Sergio Ramos

I will only say one thing.

I know it's impossible, but I'd really like to read your opinions if Godin was at Real Madrid playing in a team with 2 super offensive full backs, and Ramos at Atletico in an extremely defensive minded, neo-cattenaccio, Simeonesque 4-4-2 unit.
 
B&Wandmore said:
he was malicious, of course he might not have planned to break his shoulder but when falling it is not a natural movement to lock the other player arm while going down, in those circumstances it was almost certain to harm the other player
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It happens all the time though.

People always grab other players when they're going down.
 
Moriarty said:
What? You think Ramos and Real wouldn't have watched Salah before the final?
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Why would I think that? Having watched someone and being able to deal with them are two completely different things. feck knows how the battle between those two would have gone. All we know is that Liverpool lost, thankfully.
 
I don't particularly like Ramos. But it's fair to say that he has compensated for his defensive mistakes with astonishing amount of goals, especially in big games. While Rio and Vida were much better defenders, Ramos is a better player than them in the sense that his overall impact on games/competitions is bigger.
 
I miss his bouts with Costa. Two proper cnuts trying to outdo each other.
 
Ramos is perfect for madrid. He can make the right fouls at the right time to make the opponent shaky, just like van Bommel did.
He's really talented in making the correct fouls and it's great having him in your team and really annoying having him playing against you.
Defensively he's at the top level, not Chiellini level but certainly top level. His passing is really good, his goal scoring is good, and his read on the game is good.
All together he's a world class defender and a game changer. Which manager wouldn't want this cnut in his team?
 
He's a snide little player. No way was that challenge on Salah at the weekend intentional though, he could have easily come out of that injured himself and missed what may be his last WC in the process, and I don't see him making that risk.

I felt people blamed him on his reputation there rather than the actual incident.
 
FujiVice said:
I'd enter him into the UFC if he was that good as being able to take a man's arm and dislocate his shoulder. Some of the things you see are just ridiculous. Did he try and take Salah down during a tussle? Yes. Did he try and dislocate his shoulder? If he did, he's got a new career making martial arts films. GSP couldnt have done that shit.
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Some are definitely making too much of the degree of Ramos' intent re. the Salah incident. A better example of Ramos' modus from the same game, and a better way to figure out which side of the fence you come down on regarding his win-at-all-costs way of playing, is the crafty elbow-nudge to the face of Karius (see here). It shows the degree to which Ramos has honed the more underhand, attritional side of his 'art,' because, on its own dastardly merits, the move is so well executed. It's carried out during a fast passage of RM forward play (when things are carried out at speed, the intent of any action is a less objective call to make), and the nudge itself is just a short but powerful poke to the lower face/neck (which could've concussed Karius or left him with facial injuries, and would've shaken him up regardless). No conspicuous draw-back of the arm beforehand, and landed using peripheral vision - Ramos looks as though he's following play, which he is (he's multi-tasking, innit!); his head's turned away from Karius when he does it. Then Ramos tumbles in a way that suggests he might've been clipped, and rolls over into touch, to put distance between himself and the 'scene of the crime.' It's so well done that it's impossible to definitively say whether he intended to elbow Karius or not. I think he does, but even after repeatedly viewing replays and seeing it in slow motion, there's room for doubt; each person has to make his or her own call. I guess it's this sort of thing that makes some call Ramos a master of football's "black arts," because he's able so often to do this relatively subtler stuff inconspicuously (at first view), and in cold blood.
 
This entire Salah thing is ridiculous now. Typical fecking scouse bstards,playing the victim card as usual.
Do people watch football nowadays, a coming together like this happens every match. It's the landing that was unfortunate for Salah.
If he lands differently there is no discussion. The t-shirts and conspiracy theories will be out the way it's going.
Maybe the real issue is how average Liverpool look without Salah. Firmino was a ghost in that game, the minute he went of.
Ramos is never going to be a fan favourite but he's one the best leaders ever, real warrior. He's a crafty player but I refuse to believe he tried to take him out on this occasion.
 
RuudRuud said:
Ramos is perfect for madrid. He can make the right fouls at the right time to make the opponent shaky, just like van Bommel did.
He's really talented in making the correct fouls and it's great having him in your team and really annoying having him playing against you.
Defensively he's at the top level, not Chiellini level but certainly top level. His passing is really good, his goal scoring is good, and his read on the game is good.
All together he's a world class defender and a game changer. Which manager wouldn't want this cnut in his team?
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He has quite a rascally charm. The sort of player I'd kill to have as our captain for sure.
 
Fantastic captain and player for the team. Doesn’t mind being the ‘villain’ (cnut) for the team. Was massive yesterday. Instrumental in their 4 wins in 5 CL.

