[Roboc7]

That's not downplaying. That's stating an opinion on how fans see fringe players.

Yes. McTominay was superb at the start of the season . It wasn't until Casemiro came in that McTominay was dropped.

How have you worked out he was siperb?, that’s just ridiculous. He didn’t play many games and was dropped for being appalling in two of those. Seems odd if he was superb he’s hadn’t started a league game since first week of October.

All players get criticism, it’s not just fringe players. That’s irrelevant to Mctominay he just isn’t very good and rarely plays at the required level, you are comparing him to better players he has no relevance to and downplaying that they were better as revisionism.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He wouldn't?
Yet he's highly rated by mangers who have won many PL titles?

He's the latest scapegoat for fans
When he leaves we will find someone else. And someone else after that.

Jog my memory, how many of those league titles did McT help them win again?

I hope you find someone in your personal life who’s as loyal to your lack of abilities as you are to his.

As for him being a scapegoat, it’s as laughable as his ability on the ball. See the treatment of Rashford for the past few years.

 

[Zippycup]

How have you worked out he was siperb?, that’s just ridiculous. He didn’t play many games and was dropped for being appalling in two of those. Seems odd if he was superb he’s hadn’t started a league game since first week of October.

All players get criticism, it’s not just fringe players. That’s irrelevant to Mctominay he just isn’t very good and rarely plays at the required level, you are comparing him to better players he has no relevance to and downplaying that they were better as revisionism.

He hasn't started because he has the world's best defensive midfielder playing in front of him.
Again. I'm not comparing him to anybody. Are you reading what you want to read and ignoring what I've actually said?

If we weren't winning trophies the likes of Fletcher would have got dogs abuse. FFS. He got abuse even when we were winning.

 

[Zippycup]

Jog my memory, how many of those league titles did McT help them win again?

I hope you find someone in your personal life who’s as loyal to your lack of abilities as you are to his.

As for him being a scapegoat, it’s as laughable as his ability on the ball. See the treatment of Rashford for the past few years.

How many PL titles has any player in the current squad won?

You're little personal dig is very telling to your argument on this matter.

 

[edgecutter]

20 passes in 90 mins. Let that sink in...20 passes in 90 mins means one pass every 4.5 mins. Definition of hiding is our Scott

 

[Roboc7]

He hasn't started because he has the world's best defensive midfielder playing in front of him.
Again. I'm not comparing him to anybody. Are you reading what you want to read and ignoring what I've actually said?

If we weren't winning trophies the likes of Fletcher would have got dogs abuse. FFS. He got abuse even when we were winning.

Fletcher got criticism, every player does but he also got lots of praise and was so highly thought of it was a huge loss he missed a Champions League. That’s what’s missing with Mctominay, the good part, he gets the criticism because he isn’t good enough. You downplay Fletcher by comparing him to Mctominay.

Why are you ignoring explaining this superb start to the season?. DVB and Fred got starts seems odd as Mctominay was so superb.

 

[AndySmith1990]

20 passes in 90 mins. Let that sink in...20 passes in 90 mins means one pass every 4.5 mins. Definition of hiding is our Scott

He provides no value when he has the ball anyway

 

[Idxomer]

Should be stickied for these weirdos bringing up Butt and Fletcher.

Fletcher used to make more passes when playing for Stoke and WBA in his last few seasons before retiring. The comparisons always came only because they are both Scottish.

 

[Jeffthered]

I actually think he started v well, first half he was good.. for him, because how much can we expect from McTominay. I'm loathe to really have a go, but he frustrates me because he should want, really, really want to be the heart, soul and power of this team.. do any of you remember Gattuso, the former AC Milan player? Or Antonio Conte when he played...That's the spirit we need from McTominay.

But he's neither a ball winner, inspirational figure, passer, goal scoring midfielder.

Just another comfortable (a la Martial, and many others we have seen...) footballer at Manchester United with limited ambition. Is McTominay a winner?

That culture is changing under ETH, thankfully.

 

[Ananke]

Bottom line is he isn’t good enough for United. He fades into the background, in a position which is crucial not to, far too often. And when he does show up he’s bang average at best.

He’s a good lad but we need to keep a consistent quality throughout the squad. He’s not it.

