Sergio Ramos | Signs new 5 year contract

[LilRicky]

I dont remember 'chasing a signature' for Ozil, Modrić, Kroos and Bale. I only remember us being interested..

If a club is interested in a player, wouldn't that suggest they want to sign them?

Use whatever terms you like, it's the same thing.

And how you can't recall United's interest in Kroos is incredible, Moyes spent the entire summer attempting to convince him to sign. Ozil was highly sought after also prior to his move to Madrid. Bale I do believe has gone on record and said himself that there was interest from United.

 

[carvajal]

@LilRicky United sold Beckham ,Ruud and Heinze because they wanted to do it.If you don't like to lose a top goalkeeper then your club should improve the academy or buy northern europe players instead stealing spanish talents from la liga.Atletico was not happy either after losing a talent,using instead a keeper on loan for years

 

[Mali_Zeus]

If a club is interested in a player, wouldn't that suggest they want to sign them?

Use whatever terms you like, it's the same thing.

And how you can't recall United's interest in Kroos is incredible, Moyes spent the entire summer attempting to convince him to sign. Ozil was highly sought after also prior to his move to Madrid. Bale I do believe has gone on record and said himself that there was interest from United.

God I love posters who start a post with laughing.

Anyways.
Being interested isnt the same as starting negotiations or actively trying to sign someone.
convincing to sign (dont remember 'Moyes spending entire summer attemtping to convince Kroos to sign' tbh), highly sought, interest from United, its all very unconcrete. you can laugh all you want but it isnt the same thing.
How can one club which buys a player beat a club which is only interested in that same player.

 

[Getsme]

@LilRicky having a nightmare here

 

[Theonas]

Genuinely surprised at some of the replies if I'm honest, the last ten years roughly have seen United and Real go head to head over many transfer issues, be it buying, selling or fighting over another players signature, more often then not Real have bettered us. Thought I was simply stating the obvious.

People can bring up Everton and Sunderland which is fair, but it's one thing to lose players of the quality of Cleverly and Gibson to one club, but its a whole different story to sell RVN, Beckham, Ronaldo and probably De Gea in a 12 year period all to the same fecking club! Arguably 3 of the best players in their respective positions in the last 3 or 4 decades in Beckham, Ronaldo and De Gea's case.

For anyone that cares to, simply scroll through this very thread and see how many posts are on here from other members with comments that state signing Ramos will finally put us on par with Madrid again and it'll teach them a lesson for undermining us on transfers and its great to see Woodward being hard nosed after years of Real bullying us on transfers. I'm simply echoing their sentiments also.

If you genuinely can't admit Real have fecked us over for years then you must have Perma red tinted goggles on.

I think the reason why people are arguing with you including myself is the simplistic attitude you display to our status compared to Madrid. To be fair, that's not just you as it is an attitude shared by many United fans. You use the fact that they signed players we were linked with as evidence to them being bigger than us but if that is the case, do you also think Chelsea are bigger since they reportedly beat us to Robben, Mikel, Essien, Duff?

You bring up examples of selling players to them and yet if it was the reverse, in the case of all these players (except Ronaldo), the narrative would be "United take Madrid's rejects" instead of "Madrid take players off of United". As has been pointed out to you, all of these players were not wanted anymore either by United or Fergie, Madrid offered them a prestigious way out not too dissimilar to us getting Di Maria from them last year yet no one is pretending that we took a player off of them.

Finally your point about them beating us to signings is factually correct but highly misleading. They adopted as a strategy the pursuing of high profile players to augment their status financially and extend their global reach. Perez valued this even more than winning trophies and it did came at the expense of success. We, especially under Fergie, never adopted such strategy. It was always team first and it sometimes went even too far as was the case in the Hazard saga for example. So of course we lost players to them as we did to Chelsea but you cannot simplify it as a straight case of being fancied less. There is only one significant transfer that they came out on top with and that was Ronaldo's but you can say the same if not more about Figo's from Barcelona and yet no one is talking about Barcelona being continually humped by Madrid.