He seems to have gotten better over the years too. We need a proper leader like him in our team.

And ffs, obviously he didn’t mean to injure Salah. It was just incredibly bad luck on Salah’s part.
 
RuudRuud said:
Ramos is perfect for madrid. He can make the right fouls at the right time to make the opponent shaky, just like van Bommel did.
He's really talented in making the correct fouls and it's great having him in your team and really annoying having him playing against you.
Defensively he's at the top level, not Chiellini level but certainly top level. His passing is really good, his goal scoring is good, and his read on the game is good.
All together he's a world class defender and a game changer. Which manager wouldn't want this cnut in his team?
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Chiellini spent his career playing for Juventus who play slow, rigid, boring, controlled football with 8 players behind the ball at all time.

Now try to imagine Chiellini at Real Madrid in place of Ramos, with two full backs camping inside opposition half for most of the game and that's just the start.

I'm not saying Ramos is better at defending, but comparing a CB who plays for Real Madrid to a CB who play for Juventus is like comparing apples and oranges. Chiellini was never tested the way Ramos get's tested quite often.
 
11101 said:
No he won't. He will be remembered as the best of a generation, but all the trophies in the world won't put him ahead of the likes of Maldini, Baresi, Beckenbauer & co.
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Ramos deserves to be in that bracket for me. He's a fecking immense defender. A lot of people just like to get caught up in the nostalgia of the 80s and 90s defenders.
 
Kapardin said:
He has quite a rascally charm. The sort of player I'd kill to have as our captain for sure.
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Yeah for sure.

gaucho_10 said:
Chiellini spent his career playing for Juventus who play slow, rigid, boring, controlled football with 8 players behind the ball at all time.

Now try to imagine Chiellini at Real Madrid in place of Ramos, with two full backs camping inside opposition half for most of the game and that's just the start.

I'm not saying Ramos is better at defending, but comparing a CB who plays for Real Madrid to a CB who play for Juventus is like comparing apples and oranges. Chiellini was never tested the way Ramos get's tested quite often.
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Exactly what I said. Playing as Ramos for Real Madrid you need to be a complete defender (off the ball and on the ball), that's why I mentioned all his great abilities as a defender :smirk:

Chiellini stands out at the pure defensive aspect of defending. He's the best in the world at keeping his man at bay and has proven himself in the Champions League as well as for the Italian national team for years now.

You can compare the 2 on just that simple aspect. There are loads of games that madrid plays defensively. Just looking at this year: PSG, Bayern, Juve etc. You could see Madrid defending as a squad (not even mentioning Madrid under Mourinho) and you can see that Ramos is really good at that defensive game as well. He's 'top level'. But Chiellini is the best there is at simple defending mano vs mano.
 
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Cezzine said:
Maldini: 5 UCLs, 0 WCs, 0 EUROS.
Baresi: 3 UCLs, 1 WCs, 0 EUROS.
Beckenbauer: 3 UCLs, 1 WCs, 1 EUROS.
Cannavaro: 1 UCLs, 1 WCs, 0 EUROS.
Cafú: 1 UCLs, 2 WCs, 2 CA.
Roberto Carlos: 3 UCLs, 1 WCs, 2 CA.
Puyol: 3 UCLs, 1WCs, 1 EUROS.
Koeman: 2UCLs, 0 WCs, 1 EUROS.
Thuram: 1UCLs, 1 WCs, 1 EUROS.

Sergio Ramos: 4UCLs, 1WCs, 2 EUROS.

This guy at 32 and with some years more playing in top level, is already the most winner defense in history.

On top of that, he has been crucial in all the trophies he has won, most of them as captain and leader of his team.

You can like him or not, but the guy is a serial winner and in some years that he retires, he will be remembered as the best defender in the history of the game.
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No, they won the UEFA cup but never the Champions league.
 
B&Wandmore said:
He has learnt from the best Pepe a world class son of a btch. To be honest I am not too outraged by a rough defender, I have loved Gentile, or Montero or Chiellini that were not gentle flowers.
What really pisses me off about Ramos is how he dives and simulates all the time without a single referee giving him a yellow card, he is disgusting from this point of view same as Ronaldo. Both great, great players mind you, but absolutely awful sportmanship. Last year in Cardiff in a match that Madrid had already won at 3-1 he got Cuadrado red carded on a ridiculous simulation. TBH Chiellini too has sometimes simulated or exaggerated on fouls but not as frequently and so blatantly.

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He stood on Ramos' foot
 
gaucho_10 said:
Chiellini spent his career playing for Juventus who play slow, rigid, boring, controlled football with 8 players behind the ball at all time.

Now try to imagine Chiellini at Real Madrid in place of Ramos, with two full backs camping inside opposition half for most of the game and that's just the start.

