Serie A vs La Liga Head-to-Head Draft

Gio said:
La Liga probably merits its own non-restrictive draft at some point: this isn't really the place given the concept.
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Aye, but the concept could be scrapped if people aren't really into it (and it seems they aren't).

The easiest way to keep this rolling, with the current set of managers, would probably be to simply do a la Liga draft: Ban the usual suspects - and rock on. You said it yourself the other day: There are plenty of unsung heroes waiting for some limelight, players who were at their peak in the pre-Pep years. Could make for a very interesting draft, actually.
 
Ok so to get over the incessant whinging for the next 10 rounds, something needs to happen to change the present draft. Give me a little while and will give it some more thought and get back to you...
 
I think we need to find out what the rest of the managers want to do. They're the ones who have invested time researching the pool. That should leave us three options:
  1. Carry on as normal
  2. Continue with a variation (a load of these suggested on the previous page)
  3. Scrap the concept and work up something new (e.g. Chester's suggestion)
Speaking from the top of my Roberto-Baggio-jewelled tower, I'm quite happy with 2. But equally though there is no point in going through the motions as both the La Liga and Serie A pools deserve a proper crack at it from enthusiastic managers. So if the consensus is option 3, then let's take some time to work something up that will deliver.

Of course that's not a criticism of Marty's concept here - it's innovative and almost nails it. But if we are starting afresh we should maybe get the nuts and bolts sorted before managers start pouring through squads to build up their shortlists.

Chesterlestreet said:
Aye, but the concept could be scrapped if people aren't really into it (and it seems they aren't).

The easiest way to keep this rolling, with the current set of managers, would probably be to simply do a la Liga draft: Ban the usual suspects - and rock on. You said it yourself the other day: There are plenty of unsung heroes waiting for some limelight, players who were at their peak in the pre-Pep years. Could make for a very interesting draft, actually.
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Of course I'd be up for that. Then again some of that will be more obscure work which clearly, by some of the comments so far, isn't everyone's cup of tea.
 
I'd like a variation that extends the La Liga pool without messing with the Serie A pool or bringing back all the blocked players who played in both leagues. Either extend the age restriction for La Liga or add another league to it, for example make it Serie A vs La Liga + Premier league, but with the restriction that all players who played in Serie A and PL are only eligible for Serie A. That would keep the Serie A pool the same and still help the La Liga teams a lot, especially when it comes to highly rated defenders, which is probably the main weakness in the La Liga pool.

Then restart the drafting for La Liga.
 
Balu said:
I'd like a variation that extends the La Liga pool without messing with the Serie A pool or bringing back all the blocked players who played in both leagues. Either extend the age restriction for La Liga or add another league to it, for example make it Serie A vs La Liga + Premier league, but with the restriction that all players who played in Serie A and PL are only eligible for Serie A. That would keep the Serie A pool the same and still help the La Liga teams a lot, especially when it comes to highly rated defenders, which is probably the main weakness in the La Liga pool.

Then restart the drafting for La Liga.
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The best option would probably be to extend the age restriction for La Liga to say 50's. I don't think adding another league would make sense in this concept.

The other option would've been to add another league and divide the pool by 3 or 4(if we add bundesliga as well - if there are 3 you will have 6 teams from Seria A and 5 each in Prem/La Liga which will balance it out) and restart fresh.
 
Enigma_87 said:
The other option would've been to add another league and divide the pool by 3 or 4(if we add bundesliga as well - if there are 3 you will have 6 teams from Seria A and 5 each in Prem/La Liga which will balance it out) and restart fresh.
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I don't think that makes sense with the restriction that players who have played in multiple leagues aren't eligible. And without that restriction the draft loses its identitiy completely.

Serie A will always prevail anyway, if you block the elite players, who dominated most of the recent drafts we had. There's no league that compares in terms of depth. La Liga compares in terms of elite names because of Barca and Real, but that's it.

/edit: it's basically a bit like the manager draft, when it was obvious from the start that we'll see a Capello vs Trapattoni final.
 
Extending Liga pool to 50s born player seem like the best idea IMO. Won't level the playing field completely but it is something
 
crappycraperson said:
Extending Liga pool to 50s born player seem like the best idea IMO. Won't level the playing field completely but it is something
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That would make La Liga's CM pool ridiculously strong, easily a tier above the Serie A pool, so yeah sounds like a good idea and the least complicated thing to do without messing with the idea behind the draft.
 
Balu said:
I don't think that makes sense with the restriction that players who have played in multiple leagues aren't eligible. And without that restriction the draft loses its identitiy completely.

Serie A will always prevail anyway, if you block the elite players, who dominated most of the recent drafts we had. There's no league that compares in terms of depth. La Liga compares in terms of elite names because of Barca and Real, but that's it.

/edit: it's basically a bit like the manager draft, when it was obvious from the start that we'll see a Capello vs Trapattoni final.
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The other option is to have those who played mainly in say Seria A - eligible for Seria A only. And for those who played in La liga - La liga only. A restriction for example - the players that can be picked will have to have played at least 5 seasons in the league you pick them for(players with 5 or more in both leagues will be blocked).
 