The point is of course Madrid are a glamorous club, in fact, for the Iberian and South American players, they are more glamorous than us and nobody can argue against that but so are Barcelona, the Milan clubs and maybe even PSG now since this has more to do with cultural factors than sporting ones. Since Perez, they actively worked on building this image of "the" most fancied club in the planet and they did succeed thanks to his aggressive "stars" at all cost strategy but it came at a price. Just because we and other big clubs did not pursue the same strategy, does not make us of lesser status.

 

[united_99]

For God sake, including Heinze is just taking the piss. We couldn't have been happier that RM showed interest as we weren't keen on keeping him and for sure weren't keen at all on selling him to Liverpool. We should actually give RM discount on DDG to show our gratitude. I would say 41.75 mil € instead of 42 mil € should do.

 

[Manny]

Quoting out of context, so can i take it your rolling eyes are because you think i said Madrid are a much bigger club than United yes?

If you read my post you would see i said ''Madrid sign better players from US of course, but that is because they are a much bigger club'' (than Sunderland or Everton)

Unless you disagree?

You're right. My bad. It's just I've seen quotes earlier in the thread referring to Real as the bigger club. Thought you were suggesting similar.

 

[entropy]

For God sake, including Heinze is just taking the piss. We couldn't have been happier that RM showed interest as we weren't keen on keeping him and for sure weren't keen at all on selling him to Liverpool. We should actually give RM discount on DDG to show our gratitude. I would say 41.75 mil € instead of 42 mil € should do.

 

[LilRicky]

@LilRicky United sold Beckham ,Ruud and Heinze because they wanted to do it.If you don't like to lose a top goalkeeper then your club should improve the academy or buy northern europe players instead stealing spanish talents from la liga.Atletico was not happy either after losing a talent,using instead a keeper on loan for years

Of course each of the transfers is unique, they each have their own back story. For us to sell so many great players to one club I do find a bit crazy though.

God I love posters who start a post with laughing.

Anyways.
Being interested isnt the same as starting negotiations or actively trying to sign someone.
convincing to sign (dont remember 'Moyes spending entire summer attemtping to convince Kroos to sign' tbh), highly sought, interest from United, its all very unconcrete. you can laugh all you want but it isnt the same thing.

Apologies if it upsets you, but I do find it funny because whatever terminology is used there is a desire to sign X player. Ultimately the end goal is the same. If I was looking for a mortgage and I stated I was interested in a particular house for example, wouldn't I therefore be interested in a mortgage for that house? Unless of course a better offer showed up.

@LilRicky having a nightmare here

Tough crowd

I think the reason why people are arguing with you including myself is the simplistic attitude you display to our status compared to Madrid. To be fair, that's not just you as it is an attitude shared by many United fans. You use the fact that they signed players we were linked with as evidence to them being bigger than us but if that is the case, do you also think Chelsea are bigger since they reportedly beat us to Robben, Mikel, Essien, Duff?

You bring up examples of selling players to them and yet if it was the reverse, in the case of all these players (except Ronaldo), the narrative would be "United take Madrid's rejects" instead of "Madrid take players off of United". As has been pointed out to you, all of these players were not wanted anymore either by United or Fergie, Madrid offered them a prestigious way out not too dissimilar to us getting Di Maria from them last year yet no one is pretending that we took a player off of them.

Finally your point about them beating us to signings is factually correct but highly misleading. They adopted as a strategy the pursuing of high profile players to augment their status financially and extend their global reach. Perez valued this even more than winning trophies and it did came at the expense of success. We, especially under Fergie, never adopted such strategy. It was always team first and it sometimes went even too far as was the case in the Hazard saga for example. So of course we lost players to them as we did to Chelsea but you cannot simplify it as a straight case of being fancied less. There is only one significant transfer that they came out on top with and that was Ronaldo's but you can say the same if not more about Figo's from Barcelona and yet no one is talking about Barcelona being continually humped by Madrid.

The point is of course Madrid are a glamorous club, in fact, for the Iberian and South American players, they are more glamorous than us and nobody can argue against that but so are Barcelona, the Milan clubs and maybe even PSG now since this has more to do with cultural factors than sporting ones. Since Perez, they actively worked on building this image of "the" most fancied club in the planet and they did succeed thanks to his aggressive "stars" at all cost strategy but it came at a price. Just because we and other big clubs did not pursue the same strategy, does not make us of lesser status.