 

[11101]

20 passes in 90 mins. Let that sink in...20 passes in 90 mins means one pass every 4.5 mins. Definition of hiding is our Scott

Quite a few times Varane was left with no option but to play it sideways or backwards because McTominay made no attempt to drop into space to receive a pass. He was sitting right next to or behind his man hoping he didn't get the ball.

Its refreshing that we finally have a good manager who can see he's not good enough but even without Casemiro Arsenal were for the taking. Had Fred played we would have had a much better chance. The third goal certainly wouldn't have happened.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

You're little personal dig is very telling to your argument on this matter.

At no point did I make a ‘dig’. Let’s not dilute this discussion further.

If you’d like to discuss the merits you see in McT fine but let’s not subvert.

 

[Zippycup]

Fletcher got criticism, every player does but he also got lots of praise and was so highly thought of it was a huge loss he missed a Champions League. That’s what’s missing with Mctominay, the good part, he gets the criticism because he isn’t good enough. You downplay Fletcher by comparing him to Mctominay.

Why are you ignoring explaining this superb start to the season?. DVB and Fred got starts seems odd as Mctominay was so superb.

Again. Revisionism at its best.
Fletcher was considered to only be in the team because he was Scottish.

What are you talking about in regards to DVB and Fred? McTominay has played more minutes than those to combined

 

[Zippycup]

At no point did I make a ‘dig’. Let’s not dilute this discussion further.

If you’d like to discuss the merits you see in McT fine but let’s not subvert.

You litteraly had a personal dig in your previous post to me.
What the feck is going on in this thread.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Again. Revisionism at its best.
Fletcher was considered to only be in the team because he was Scottish.

What are you talking about in regards to DVB and Fred? McTominay has played more minutes than those to combined

At first yes around 05/06 he was slagged off to the heavens but like young players do he improved so much.

08/09 season it all started clicking and he was a brilliant all around midfielder. Until 2010 where he was ill then his career nosedived for obvious reasons.

 

[EdinburghDevil]

I don't see him being moved out in January as I don't think the squad depth is there. I don't see him being at the club beyond the end of this season.

I think ideally we would have someone coming through from the youth team who can learn and cover from Casemiro and we'll also bring in someone who can compete / rotate with Eriksen.

 

[Hughes35]

20 passes in 90 mins. Let that sink in...20 passes in 90 mins means one pass every 4.5 mins. Definition of hiding is our Scott

Wow, that's awful. You should get more than that just with those pointless passes where you play it first time back to who just gave it to you !

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’ve banged this drum plenty of times down the years — it’s the one fundamental flaw that massively hinders everything else about his game; he just doesn’t (or cannot) want to touch the football in matches. He quite literally hides away despite being the biggest man in midfield.

I think that the idea he hides is unfair because that implies some sort of flaw in his character. That’s he’s not brave enough. I think it’s more likely he’s just lacking the necessary skillset. There’s an art to finding little pockets of space in midfield to receive a pass. And it‘s something he’s never been any good at. The only time he’s ever been useful is when games are stretched (against, say, a chaotic team like Leeds) which opens up much bigger gaps in midfield than usual. Which is how he sometimes looks competent. But in the vast majority of games he’s out of his depth. Literally has no clue where he needs to be at any given moment. It’s painful to watch.

 

[Roboc7]

Again. Revisionism at its best.
Fletcher was considered to only be in the team because he was Scottish.

What are you talking about in regards to DVB and Fred? McTominay has played more minutes than those to combined

Do you know what revisionism means or just repeating it?. It’s really odd you keep using it in relation to others but then perfectly displaying it yourself. Do you think Fletcher’s Utd career is summed up by him only being in the team because he was Scottish?.

They both started league games since the Man City whilst Mctominay didn’t, despite his imaginary superb performances.

 

[Zippycup]

At first yes around 05/06 he was slagged off to the heavens but like young players do he improved so much.

08/09 season it all started clicking and he was a brilliant all around midfielder. Until 2010 where he was ill then his career nosedived for obvious reasons.

I agree.
And back then twitter wasn't really a thing in the grand scheme of things.
Social media has a serious impact on players.
In 08/09 Fletcher mostly played alongside Carrick and Park ji Sung. Two very intelligent players. McTominay has mostly played with Fred.