I'm not saying Ramos is better at defending, but comparing a CB who plays for Real Madrid to a CB who play for Juventus is like comparing apples and oranges. Chiellini was never tested the way Ramos get's tested quite often.
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This just happens all the time doesn't it. Defenders playing for teams that are set up to defend deep with a deep line and full backs who help out, somehow get the credit for being better pure defenders whatever that means. The toughest defensive job in Europe probably is to be a central defender for this Real side. They are not particularly brilliant at possession meaning they actually do get attacked quite often unlike past Barcelona for example. They don't press with intensity meaning again their defenders do find themselves in one on ones more often and their full backs are probably the most carefree in Europe. What Ramos is doing in that team is at least as good as any defensive performance I can think of.
 
Theonas said:
This just happens all the time doesn't it. Defenders playing for teams that are set up to defend deep with a deep line and full backs who help out, somehow get the credit for being better pure defenders whatever that means. The toughest defensive job in Europe probably is to be a central defender for this Real side. They are not particularly brilliant at possession meaning they actually do get attacked quite often unlike past Barcelona for example. They don't press with intensity meaning again their defenders do find themselves in one on ones more often and their full backs are probably the most carefree in Europe. What Ramos is doing in that team is at least as good as any defensive performance I can think of.
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This is spot on.

I like your input in general.
 
This Ramos petition thing is a load of nonsense. Arsenal fans didn’t resort to this when Ramsey and Eduardo almost had their careers ended.

Players get injured in tangles like that all the time.

That being said, Ramos is a bit of a dick.
 
Theonas said:
This just happens all the time doesn't it. Defenders playing for teams that are set up to defend deep with a deep line and full backs who help out, somehow get the credit for being better pure defenders whatever that means. The toughest defensive job in Europe probably is to be a central defender for this Real side. They are not particularly brilliant at possession meaning they actually do get attacked quite often unlike past Barcelona for example. They don't press with intensity meaning again their defenders do find themselves in one on ones more often and their full backs are probably the most carefree in Europe. What Ramos is doing in that team is at least as good as any defensive performance I can think of.
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United rarely sat back as well. But Rio and Vidic were brutally good defensively. It's not just Juventus who have had outstanding defensive players.
 
Theonas said:
This just happens all the time doesn't it. Defenders playing for teams that are set up to defend deep with a deep line and full backs who help out, somehow get the credit for being better pure defenders whatever that means. The toughest defensive job in Europe probably is to be a central defender for this Real side. They are not particularly brilliant at possession meaning they actually do get attacked quite often unlike past Barcelona for example. They don't press with intensity meaning again their defenders do find themselves in one on ones more often and their full backs are probably the most carefree in Europe. What Ramos is doing in that team is at least as good as any defensive performance I can think of.
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Completely wrong. You haven't watched a lot of Barcelona in recent times. They get attacked a lot.

But in general it's easier being a CB for Madrid and Barcelona. You can get away with a lot of mistakes because your team is so great in attack. And both Ramos and Pique do make a fair amount of mistakes. They are excellent players but their defensive abilities are not outstanding.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
This entire Salah thing is ridiculous now. Typical fecking scouse bstards,playing the victim card as usual.
Do people watch football nowadays, a coming together like this happens every match. It's the landing that was unfortunate for Salah.
If he lands differently there is no discussion. The t-shirts and conspiracy theories will be out the way it's going.
Maybe the real issue is how average Liverpool look without Salah. Firmino was a ghost in that game, the minute he went of.
Ramos is never going to be a fan favourite but he's one the best leaders ever, real warrior. He's a crafty player but I refuse to believe he tried to take him out on this occasion.
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Go on YouTube and type in Ramos vs Alves, then come back to this thread. I wouldn't say it's intentional but when a player has a reputation for injuring opponents intentional you can't put it past him. Look at hoe many times he tried to injury Messi purposely.
 
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VP89 said:
Ramos deserves to be in that bracket for me. He's a fecking immense defender. A lot of people just like to get caught up in the nostalgia of the 80s and 90s defenders.
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You should joining in the Caf Drafts. Those are great threads to learn past players.
 
Giethewill said:
Go on YouTube and type in Ramos vs Alves, then come back to this thread. I wouldn't say it's intentional but when a player has a reputation for injuring opponents intentional you can't put it past him. Look at hoe many times he tried to injury Messi purposely.
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All different incidents, his reputation for a dirty challenge is well documented. In this case it isn't, complete over reaction by Liverpool blaming someone as usual.
 