Firstly, I never said Madrid were bigger than us. United are the most profitable club in the world and that is fact. I wouldn't suggest otherwise. I simply stated they've Bettered us on transfers for a decade or more... and, they have. The quote of mine you took I think is a fair summary of them getting the better of us where transfers are concerned.

No one likes to see their club being bettered, whatever the situation (on the pitch, financially, transfers etc) and perhaps some find it hard to admit. Hence it's ruffled a few feathers on the thread here today.

I'm certainly not the only one on the Caf here who feels our transfer business has left a lot to be desired in the last 10 years or more. There are a lot of issues that need addressing at the club. We often overpay when buying, sell for a pittance (most recently, Nani for £3.5m which is the rumoured fee), there's issues with agents (mostly back when Fergie was here), delays in having transfers completed, leaks getting to the media and actually quotes from the likes of Woodward himself weaking our bargaining position. There is more than enough evidence for United supporters to be aggrieved with regarding transfer policy at the club, weather some want to admit or not.

 

[stevoc]

You're right. My bad. It's just I've seen quotes earlier in the thread referring to Real as the bigger club. Thought you were suggesting similar.

No worries mate it's easily done, done it myself.

 

[Verminator]

This place is surreal at times.
Usually the transfer window.

 

[finneh]

No club is bigger than United. More glamorous? Sure. But not "bigger".

Where I love (Chicago) if you asked an average sports fan who United where they would tell you it's a soccer team in the premier league. Ask them who Real are and two-thirds or more would have no idea.

Just an anecdote but seriously it is laughable to suggest any club is bigger - which implies global awareness, finances, etc - than United.

In 4-5 years it'll be different again. Madrid will still be trying to strong-arm the rest of La Liga into accepting an inequitable TV deal to favour themselves (even though in the long run it hampers all parties) and we'll be turning over more than €1b.

We'll be offering £500k & £600k a week to 5-6 of our best players and they'll be struggling to offer half that to more than 1-2 superstars. Take the Spanish tax rate into consideration and they'll be top class players that can't afford to take the pay cut to join La Liga.

I imagine that's part of the reason the FFP rules are suddenly being "relaxed". Platini has seen the colossal TV deal we're entering into in 16/17 and realises that West Ham will be poaching players from the likes of Dortmund/Atletico.

 

[Theonas]

Firstly, I never said Madrid were bigger than us. United are the most profitable club in the world and that is fact. I wouldn't suggest otherwise. I simply stated they've Bettered us on transfers for a decade or more... and, they have. The quote of mine you took I think is a fair summary of them getting the better of us where transfers are concerned.

No one likes to see their club being bettered, whatever the situation (on the pitch, financially, transfers etc) and perhaps some find it hard to admit. Hence it's ruffled a few feathers on the thread here today.

I'm certainly not the only one on the Caf here who feels our transfer business has left a lot to be desired in the last 10 years or more. There are a lot of issues that need addressing at the club. We often overpay when buying, sell for a pittance (most recently, Nani for £3.5m which is the rumoured fee), there's issues with agents (mostly back when Fergie was here), delays in having transfers completed, leaks getting to the media and actually quotes from the likes of Woodward himself weaking our bargaining position. There is more than enough evidence for United supporters to be aggrieved with regarding transfer policy at the club, weather some want to admit or not.

Fair enough, you never said they were bigger. But suggesting they consistently batter us over transfers is still misleading. As I said, it is no different to the way we lost players to Chelsea. We are interested in a player, they are too but their mentality or shall I say Perez's is "we should get him no matter what coz we can't lose face and we need to promote this image that we are the place to be". Ours or mostly Fergie's was more like "well we would like to but we're not taking $hite from agents or crazy demands". That is why even though you are factually correct, your interpretation is misleading. Add that to the fact that we wanted to get rid of players who happen to find Real willing to take them and it's very easy to form this idea that they "batter" us as you put it.

