Don't know how to explain. If you watch him and Dezko play you understand. It's like, they lack that kind of killer mentality, that hunger to destroy. They lack intensity for lack of a better word
Sergej Milinkovic Savic
- Thread starter R'hllor
- Start date
Watching the kid again in the Coppa Italia.
Again no way is he a holding midfielder, he'd be wasted in that position. Offers so much more than that.
Again no way is he a holding midfielder, he'd be wasted in that position. Offers so much more than that.
Who said he was a holding midfielder?
you keep missing the pointpogs was yours own, he left on a free and you bought him back for a record fee, call it a shrewd piece of business
Speaking of 90's (million Euros), Higuain called, he needs another salciccia.
Marotta did some really good business there.
Juve is scouring for deals, cuz you have no money. Khedira, Matuidi, Can these are some crap players.
As someone who watches Serie A quite often, not impressed by SMS, certainly not at the prices quoted. Italian clubs love asking for outrageous money (Bellotti for 100 million Euros this summer?), and Lottito and Tare know how to drive a good bargain. He is not proven at the highest levels, would be a gamble.
"IMO his defensive nous is better than Pogba's. He'd replace Carrick superbly in our squad"
"Its is true He is used as an AM at Lazio because he is very good at attacking. But make no mistake about it, the guy is a natural for the deeper roles in a 4-2-3-1. Just like Gruljic at Pool. Or say a Saul at Atletico. He'd not be out of place deeper."
Page 1 of this thread for a start.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he could tackle and cut balls out like Matic but given his ability going forward he'd be wasted purely playing that position.
Regardless of position debate, he is a proper talent. Love the way he glides around the pitch running with the ball.
I agree with you, I definitely believe he could play a more disciplined role in midfield.
Can he able to play in 3 man midfield along with Matic and Pogba?
Pogba————-Savic
———-Matic———-
Pogba————-Savic
———-Matic———-
It would be awesome
Anything concrete on this guy? He really does seem like a textbook jose signing. Surely if united want him he would put some pressure on to get it done...
you keep missing the point
Beppe from Eastenders...
Pogba would have been a target for a club of Uniteds stature regardless and his transfer outlay has most likely been recouped already. Yes it was a mistake for Fergie to let it happen but he is back anyway. I hope we do get Dybala from Juve now to turn down this smugness from you lot.
Kroos has 4 years on Pogba and Modric 8
I'm not entirely sold on this guy. I think we need a player whose forte is to dictate play and can really pass. Somoene like Kroos and Carrick. Maybe Matic can do it, but i'm don't know. SMS's forte seems to be driving the ball forward via running and dribbling skills. Something similar to Pogba.
Our problem is, we need someone like Kroos to sit and pass the ball foward. Not run with the ball forward. Doing so, Pogba is able to stay higher up the pitch. If we get SMS, i have a feeling he and Pogba won't be dovetailing nicely.
Our problem is, we need someone like Kroos to sit and pass the ball foward. Not run with the ball forward. Doing so, Pogba is able to stay higher up the pitch. If we get SMS, i have a feeling he and Pogba won't be dovetailing nicely.
The problem is not someone that sits, the problem is we lack a playmaker in attack. Someone capable of keeping the ball in advanced areas, knitting play, delivering the final balls and bringing others into play.
Matic already does the sitting and adding another defensive midfielder just beside him means the onus will be on Pogba alone to support the front three.
Pogba himself lacks the mentality to be far from the ball for a long time and loves to drop deep to constantly get on the ball, and that will leave our attack isolated for long spells as the midfield brings the ball forward.
We need an advanced playmaker ala Eriksen, Silva, Ozil more than a regista. Even if we get a Kroos-like player, we have to play him in an advanced role - his Bayern role, not deep.
In a way you'e both right but imo slightly missing the point re: what we need.
There is alot of talk about what we miss in terms of positions and mentions of whether it is Jorginho we need, or SMS or Ozil.. All linked to confusion on what we want Pogba to become and tactical confusion of how we want our midfield to set up.
My concern is more about the current composition of the midfield in terms of dynamism and coverage of the pitch.. and lack of control of possession against better sides or being able to wrestle back control of a game when it is drifting away from us in terms of momentum. Our big flaw is we have two really tall guys in there both of whom who don't really move around with quick fleeted dynamism and take a while to get those long legs going. Further more they're both not that elusive in possession, not really fast paced quick pass and go midfielders and are quite static in the way they move across the pitch preferring to get it to feet and holding off opposition using their physiclity and then making the pass. It is too slow for the modern game.