 

[Zippycup]

Do you know what revisionism means or just repeating it?. Do you think Fletcher’s Utd career is summed up by him only being in the team because he was Scottish?.

They both started league games since the Man City whilst Mctominay didn’t, despite his imaginary superb performances.

What is it with this site and people not reading what's in front of them?
At the time. People were saying that Fletcher was only in the team because he was Scottish. He was Fergies "little Scottish pet" Bloody hell. Read what's in front of you instead of reading what you want to read.

Yes. Because Casemiro is undropable. Why do you think McTominay started yesterday ahead of Fred? Also. VDB has rarely played as a defensive mid for us.

 

[Longshanks]

He did ok defensively, did the dirty work so to speak. We know he dosent show for the ball enough he isn't a playmaker but we were doing ok while we had a playmaker alongside him in eriksen as soon as we put Fred alongside him we lost our ability to transition and pass through midfield and the long balls weren't sticking and just kept coming back.

We went from being under pressure but still having a threat to being compleatly overrun.

When we manage to recruit another midfielder or two hopefully in the summer he will probably be moved on. But until then we will need him To fill the gaps as and when required and we have to cover for his flaws.

 

[Roboc7]

What is it with this site and people not reading what's in front of them?
At the time. People were saying that Fletcher was only in the team because he was Scottish. He was Fergies "little Scottish pet" Bloody hell. Read what's in front of you instead of reading what you want to read.

Yes. Because Casemiro is undropable. Why do you think McTominay started yesterday ahead of Fred? Also. VDB has rarely played as a defensive mid for us.

Maybe read what’s in front of you yourself, I’d also look up what revisionism means because you’ve genuinely not grasped it.

 

[Zippycup]

Maybe read what’s in front of you yourself, I’d also look up what revisionism means because you’ve genuinely not grasped it.

You're a very hard person to have a conversation with. Little tip. Try actually listening to the other person. It helps. Honestly.

 

[Tibs]

Actual dog shit performance.

We should try and sign a backup for Casemiro in this window, and let McT go.

 

[Godfather]

The thing that pissed me off most was his constant hiding when we were in possession. The reason Arse could play out of the back so easily was because they always had a player making himself available in midfield. We didn't have that at all so we went back to passing it between our CBs and DDG until one of them hoofed it to an oppo player or straight out of play. It was so reminding of the last couple of years.

 

[Roboc7]

You're a very hard person to have a conversation with. Little tip. Try actually listening to the other person. It helps. Honestly.

Thats actually a great tip you should follow yourself. Stating Fletcher got criticism and praise is not revisionism, not even close.

If I said something like Fletcher got dogs abuse whilst we were winning trophies, ignoring all the praise he got and him being missed in a Champions League final that would be revisionism.

 

[Sylar]

This is his seventh season for us (sixth full one). Mad

 

[Zippycup]

Thats actually a great tip you should follow yourself. Stating Fletcher got criticism and praise is not revisionism, not even close.

If I said something like Fletcher got dogs abuse whilst we were winning trophies, ignoring all the praise he got and him being missed in a Champions League final that would be revisionism.

Bloody hell

 

[CM]

McTominay was absolutely rancid yesterday, same as he was when he came off the bench against Palace. It's quite clear his time is up here, he can't even be trusted to do a job as a squad player when other players are flagging or unavailable. If the Newcastle interest is genuine, get him gone.

 

[Zippycup]

McTominay was absolutely rancid yesterday, same as he was when he came off the bench against Palace. It's quite clear his time is up here, he can't even be trusted to do a job as a squad player when other players are flagging or unavailable. If the Newcastle interest is genuine, get him gone.

And be left with who for the remainder of the season?

 

[NZT-One]

He did ok defensively, did the dirty work so to speak. We know he dosent show for the ball enough he isn't a playmaker but we were doing ok while we had a playmaker alongside him in eriksen as soon as we put Fred alongside him we lost our ability to transition and pass through midfield and the long balls weren't sticking and just kept coming back.

We went from being under pressure but still having a threat to being compleatly overrun.