Enigma_87 said:
The other option is to have those who played mainly in say Seria A - eligible for Seria A only. And for those who played in La liga - La liga only. A restriction for example - the players that can be picked will have to have played at least 5 seasons in the league you pick them for(players with 5 or more in both leagues will be blocked).
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feck that, Rijkaard has won enough drafts.
 
Balu said:
;)

As long as no one takes van Basten away from us, I'm happy with all changes :D.
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Or just do it as it is but with the additional restriction of players who won the Ballon D'Or will be blocked. :D Seeing the picks it will make no difference for the La Liga draft as from the first picks no one has won it anyway :D
 
I think you have to consider two things here:

1. Balance. You can't do the head-to-head if the A pool is significantly stronger than the B pool.

2. Overall intention: If you disregard any impulse to actually limit the number of high profile/vote winning/usual suspect style players - well, it's easy. But is that what people want? Again?

To me, Marty's original idea was very good from the "2" perspective - the problem clearly lies with "1", i.e. the potential of it all ending up as Balu suggests above, i.e. the Trap/Cap situation.
 
Balu said:
/edit: it's basically a bit like the manager draft, when it was obvious from the start that we'll see a Capello vs Trapattoni final.
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True. How the manager draft mitigated that to a point was to open the door for more than one Capello or Trapattoni to enable the competition for the same players. Obviously that worked until one of the Caps or Traps got knocked out. It also helped that players were available across different managers so that, while Cap and Trap had these massive pools, they were at risk from other managers too.

I suppose the equivalent here would be for the 16 managers to decide which league they wanted to join (like Crappy's 10/6 idea) and enable cross-competition for players (no blocking of both league players).
 
Gio said:
I suppose the equivalent here would be for the 16 managers to decide which league they wanted to join (like Crappy's 10/6 idea) and enable cross-competition for players (no blocking of both league players).
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Yeah, that's exactly what Enigma proposed earlier with the 3 leagues and 6 Seria A managers, 5 from La Liga and 5 from the Premier League or something like that.

It does restrict the teams initially a bit but eventually we're back to the superteams with the same players who dominated the latter stages of most drafts in recent years. That simply wouldn't be the case in this draft, if we continued with so many quality players blocked.
 
Would it make La Liga much better if players who played in both Serie A and La Liga could play? There's a few players that immediately come to mind and if you were Serie A and picked them you'd have to have that version of the player, not La Liga. I'm thinking this should help La Liga much more than Serie A.

As an aside what league head to head drafts would work? How about the Bundesliga vs the EPL for players born post 1960
 
Ok so with all the ideas being thrown around...How about we scrap the draft as it is and we go for the PL/Serie A/La Liga draft.

Starting from scratch the rules would be:
- Each squad must consist of 4 players from each (if they played in more than 1 league the manager must specify which league they will represent when the selection is made and ability is based on this league, not career peak.
- No restrictions on whether a player played in more than one league
- Normal 16 team draft
- Before the draft commences 32 players will be blocked from any of the leagues (each manager chooses two players).
- Same age and nationality restrictions apply.

Any thoughts? All being in the same 16 team draft rather than a 'split-pot' will mean we're all in the same boat and nobody can moan (well a couple of you will still obviously!)
 
...Either that or we go for a straight forward La Liga draft (not what I had in mind but would mean we have a lot of hidden gems to research an write up about - given the 'dearth' of talent in the league!!?!
 
im happy with how it is now, lets show this feckers from italy how to lose in style
 
Bundesliga instead of EPL might be more interesting imo, given how we had an exclusive premier league draft fairly recently.

(Also having the German cheat code Balu helps)
 
I think the spirit of a two or three league draft is to have teams representative of that league's style and stars competing against one another. A mish-mash of squads would just become a post-1960 draft with a few restrictions thrown in and a few randoms unavailable who didn't play in one of the big three leagues. The pool wouldn't be much different from an all-time one, while we've done the PL to death recently.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
im happy with how it is now, lets show this feckers from italy how to lose in style
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:lol: Given my recent track record of losing in the first round anyway I'm happy enough to continue with this format too. If we change too much at this stage I see this quickly becoming an issue again:

Chesterlestreet said:
2. Overall intention: If you disregard any impulse to actually limit the number of high profile/vote winning/usual suspect style players - well, it's easy. But is that what people want? Again?
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As it stands now, at least the few La Liga managers that do make it through the first round should have plenty of reinforcement options. Along with getting to research/rediscover some relatively obscure gems, that's enough incentive for me to keep ploughing on with this format.
 
I agree with Gio. No point of having mish mash of players from both leagues as essentially it will be another all time draft.

I think even better scenario would be - restart the current draft. Make it from the 50's above(bigger pool of players) for both leagues, ban all Ballon D'or winners - in this case you have no Gullit, MvB, etc with additional 3 player block. Thus the Seria A will have less stars in this way due to having multiple Ballon D'or winners and from 50's above you have bigger set of players.

Otherwise another option is just make it a decade draft you have Seria A and La Liga, but you can't choose more than 3 players per decade(or 2 for that matter whatever is best).