Our third midfielder will need to bring that dynamism and counterbalance the weaknesses that Pogba Matic have. Ozil won't really bring that dynamism, SMS is another tall, lanky player which I fear will exacerbate the current issue albeit he is class. Jorginho might be a good fit but we would still lack a more fast paced playmaker in final third.
Classic Jose midfield had more energetic diminutive defensive and attack minded midfielders and wasn't as height focused. Which allowed them to be robust defensively but also have lots of legs and dynamism in possession. Guys like Makalele, Essien, Cambiasso, Deco, Sneijder were mainstays of a Jose midfield and therefore I don't understand his current over obsession with physicality as you dont need talk players in such a dynamic part of the pitch.
I understand what you're trying to imply, but Matic and Pogba although not as fast, are technically as good as, if not better than those guys you mentioned with the exception of perhaps, Sneijder and Deco. It's probably a coincidence that two of our midfield signings under Mourinho are tall physical midfielders, rather a case of Jose being obsessed with physicality.
We need - like you said - dynamic players, but what we need also have to counterbalance the position we need and that means we need a dynamic playmaker to complete the middle too. Matic-Pogba's presence at the other side of the fulcrum means it has to be an advanced player in the Sneidjer, Deco, Oscar mould - precisely why I argued position-wise in the first post.
Adding a deep-lying playmaker and putting Pogba in an advanced role would make the midfield even more static as Pogba lacks the nimbleness to constantly evade tight spaces in an advanced position, meaning he will constantly drop deep, thereby creating a narrow midfield, restricting space and isolating the attack.
Kroos, Modric, De Bruyne are not faster than Pogba, it's just that they are quicker in mind and execution, and that is what the playmaker should bring.
Ozil although lacking defensively has those qualities. He's quite dynamic with the ball - although not good without it -, and his pace when moving with the ball is top notch. I'm open to signing a faster midfielder than Ozil though, but few could match his grace, precision and speed of passing.
Our inability to wrestle the ball back from the opposition in the big games also stem from the fact we use a low block, restricting space rather than pressing head-on to get back possession. Our forwards being Martial and Lukaku hardly help matters too. City have Sterling Sane Jesus, Liverpool have Firmino, Salah, Mane. Their midfielders are not flat-out faster than ours, it's just that their attackers are far more active out of possession. We look more dynamic with Lingard in the team for example.
Like I said before, I was arguing position-wise in my first post. Pogba, Matic, Lukaku and Martial are already here, there's nothing else we could do about that right now other than filling the holed positions with dynamic players. I'm open to signing any quality midfielder provided they play in an advanced role, not a deep one.
Hence, i suggested someone like Kroos to sit and link up the defence and midfield. Doing so prevents Pogba from coming back to receive the ball. The idea here is to keep Pogba higher up the pitch.
If we play a 4-3-3, the front three could be Martial, Lukaku and Ozil (hopefully). The next line of three could be Matic, Pogba and a Carrick type of player. I have reserves with getting a player like Pogba, i.e., SMS. I do not wish for us to have the Gerrard Lampard problem.
We could run with that formation for tougher games. Of course, if we are playing against supposedly inferior teams, we could always play a 4-2-3-1 with Pogba and Matic at the 2.
I'm not head over heels for SMS too, but the problem with signing a deep-lying playmaker is due to Pogba.
Even if the idea is to keep him in an advanced position, he won't be comfortable there. Like I said before, he's not the best in tight spaces and he lacks the nimbleness and mentality to stay on the peripheral for a long time - which is what you'd expect in a advanced role, even with a DLP bringing the ball forward from behind.
The result would be him constantly dropping deep to find space and get a better view of the pitch, thereby creating a very narrow and pseudo-defensive midfield and worse, a static defensive one.
It's obvious we need a playmaker, but I think he should be an advanced playmaker over a deep one, with Pogba doing the defence-attack link thingy and driving forward to join the attack when space opens up.
David Amoyal gives his take on SMS. The quote at the bottom is particularly interesting.