When it comes to how we did transfer wise, I really think every single set of fans thinks more or less the same about their club. Hindsight is the easiest thing in the world to do. The facts are we were the most successful team in the world behind Barcelona for about 5 or 6 years, we then had a $hitty year and an average one. Looking at the big picture, that is nothing out of the ordinary if you analyse the history of literally any club in the planet. Our strategy led to great successes but like any other strategy, it can sometimes not work out which is why every club go through slumps at some point. This is where we are now, a slump. But there is no need to tear everything we ever did and deem it all wrong. Sure there have been mistakes but that's not the point. The point is no matter what your strategy is, you are never going to enjoy forever success, you will fall behind at some point because that's the nature of football which is exactly what we are going through at the moment.

 

[JPRouve]

In 4-5 years it'll be different again. Madrid will still be trying to strong-arm the rest of La Liga into accepting an inequitable TV deal to favour themselves (even though in the long run it hampers all parties) and we'll be turning over €1b.

It's not the place so I won't discuss it intensively but the individual tv deals are equitable, La Liga is attractive because of Barcelona and Real Madrid. There is a difference between equitable and egalitarian, obviously the second one is nice but not it doesn't make it fair or equitable.

 

[jojojo]

Aren't Real facing a likely transfer ban next year though? I thought one of the reasons we feel in a stronger negotiation position.

Nobody knows. It isn't currently looking like there's an easy case to prove.

Recycling my own post from the newbies:
The Real Madrid situation is more likely to lead to a revision of the rule than a punishment for Madrid. It looks like they stuck very closely by the letter of the law, but not perhaps by its spirit. The rules as written apply to 12 year olds and older, Madrid signed an 11 year old (the rule is changing to apply to 10 year olds now). The rules apply to a player's "first club" in a new country, who have to check that all the regulations are adhered to. Madrid signed some players from Madrid amateur teams (the rules will probably be changed to insist pro clubs re-apply for registration of foreign players). And so on.

That said, maybe they did slip up somewhere along the way, but there's certainly no easy case against them from what's been revealed so far. The case against Barcelona was straightforward, they didn't even actually deny the charges, they just insisted they were acting in the best interests of the kids involved.

 

[Revan]

I dont remember 'chasing a signature' for Ozil, Modrić, Kroos and Bale. I only remember us being interested..

There were rumours that we bid for Bale (even more than Madrid) and I remember us being interested for the other three (and Varane too).

 

[rimaldo]

i reckon he's fecked our mouth and refuses to call the next day.

 

[Hojoon]

http://www.marca.com/en/2015/07/03/en/football/real_madrid/1435912452.html

His mind is made up. He wants out.

As unequivocal as you're going to get. Be interesting to see how this one plays out.

 

[Maroo]

Jamie Jackson saying we won't sell DDG unless we get Ramos

 

[JPRouve]

If a club is interested in a player, wouldn't that suggest they want to sign them?

Use whatever terms you like, it's the same thing.

And how you can't recall United's interest in Kroos is incredible, Moyes spent the entire summer attempting to convince him to sign. Ozil was highly sought after also prior to his move to Madrid. Bale I do believe has gone on record and said himself that there was interest from United.

I don't understand your point, here.

United have no right to purchase a player over anyone, you say that we were interested in those players, what make you think that they weren't interested in those players before United? And even if United were interested before Real Madrid, why should they back off?

 

[JB08]

Has there actually been anything official, or all speculation from Sky? (Whom I now give up in trusting.) If we have truly made a bid, why has nobody said anything about it? I know his friend/brother/whatever said he wants to leave but until there's any evidence I can't get myself excited.

 

[Grib]

This place is surreal at times.
Usually the transfer window.

You haven't been here on match days/post match days then? I'd consider this all pretty tame if you are to compare outrageousness (yes i think i made that word up!)

 

[LilRicky]

I don't understand your point, here.

United have no right to purchase a player over anyone, you say that we were interested in those players, what make you think that they weren't interested in those players before United? And even if United were interested before Real Madrid, why should they back off?

I'm simply stating that in most instances in recent years when United and Real have gone head to head over signing a player, Real have won the players signature. I wouldn't suggest we have a divine right to any player, nor would I suggest should Madrid to back off.

I am stating that we have quite a few issues with our transfer policies in recent years, such as overpaying, selling for less than the players value, uncertainty on how to conduct transfers, delays & how we deal with the media regarding transfers. Madrid seem to have prospered the most from our poor transfer policies the most.