In this case you can only pick 2 or 3 players from Seria A heyday in the 80's or 90's...

You pick from 50's onwards and IMO you have a level field.
 
So my proposal is like this:

Seria A vs La Liga

1. Restrictions stay the same - no players that have played in both leagues
2. No Ballon D'or winners
3. Minimum of 5 nationalities for starting lineup
4. Decades picks - 2 from each decade(one obviously 3 to make it 11 or another to make it 12) - players born from the 40's, onward till 80's(or even better the 1 that is left would be the keeper for who no one cares anyway and the other will be a sub - free picks in terms of decade restriction). So you'll have - 2 each born from 40's onwards on the pitch and free pick regardless of age for the keeper.
5. 3 additional blocks for each league.
6. League peak(both club and country by that time) not career.

That should even things up.

If there will be 3 leagues - it's the same with seria a having 6 managers and the other two 5.

But having a rough idea of the pools I'd rather keep them 2 leagues as otherwise we'll get limited pool of players, especially if there is nationality restriction.
 
from my point of view i really dont see the problem. Yes, Serie A pool is better and bigger and most of their teams will win in the first round(after reinforcements the gap between the teams will be much smaller) but La Liga camp will enjoy much more in the drafting process, picking new players, researching for hidden gems etc. while the Serie A camp will pick the usual players that are already draft veterans.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
from my point of view i really dont see the problem. Yes, Serie A pool is better and bigger and most of their teams will win in the first round(after reinforcements the gap between the teams will be much smaller) but La Liga camp will enjoy much more in the drafting process, picking new players, researching for hidden gems etc. while the Serie A camp will pick the usual players that are already draft veterans.
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I agree.
 
The other option is carry on and let La Liga sides play each other and Seria A play each other as well up until the finals. After couple of reinforcement rounds the gap will be smaller as others mentioned. I'm ok either way.

I guess it's up to La Liga managers to decide whether we should continue in the current form(as they are in disadvantage) and if they are ok with it we should carry on and afterwards we can have a new draft that goes with some of the other suggestions above.

It's up to @Marty1968 so let me know how it goes as it is our turn with the pick.
 
How about this as a suggestion @Marty1968 :

The Battle of the Leagues Draft:

16 teams will be randomly assigned to 1 of 4 leagues - Seria A, Bundesliga, La Liga, Premier League, and from that point on represents solely this league.
Drafting procedure will go in a normal snake draft 1-16, with every player born post January 1st 1960 will be eligible for this draft, except 16 players who will be blocked - 1 by each manager from an opponent league(Seria a will eliminate from Bundesliga, Bundesliga from La Liga, La Liga from Premier League and the PL from Seria A).
Besides the 16 blocked players, all post 1960 born players will be eligible. A player who played in multiple leagues will be judged solely on his years in that league.
Each team will need players from at least 4 nationalities in their XI at all time.

Order of Drafting:
The draft will be normal 1-16, than we will still have managers from different leagues contesting for the same player, add the spice of tactical picks etc.
After assigning 16 players to 4 leagues, we will have a draw inside the league to determine the order of voting inside the league, and another draw to decide the order by leagues.
For example(with 3 teams in 3 leagues to keep it simpler): Teams 1,3,5 are in PL, 2,4,6 in Seria A & 7,8,9 in Bundesliga. Inside PL the draw order came 5-1-3, in Seria A it came 2-6-4, in BuLi it came 9-7-8. The draw of the order by leagues is Seria A, than BuLi, than PL. So the drafting order will be: 2-9-5-6-7-1-4-8-3(1st ones of each draw inside the league, than second ones, than 3rd ones etc.)

Draw:
In the first round, 2 teams from the same league can't meet, from QF onwards they can.
 
A couple of measures to potentially even things up:
  • Keep the leagues separate until the final
  • Allow La Liga 2 reinforcements per round and Serie A 1 per round until the semi-final. So once all initial squads are set, La Liga teams will be able to strengthen by 5 players versus 3 for Serie A. That should get over the notion of a one-sided final.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
from my point of view i really dont see the problem. Yes, Serie A pool is better and bigger and most of their teams will win in the first round(after reinforcements the gap between the teams will be much smaller) but La Liga camp will enjoy much more in the drafting process, picking new players, researching for hidden gems etc. while the Serie A camp will pick the usual players that are already draft veterans.
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Problem is that first round will be drab with 6-8 serie a teams winning. Semis will also most likely include all 4 serie a teams
 
I think someone like @Theon who is not playing should take a call matching pools across 2/3 leagues with varying restrictions.
 
crappycraperson said:
Problem is that first round will be drab with 6-8 serie a teams winning. Semis will also most likely include all 4 serie a teams
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we get more enjoyable draft process, you guys get the joy of winning afters :D
 
Gio said:
A couple of measures to potentially even things up:
  • Keep the leagues separate until the final
  • Allow La Liga 2 reinforcements per round and Serie A 1 per round until the semi-final. So once all initial squads are set, La Liga teams will be able to strengthen by 5 players versus 3 for Serie A. That should get over the notion of a one-sided final.
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That would be kinda boring, the drafting is the best part.
 
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