But while being closer to the opposition’s box highlights Milinkovic Savic’s offensive skills, his likely best position is probably a bit further back. When I started watching him two players came to mind- Diego Simeone and Paul Pogba, and the fact that they were so polar opposites speaks volumes to the completeness of MSM’s game (or to my lack of football acumen).
Aside from fact Diego Simeone also played for Lazio, there are also other parallels between the two. Before being moved up the pitch at the beginning of the season, Milinkovic Savic played a more defensive role- just like el Cholo his grinta, determination, dynamism and overall toughness are traits you see immediately when you watch him, but these qualities are in addition with the ability to score numerous goals (Simeone ended his career with over 100 at the club level).
But while being closer to the opposition’s box highlights Milinkovic Savic’s offensive skills, his likely best position is probably a bit further back. When I started watching him two players came to mind- Diego Simeone and Paul Pogba, and the fact that they were so polar opposites speaks volumes to the completeness of MSM’s game (or to my lack of football acumen).
Aside from fact Diego Simeone also played for Lazio, there are also other parallels between the two. Before being moved up the pitch at the beginning of the season, Milinkovic Savic played a more defensive role- just like el Cholo his grinta, determination, dynamism and overall toughness are traits you see immediately when you watch him, but these qualities are in addition with the ability to score numerous goals (Simeone ended his career with over 100 at the club level).
Very good video of SMS' first half of the season.
He’s similar to pogba in that video. Looks a great player though. If we went 4-3-3, could him and pogba work with Matic behind them? I know from that video he seems to play towards the left of the midfield, but that’s pogba’s best position, arguably. so I guess he’d be on the right?
Last edited:
Are you a regular watcher of Lazio?
He is a great player, headache to find his best position in our team with Pogba
Probably. Although you might want someone slightly better than Matic at distributing the ball/passing through the lines, playing in behind them. Jorginho/Weigl, for instance. Of course, that would probably be the most expensive midfield three ever compiled in the history of football.
Would love him here. Very very good player . Where will be play is a headache but a headache I would like to have
That’s true. Maybe a Weigl and a SMS this summer?
Would be rather nice, wouldn't it. Poor Woodward would have a heart attack when he saw that bill.That would be the set-up. We're definitely not getting him and Ozil both. Neither would sign to be a squad player. With him we'd have a pretty physically dominant midfield and all very good on the ball. With Ozil we'd be very fluid in the attacking third. Either would be a great acquisition but it's a task to fit them into the team whilst optimising conditions for Pogba to flourish.
I think Ozil and Savic can be played in different area of the pitch,how about Ozil at RW or tip of the Diamond,
Martial---Lukaku----Ozil
Pogba-------------Savic
--------Matic---------
Or
Martial----------Lakaku
--------Ozil-----------
Pogba----------Savic
--------Matic---------
I could see that top formation being used as a regular thing if we did sign both. I do think Ozil has the skill and guile to play that RW role as an inside type of player. Granted he won’t provide width, that’s have to come from Tony V.
Agree on the first set up. Ozil was pretty devastating for Mourinho's Madrid on the right wing (he obviously cut in). We are crying out for an upgrade on Mata/Mkhi on the right and Ozil could provide that. Plus the 4-3-3 brings the best out of Pogba. Win-win all around.
Well, he only played there in the big games, so he was everything but pretty devastating.
He was devastating in the big games there.
He played through the middle for the vast majority of his time in Madrid (flanked by Di Maria and Ronaldo).
Nowhere near his perfomances in the No.10 role though.
Eh, no. He was pretty bad the few times he had to play on the wing
I like it and no doubt it would be a good footballing side, but my concern is the lack of goals. Ozil isn't a big goalscorer and does best with options ahead of him. A 2 man strike force with no wingers just lacks potency, especially when they both still have question marks over their consistency in scoring throughout the season (Lukaku scores good numbers but in a smaller amount of matches than required to win the league).
Matic is very defensive and Pogba is best played far upfront. It's the link between the two players on the pitch that needs to be addressed. We need a true CM. Someone who can do both decent defensive and attacking duties. Would have been awesome if we could find a dynamic box to box player who would be able to slot alongside Matic as a double CDM if need be. I am not entirely sure if this player fits that bill but he does look exciting.
I posted an article from David Amoyal who works for Di Marzio and is a avid follower of Serie A, and according to him SMS would best be utilised in a deeper role to where he's playing now.
Same as Pogba