Theonas said:
This just happens all the time doesn't it. Defenders playing for teams that are set up to defend deep with a deep line and full backs who help out, somehow get the credit for being better pure defenders whatever that means. The toughest defensive job in Europe probably is to be a central defender for this Real side. They are not particularly brilliant at possession meaning they actually do get attacked quite often unlike past Barcelona for example. They don't press with intensity meaning again their defenders do find themselves in one on ones more often and their full backs are probably the most carefree in Europe. What Ramos is doing in that team is at least as good as any defensive performance I can think of.
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Yep, spot on. How often have we heard Godin, Miranda, Bonucci, Chiellini etc called the best 'actual' defenders in the world whilst Ramos, Pique, Hummels etc are 'suspect' defensively and people never question whether its a completely different job being a defender in a Simeone team than a Klopp or Guardiola team. We saw Terry look completely useless in AVBs high line system, different defenders are simply suited for different systems.

With regards to Ramos, i dont think hes always 100 percent focused, and when hes not completely focused a fair amount of mistakes creep in to his game, but when hes on it hes an absolutely immense defender as well as being an incredible leader, ball player and clutch scorer. Will go down as one of this generations second tier greats with Xavi Iniesta etc, maybe the greatest defender since Nesta?
 
This is an overreaction. Ramos meant to bring him down and halt his progress but i don't think he meant to injure Salah.

 
I can never get behind the idea of Ramos being an all time great. I've never seen a "top" defender get soo caught up in his own bravado and constantly make mistakes over and over again.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Completely wrong. You haven't watched a lot of Barcelona in recent times. They get attacked a lot.

But in general it's easier being a CB for Madrid and Barcelona. You can get away with a lot of mistakes because your team is so great in attack. And both Ramos and Pique do make a fair amount of mistakes. They are excellent players but their defensive abilities are not outstanding.
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Yes Barcelona post Guardiola are not that different to Real Madrid. I think they still keep possession better than Real in general but in general yea, Piqué is having to deal with much more now than he did before.

I just can't agree with your second point that it's easier being a defender for those teams. Sure you can get away with mistakes but what they are asked to do is something that most defenders are not. They also get less help than most. Of course they make mistakes, my point is who wouldn't in that set up being exposed the way they are? We like to talk about how brilliant Vidic was here and you mention in the other post that we rarely sat back but we did sit back more than Real do. Our full backs were also very solid defensively, one of them (Brown) was a center half. Plenty of times we played with a combo of Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes and Hargreaves, all players who were tasked with sitting in front of the back four and delivering the ball as quickly as possible to the trip of Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez. I love Vida as much as anyone but he never had to deal with the amount of space behind him and to his sides that Ramos does and the same goes for the likes of Terry, Gódin and Chiellini.

Note I am not saying here that Ramos would stand out for us or Chelsea the way Vidic and Terry did. We never saw him play in a team that is set up like that and that type of job has different requirements. It requires higher levels of concentration and consistency which Ramos simply does not possess.
 
BarcaSpurs said:
With regards to Ramos, i dont think hes always 100 percent focused, and when hes not completely focused a fair amount of mistakes creep in to his game, but when hes on it hes an absolutely immense defender as well as being an incredible leader, ball player and clutch scorer. Will go down as one of this generations second tier greats with Xavi Iniesta etc, maybe the greatest defender since Nesta?
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Yup, that's really his one major weakness. He never showed the necessary levels of concentration and focus required if you defend deeper and invite more pressure. If he played a in a team that is more comfortable defending, you'd get the feeling he can't head out those crosses and keeping that offside line consistently enough the way a Gódin or Chiellini can for example.

Of course he will go down as an all time great. His numbers alone will ensure that. Those great lists are usually biased towards teams that stood out in Europe or internationally. The way other defenders defend might be equally difficult to pull off and might have requirements just as daunting, but ultimately, the way Ramos defends has contributed directly in the way his team and national team enjoyed unprecedented successes. This is what history favors even if it can be slightly biased at times.
 
A law suit and an online petition. :lol::lol:

Don't think Ramos did it intentionally. He is a snide player and grabbles and pulls a lot, but I don't think he is that smart to get Salah injured in an arm lock and then come out himself uninjured, all in a few secs.
Grabbling or holding arms is not a new thing. Salah was unlucky that he fell awkwardly.
 
Xaviesta said:
This is an overreaction. Ramos meant to bring him down and halt his progress but i don't think he meant to injure Salah.
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See this is why people laugh at LFC annually. Even you as a Barca supporter can be objective and just admit it was a simply c*ntish foul despite Ramos being a Madrista.

I'm guessing next step will be an international tribunal and NATO summit to bomb Ramos' house from orbit.
 
Attila said:
He stood on Ramos' foot
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sure sure and that justified Ramos scene let's not be ridiculous and he does that all the time, against Liverpool he managed to get a player booked for a non existent foul and punched the keeper and then threw himself on the ground. Its part of his arsenal, he is a great defender but also a massive cheat, denying it just a joke

 
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