering either one of the openers or number 4 and 5).
 
Varun said:
I see. Think he went for it to not have to depend on styris bowling all 10.

Yes, he does have an extra batsman. 3 class batters with decent support from 2 others is enough especially when he has styris etc.
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You're correct as to the reason we played styris and Franklin. Our strike bowlers are Johnson and Vaas with broad and Kumble the first change. Those bowlers will bowl 40 overs with the remaining 10 split between styris, Franklin, miandad and Sarwan.
 
Murali aside, who is going to actually take wickets for Skizzo's side? RT has 3 strike bowlers and the 3rd best spinner of all time. There's close to 1000 wickets between Johnson, Kumble and Vaas alone.

And secondly Miandad was playing in a time where a strike rate in the 70s/80s was seen as aggressive. He undoubtedly had the talent to turn it on when needed and go for big shots. If he was in a latter era, he definitely had the talent to have a SR in the 90s. So judge him in the correct context (ie he was from a previous era).

Also, Sarwan gets you runs and his strike rate for big scores is always in the 90s / 100s. His strike rate for smaller scores is in the 75 mark. But our middle order know how to bat and how to accumulate runs and play the big shots.

Also Dippenaar is being underrated here. This guy was one of the staples of S African cricket for the 90s. He retired early, and remained with one of the best ODI averages (top 5) since then. He can build an innings and let the others play the shots but he will keep the score board ticking over.

For anyone saying our batting line up is weak, I have to heartily disagree.
 
LeChuck said:
Murali aside, who is going to actually take wickets for Skizzo's side? RT has 3 strike bowlers and the 3rd best spinner of all time. There's close to 1000 wickets between Johnson, Kumble and Vaas alone.

And secondly Miandad was playing in a time where a strike rate in the 70s/80s was seen as aggressive. He undoubtedly had the talent to turn it on when needed and go for big shots. If he was in a latter era, he definitely had the talent to have a SR in the 90s. So judge him in the correct context (ie he was from a previous era).

Also, Sarwan gets you runs and his strike rate for big scores is always in the 90s / 100s. His strike rate for smaller scores is in the 75 mark. But our middle order know how to bat and how to accumulate runs and play the big shots.

Also Dippenaar is being underrated here. This guy was one of the staples of S African cricket for the 90s. He retired early, and remained with one of the best ODI averages (top 5) since then. He can build an innings and let the others play the shots but he will keep the score board ticking over.

For anyone saying our batting line up is weak, I have to heartily disagree.
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Skizzo doesn't really need to take that many wickets, you only have five proper batsmen. Yes they are mostly solid (don't really agree on Dippenaar) but apart from Gilchrist no one is really explosive. And Skizzo's bowling and fielding are good at constricting runs. If he puts up a large total, I cannot see you chasing it.
 
Akshay said:
Skizzo doesn't really need to take that many wickets, you only have five proper batsmen. Yes they are mostly solid (don't really agree on Dippenaar) but apart from Gilchrist no one is really explosive. And Skizzo's bowling and fielding are good at constricting runs. If he puts up a large total, I cannot see you chasing it.
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I'm surprised more isn't made of inzys runouts, I mean it's a running joke (excuse the pun) in international cricket to this day. Coupled with jontys penchant for quick running before the ball has been hit... It's asking for trouble.
 
Akshay said:
Skizzo doesn't really need to take that many wickets, you only have five proper batsmen. Yes they are mostly solid (don't really agree on Dippenaar) but apart from Gilchrist no one is really explosive. And Skizzo's bowling and fielding are good at constricting runs. If he puts up a large total, I cannot see you chasing it.
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Styris is explosive, and Franklin and Johnson can definitely accelerate the scoring rate.

And like I said earlier, Sarwan in his big scores always delivers. His SR for scores above 50 is in the 90s and 100s. We have the comfort knowing we will bat our 50 overs as we have batsmen where we need them, pinch hitters where we need them, and accumulators where we need them. A good blend. I think with our bowling attack, Skizzo may not bat the full 50.

Gayle is inconsistent, Jonty is a good fielder but never a WC batsman, D Bravo is much more inconsistent than Sarwan. Bowlers like Vaas and Johnson would easily get through them. Tbh I think Johnson has Bravo a few times (need to check).
 
LeChuck said:
Murali aside - who is going to take wickets for Skizzo? Southee McDermott aren't going to fare too well against our top order.
Gayle is a part time spinner, Bravo's average isn't great. Merali aside I think his team will struggle to get 10 wickets.
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Well but he doesn't need to take ten wickets does he? Just regular enough wickets to keep the run rate in check and prevent any of your main batsmen from becoming set.
 
Akshay said:
Well but he doesn't need to take ten wickets does he? Just regular enough wickets to keep the run rate in check and prevent any of your main batsmen from becoming set.
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True, but let me put it like this. Do they have enough quality in the other 40 overs to stop our batsmen scoring big? I don't think they do.

Vaas
Kumble and Johnson have 1000 wickets between them three alone. So 60% of our overs will be dedicated to bowlers who can 1) take wickets and 2) take them consistently.
 
LeChuck said:
Good enough to get through our openers, Dippenaar and Miandad? I don't think he was good enough for that.
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With, support, yes. He took a 5-for against Pakistan in 87 semi final, although Miandad wasn't one of them. But anyway, he's a good bowler. Gilchrist can be very destructive but it's not like he's a difficult wicket to prise out. Amla and Miandad are the only tough ones.
 
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