To be honest a lot of those defenders are worse than O'Shea. If he is the barometer of "crapness" at United than we're doing quite alright thank you.
Silvestre leaving as well
- Thread starter Kelvin
- Start date
To be honest a lot of those defenders are worse than O'Shea. If he is the barometer of "crapness" at United than we're doing quite alright thank you.
yes i would, because my point would still remain. They got to the CL final. And in fact IF Terry had scored that penalty, the biggest superstar in the team (Ronaldo) would be the one who lost it for them, not the likes of O'Shea
Its good for the time being but if Silvestre leaves you need replacement. Its like saying that we dont need a striker just because we won the double with Rooney and Tevez.
You need adequate cover for every position. Now you can get away with it if injuries dont start cropping out (our first team defense is the best in Europe) in the same time. Unfortunately this will not always be the case.
Can you see us passing through against Barca if Rio got injured and we where forced to replace him with OShea? Messi would have had the time of his life.
i don't disagree that IF Mickey leaves we should bring in another body. What i disagree with is that it needs to be the likes of the ones you have mentioned (Chivu etc)
For example, Fergie may see enough in training to give one of the Brazilian lads a run at fullback if Evra was injured.
To be honest, none of the teams Dev has listed strikes fear into me. A lot of big names, but most are getting on and aren't a billion times better then what we have which seems to be what he is implying.
Our starting back four is the best in the world, and you can quote that.
Our starting back four is the best in the world, and you can quote that.
well as i recall it, we had to replace Vidic and we didnt do to badly against Messi.
Rio is a different matter. He is the best defender in the world. I dont care who you try to replace him with, its not going to be the same.
Ive made that post in response to someone saying that no decent defender would be ready to come as Evra's cover. That is all. If you read my previous posts you would notice that I had also said that we dont need to spend alot to find Mickey's replacement. Some experienced head coming from a small club (similar to Ronnie Johnson) would do. The brazilian kids will need at least a year to settle down.
I agree that when a player leaves you need to replace them, but in this case, it's not the most essential thing we need to do. Silvestre played a handful of matches so it's not like he is leaving a huge hole in our squad. The very squad which won the double with him only playing 5 times in all competitions.
none of us know how long it will take them to settle Dev
Vidic was replaced with Wes who is quite a decent defender. There is a big difference between Wes and OShea.
You call him O'Shit, tell me can you see any loyalty in that?
This year we had 4 long term injuries (Foster, Saha, Mickey and Gaz) and we got away with it. This was due to many factors like team spirit etc, but luck also played a major role in it. I mean if Rooney or lets say Rio got injured for a long time then we would have been in shite. Now Im not saying that you have to have a world class cover to every world class player. Im just saying that you just have to have adequate and reliable cover for each of your players. Now OShea, Simpson and Evans do not inspire that in me yet.
you are making an assumption that Rio would be replaced by O'Shea!?
who is to say that Brown wouldn't replace him? Either Gaz would be fit and back at RB, Hargreaves could go to RB, OShea could go to RB or someone else.
Your point is redundant
And Cole and Sheringham just didn't like each other, probably didnt happen until both at club. So they didn't know in advance. Its not like you really have to talk to each other much.
If he had done it to one of my mates, I want to fecking hurt him too everytime I'd looked at him, so better not to go there. Besides its not like they were Arsenal, Chelsea or United. Newcastle are just another Premiership team.
We also forget sometimes that players are people too, not just walking football careers - they make decisions on jobs the same way we do, best money, location, work atmosphere, people to work with.
O'Shit is = to Oh Shit which is the phrase I use whenever I see O'Shea in our defense expecially as central back. I would say the same thing if I see Ronaldo there. That doesnt mean that I hate Ronaldo.
If injury strikes to both our central backs we will have to rely on two between OShea, Evans and Wes. That is not good enough at least against the toughest sides.
Rooney had plenty of injuries this season. Clearly we weren't in shit seeing as we won the double. Get some perspective will you.
Well thankfully SAF knows that they can do a job and doesn't care enough to go out and buy world class cover to inspire fans like you.
Did Pique inspire you? If so, then you shouldn't have any problems with Evans.
Oshea isn't as bad as you think. He is very reliable, most people can see this, SAF saw it which is why he offered him a new contract.