 

[finneh]

It's not the place so I won't discuss it intensively but the individual tv deals are equitable, La Liga is attractive because of Barcelona and Real Madrid. There is a difference between equitable and egalitarian, obviously the second one is nice but not it doesn't make it fair or equitable.

Depends on your definition of what's fair and equitable I suppose. My belief is that without the other clubs no-one would pay to watch Real play their B team every week. As I said it's a bizarre stance either way as in the long term a more equal distribution helps substantially increase the pie, so everyone gets a bigger slice. However as you say not the correct thread.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm simply stating that in most instances in recent years when United and Real have gone head to head over signing a player, Real have won the players signature. I wouldn't suggest we have a divine right to any player, nor would I suggest should Madrid to back off.

I am stating that we have quite a few issues with our transfer policies in recent years, such as overpaying, selling for less than the players value, uncertainty on how to conduct transfers, delays & how we deal with the media regarding transfers. Madrid seem to have prospered the most from our poor transfer policies the most.

Madrid hasn't prospered from our poor transfer policies, United has never been Madrid's equal in the transfer market and never will, if you somehow dream about a world where it is possible, you better wake up or your nightmares will haunt you forever. Madrid don't give a feck about United when it comes to transfers.

 

[JPRouve]

Depends on your definition of what's fair and equitable I suppose. My belief is that without the other clubs no-one would pay to watch Real play their B team every week. As I said it's a bizarre stance either way as in the long term a more equal distribution helps substantially increase the pie, so everyone gets a bigger slice. However as you say not the correct thread.

You can swap the 18 other teams with 18 teams from Liga Adelante and the TV rights of Madrid and Barcelona will stay about the same. La Liga is Barcelona-Madrid, the others are sparring partners.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Apologies if it upsets you, but I do find it funny because whatever terminology is used there is a desire to sign X player. Ultimately the end goal is the same. If I was looking for a mortgage and I stated I was interested in a particular house for example, wouldn't I therefore be interested in a mortgage for that house? Unless of course a better offer showed up.

It doesnt upset me. it just amuses me.
Bad example which again didnt prove your point.

Anyways I'm of this offtopic wagon anyway.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The infamous muppet slayer, as recognised on here, or otherwise known as Jamie Jackson reporting that we are refusing to sell De Gea unless we get Ramos.

If true, it's great to hear.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

There were rumours that we bid for Bale (even more than Madrid) and I remember us being interested for the other three (and Varane too).

I think that was just a rumor.

 

[Manny]

I'm simply stating that in most instances in recent years when United and Real have gone head to head over signing a player, Real have won the players signature. I wouldn't suggest we have a divine right to any player, nor would I suggest should Madrid to back off.

I am stating that we have quite a few issues with our transfer policies in recent years, such as overpaying, selling for less than the players value, uncertainty on how to conduct transfers, delays & how we deal with the media regarding transfers. Madrid seem to have prospered the most from our poor transfer policies the most.

"Buying the best at any cost" always trumps "Value in the market". If we are both in for player, I'd imagine we loose at transfer fee stage.

Besides, we never go public with the players we are interested in, so its impossible to know who Real have beat us to.

 

[Ramshock]

@LilRicky United sold Beckham ,Ruud and Heinze because they wanted to do it.If you don't like to lose a top goalkeeper then your club should improve the academy or buy northern europe players instead stealing spanish talents from la liga.Atletico was not happy either after losing a talent,using instead a keeper on loan for years

Because Northern Europe is just a hotbed of talent these days. Its not the 90's anymore smartarse

 

[LilRicky]

I think that was just a rumor.

It was definitely more than rumour.

And Moyes admits he was left disappointed by missing out on Bale.

"When I got the job, I thought Gareth Bale would have been a super Manchester United player," he said.

"I thought he had that look about him that you expect to see in Manchester United players.

"He was someone we were really interested in but he had his heart set on Real Madrid."

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/555147/David-Moyes-100m-Gareth-Bale-Manchester-United

 

[LilRicky]

"Buying the best at any cost" always trumps "Value in the market". If we are both in for player, I'd imagine we loose at transfer fee stage.

Besides, we never go public with the players we are interested in, so its impossible to know who Real have beat us to.

I gave some examples earlier which have truth to them. Moyes was of course linked strongly with Kroos & Bale (I've just posted a link where Moyes admitted as much). Ozil back in Fergies last few years, Modric was another we were very strongly linked to by multiple media outlets back when his move from Spurs happened.

All of them opted for Madrid over United. Again, it is a can of worms situation to go into each players transfer situation but the fact remains Madrid beat us to each signature it seems based on quotes in interview since.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I know this could all still end badly for united, but it is quite funny what is going on here, Madrid would likely have thought they could swagger on in take DDG for peanuts, then swagger back out of town as kings of the transfer market once again.

Whether Ramos was planned all along, or he's just using us, doesn't really matter because if media is right we'll either have DDG, or Ramos next season, which is a far better outcome than expected.....atm its all quite amusing.

 

[Getsme]

"Buying the best at any cost" always trumps "Value in the market". If we are both in for player, I'd imagine we loose at transfer fee stage.

Besides, we never go public with the players we are interested in, so its impossible to know who Real have beat us to.

The best manager to ever play the game would call that a load of bollocks, and rightly so.

 

[ravi2]

I gave some examples earlier which have truth to them. Moyes was of course linked strongly with Kroos & Bale (I've just posted a link where Moyes admitted as much). Ozil back in Fergies last few years, Modric was another we were very strongly linked to by multiple media outlets back when his move from Spurs happened.

All of them opted for Madrid over United. Again, it is a can of worms situation to go into each players transfer situation but the fact remains Madrid beat us to each signature it seems based on quotes in interview since.

Moyes was linked with every player under the sun, I dont think anyone top tier player really wanted to play for him, We bid more than Madrid but we bid late in the game when Bale already had his mind made up.

We had interest in Ozil but never bid for him and as for Modric SAF didnt want to deal with Levy again (and didnt want to pay the £40M that Levy demanded.... Real bought him for £37.5M a season after)

If we were willing to pay the market rate for players in the past we could have gotten them, especially as we were buying from a position of power, now we are playing catch up but after by next year we will be right back where we should be.

 

[LilRicky]

Moyes was linked with every player under the sun, I dont think anyone top tier player really wanted to play for him, We bid more than Madrid but we bid late in the game when Bale already had his mind made up.

We had interest in Ozil but never bid for him and as for Modric SAF didnt want to deal with Levy again (and didnt want to pay the £40M that Levy demanded.... Real bought him for £37.5M a season after)

If we were willing to pay the market rate for players in the past we could have gotten them, especially as we were buying from a position of power, now we are playing catch up but after by next year we will be right back where we should be.

Being linked with every player under the sun, is the nature of the beast at United. Isn't the same thing happening now this summer? I do agree though that any top level player most likely thought the idea of playing for Moyes to be a living nightmare!

Your next two paragraphs sum up some of the issues United have in their transfer policies, allowing ourselves to be dictated to by Levy. We are a far bigger club than Spurs and shouldn't of allowed ourselves to be bullied by him.

The ideal outcome (albeit a bit of a long shot as it stands now) is De Gea stays and we managed to sign Ramos. Some media outlets today are saying the power is switching in our favour, I've no idea how true that is though. I believe that would definitely put us back on level terms with Madrid in the transfer market, considering we also signed Di Maria last season.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

I gave some examples earlier which have truth to them. Moyes was of course linked strongly with Kroos & Bale (I've just posted a link where Moyes admitted as much). Ozil back in Fergies last few years, Modric was another we were very strongly linked to by multiple media outlets back when his move from Spurs happened.

All of them opted for Madrid over United. Again, it is a can of worms situation to go into each players transfer situation but the fact remains Madrid beat us to each signature it seems based on quotes in interview since.

I give you Bale, but did we put a bid for either Modrić, Ozil or Kroos?

being linked with some player doesnt mean anything.
We were linked with Thiago but other than him signing an United ball it has never gone beyond that point.

 

[carvajal]

Because Northern Europe is just a hotbed of talent these days. Its not the 90's anymore smartarse

Why am I a smartarse?

 

[tippex]

I'm on the positivity train on this and reckon DeGea is gonna get pissed off and gonna sign a new deal with us, Ramos is going to come to us after kicking up a storm and then it will be annonced that Real have indeed been given a transfer ban. Choo Choo!!!!