Simpson is the only questionable one, but you have Neville, Brown and Hargreaves all capable of playing at right full back so we may not even see Simpson play for us next season.
It's still insulting someone who has given more to this club than half of the players you go around praising I'm sure. No loyalty.
IF, IF, IF
Your point is becoming more and more extreme to try and win the argument.
As is already pointed out, Gaz and Mickey were both out most of last season. We won the double.
He never had long term injuries. Anyway do you think that we dont need a new striker then?
Where have I said that we need a world class defender?
If there arent ifs then we can scrap all our reserves and concentrate in having just the best 11. We also wouldnt have to worry to replace Saha with a new player. After all we had lived without him havent we?
What happens if injury strikes to the players who are supposed to cover both Rio and Vidic?
You have to draw the line somewhere and have faith with what you got. Otherwise you can end up with 3-4 players to each position.
I get the impression that some people would love that.
No. I myself had to admit that Ive made the mistake of overrating him a bit.
He was given a new contract because he is versatile. I applaud SAF for doing so but that doesnt mean that he could do the job as central back expecially against the stronger sides
The problem is not the rear flanks. If injuries strike for both Rio and Vidic we would have to choose 2 between Wes, OShea and Evans. Imagine us in a CL semifinal tie with that defense.
Who said that you have to have 3 - 4 players for each position? You just have to have adequate cover in all positions. Simpson and OShea dont offer that while its premature to rely on both Gaz (no one knows for sure if he had returned to his former self) and Evans.
Youre right that we have lived without Mickey. Stating that we had also lived without Saha and Foster. Should we get rid of Saha/Foster and bring no one to replace them as well?
What you will find though is that, these players you speak about as being better then Oshea, are in fact the 'world class' defenders you claim you accept as not wanting to come to the club to sit on the bench.
Reality is, defenders who are better then Oshea, don't play second fiddle. Oshea is as good as it gets for a player covering various positions.
You can as you pointed out earlier go after 'older' players, but who wants a 35 year old sitting on the bench whilst someone younger missing out. Now I know we have brought in older players in the past on loan or for a couple of seasons as cover etc. but it's just not necessary in this case because Oshea is just as good or even better then an 'experienced' defender who is slow as shit.
Inter, Chelsea and Real's case show that there are good defenders that are ready to sit on the bench and wait for their chance. You dont need to rely on average homegrown talent for that. Very few of those defenders (if any) has 35 yrs of age btw
Id repeat my former question. We had lived without Mickey in the same way that we had lived without Saha. We also won the treble with a team made up of 21 players. Should we forget about bringing in a replacement for Saha + reduce the number of players to 21 because of that?
Well yes we should get rid of Saha, sadly he is pretty much useless, I've always rated him but he is no good to us for 5 games a season (so to speak). But even if we don't get rid of him we still need a striker. The striker position is the number one priority. More so then brining in a 9th defender into the squad.
It's different in the goalkeeping position. You know this, just clutching at straws now.
I believe you have a choice in this, you either bring in 'experienced' players who only have a season or two left in them to cover various positions, or you rely on homegrown/young potential players. Personally, I would go for the latter.
I've already answered your question about Saha. Without Silvestre we still have 8 defenders. Without Saha we only have 2. So it's not a very good question because it doesn't apply nor strengthen your argument.
The other difference between striker and defender is that you ned options up front to change things about even without injuries...
If Mickey leaves we will be 7 defenders for 4 roles. If Saha leaves we will be having 4 strikers (Rooney, Tevez, Manucho, Campbell) for two roles. In both cases we can move around players to cover holes. Hargreaves can play in right back in the same way Giggs/Scholes/Anderson can play upfront. We are even more comfortable in the goalkeepers department. I mean if Foster leaves we would still have a world class keeper (VDS) backed by Polish international Kuschak. Why different weights and measures?
And you need EXPERIENCE at the back to keep the defense tight. If you have a 17 yr old striker who is good then you can get away with it quite easily (Rooney, Owen etc). But its very rare for a young central back to be capable to keep the defense tight without ample experience. The last defender I can think of who was capable of doing that was Maldini.
O'Shea is a fine defender, the very fact that Fergie has used him as a defender in his "best ever squad" shows that. What are you on about Fergie thinks twice before playing him in defence? He's played him there far more than anywhere else this season
And why would winning things without players mean those players are crap? I think you're getting confused as I never said Silvestre was a terrible player or anything. I think he's alright, we just don't need him. I don't think we need Neville either tbh but we're not going to get rid of him after all he's done for the club so it's a moot point. Evans we don't need right now but he's got the potential to develop into a player we do, Silvestre obviously doesn't have such potential.
That last paragraph is a pretty ridiculous. Firstly our defence doesn't have a tendency to break down, that's nonsense. Silvestre would primarily be in our squad as a left back and how often has Evra had serious injuries since he's been at the club? It makes even less sense when you consider that Silvestre himself is one of the few players who DOES have a tendency to break down. He's missed most of the last two seasons with varying injuries so how can you construct a hypothetical where we're going to be relying on him to be one of our few fit defenders to help the team? That's laughable. You might as well say "We need to keep Saha because Rooney and Tevez are bound to pick up injuries and Saha will be sure to be fit when they do."
And stop going on about caps for France and the Coventy game, it means very little. Evra is the best left back in the world and he only has half the caps for France that Boumsong does. The Coventy game was one match and everyone had a bad game in it, the season before we lost to Southend with Rooney and Ronaldo being shut down by League One defenders. Does this tell you that Rooney and Ronaldo had no chance of competing in the Premiership that year or that one game should not be the basis of assessing the abilities of a player?
Manucho won't be here at the start of next season, Campbell isn't ready and probably won't be here either. We will have 8 defenders for 4 roles. More than decent back up in every position for defenders compared to very little back up in the striking positions, and Manucho and Campbell are the most unproven players in our first team squad really. Your argument is getting thinner by the minute.
Hargreaves and Fletcher can play at right back actually. Scholes can't play upfront any more, Anderson could never play up front and Giggs will only play the odd game next season.
Hagreaves did a good job filling in but I think he's better in midfield and I wasn't overly impressed with Brown last season. Brilliant that he did so well in not his favored position of course but I wouldn't want him as our future right back. Imo right back and left wing were the two biggest problem positions last season, Nani should make left wing his own next year but I'd like us to get the right back position sorted this summer.
Roma are understood to have made a move for Manchester United defender Mikael Silvestre.
The 30-year-old has been at Old Trafford for nine-years following his move from Internazionale but he is now down the pecking order under Sir Alex Ferguson.
Bordeaux are keen for Silvestre to return to France in an initial loan, but their director Marius Tresor revealed that Roma have already made a move to take him back to Serie A.
"I am afraid the situation with Silvestre has been complicated," Tresor told RTL.
"I met him recently and he told me he had just been contacted by Roma.
"Both clubs are interested in the player, but there is the risk he'll find a permanent transfer to Roma more attractive than a loan to Bordeaux."
Silvestre lasted just one season last time as he failed to make an impact with
Inter, but he has performed admirably during his time with United and could now be tempted by a move to Rome.
Silvestre missed most of last season with a knee ligament injury and only returned to action in April.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_3693799,00.html
The 30-year-old has been at Old Trafford for nine-years following his move from Internazionale but he is now down the pecking order under Sir Alex Ferguson.
Bordeaux are keen for Silvestre to return to France in an initial loan, but their director Marius Tresor revealed that Roma have already made a move to take him back to Serie A.
"I am afraid the situation with Silvestre has been complicated," Tresor told RTL.
"I met him recently and he told me he had just been contacted by Roma.
"Both clubs are interested in the player, but there is the risk he'll find a permanent transfer to Roma more attractive than a loan to Bordeaux."
Silvestre lasted just one season last time as he failed to make an impact with
Inter, but he has performed admirably during his time with United and could now be tempted by a move to Rome.
Silvestre missed most of last season with a knee ligament injury and only returned to action in April.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_3693799,00.html
Do we? We will be having OShea, Gaz (if he still up to the job), Rio, Vidic, Evra, Wes and Evans. The rest are either youngsters with no experience or players who are played out of position. The only cover we have for Rio and Vidic are OShea (quite crap as central back), Wes (good defender but may be needed as right back) and Evans (untested at this level).
BTW Anderson had played many games with us behind the main striker and Id rather see Scholes upfront then Fletcher as right back. What's next should we try Queroz as central back and see how he performs?
And who told you that Manucho wont be with us next season? According to him he will be in our team next season. Do you know something that he doesnt know?