When we manage to recruit another midfielder or two hopefully in the summer he will probably be moved on. But until then we will need him To fill the gaps as and when required and we have to cover for his flaws.

Not sure if you noticed that Fred came onto the pitch for Antony, not Eriksen. And we where pretty much under the cosh already when the subs where made. Fred certainly didn't use his minutes to impress but putting the blame on him makes no sense.

 

[CM]

And be left with who for the remainder of the season?

Give his minutes to Iqbal or Mainoo for all I care. I think it will be one more for the summer because I don't think the manager will want to lose another player in an already quite thin squad, but at this point I don't think McTominay can be trusted against a higher level of opposition than either of those players.

McTominay doesn't have the awareness or defensive capabilities to protect the back four, or the passing ability to create anything or even retain the ball. The only justification I can think of for him being in the team is because he's tall, which is a rubbish reason really.

 

[Zippycup]

Give his minutes to Iqbal or Mainoo for all I care. I think it will be one more for the summer because I don't think the manager will want to lose another player in an already quite thin squad, but at this point I don't think McTominay can be trusted against a higher level of opposition than either of those players.

McTominay doesn't have the awareness or defensive capabilities to protect the back four, or the passing ability to create anything or even retain the ball. The only justification I can think of for him being in the team is because he's tall, which is a rubbish reason really.

So our fans can then aim their abuse at two young kids who are nowhere near ready for the first team?

McTominay hasn't played regularly in months and we dropped him into a midfield two with Erikson against the steongest team in the league. Away from home. He was always on a hiding to nothing.

 

[groovyalbert]

Will need a huge turnaround second half of the season to convince ETH he's worth sticking with.

He is such a limited player who in many ways has epitomized our poor standards the past 5 years or so.

 

[elmo]

Again. Revisionism at its best.
Fletcher was considered to only be in the team because he was Scottish.

What are you talking about in regards to DVB and Fred? McTominay has played more minutes than those to combined

That’s when he was played in the wings when he was first breaking through into the team and he still provided more to a team that won than Scott does to a team that has no choice but to play him in midfield.

Scott is almost 28 and not even a fraction of the player Fletcher turned out to be. Comparing them is a fecking insult.

 

[CM]

So our fans can then aim their abuse at two young kids who are nowhere near ready for the first team?

McTominay hasn't played regularly in months and we dropped him into a midfield two with Erikson against the steongest team in the league. Away from home. He was always on a hiding to nothing.

Honestly Iqbal looked more ready to handle the responsibility of playing for Man Utd in pre-season than McTominay does right now. He at least knows how to take care of the football.

I'm not saying it's an ideal scenario but it's no less ideal than McTominay having to take those minutes. We already know what McTominay's about now, and the answer is not much. Every time he's stepped onto the pitch recently it has handed momentum to the opposition team. The only game I would trust McTominay to start right now is the cup game against Reading, and I wouldn't feel any less comfortable chucking one of Iqbal or Mainoo in there.

 

[Longshanks]

Not sure if you noticed that Fred came onto the pitch for Antony, not Eriksen. And we where pretty much under the cosh already when the subs where made. Fred certainly didn't use his minutes to impress but putting the blame on him makes no sense.

Did Fred go and play right wing then? Or did Bruno move to right wing, eriksen move into the no 10 role and Fred drop into the deeper left sided role ? The role that was being occupied by Eriksen before that sub.

We were under the Cosh sure but we were still threatening with fast transitions through the middle, as soon Fred come into the mix all we could do was go long and we just ended up getting penned ln compleatly.

Im not putting the blame on Fred, but with the mcfred combo you basically lose the ability to play through midfield at all because neither of them are good enough on the ball under pressure.

 

[Zippycup]

Honestly Iqbal looked more ready to handle the responsibility of playing for Man Utd in pre-season than McTominay does right now. He at least knows how to take care of the football.

I'm not saying it's an ideal scenario but it's no less ideal than McTominay having to take those minutes. We already know what McTominay's about now, and the answer is not much. Every time he's stepped onto the pitch recently it has handed momentum to the opposition team. The only game I would trust McTominay to start right now is the cup game against Reading, and I wouldn't feel any less comfortable chucking one of Iqbal or Mainoo in there.

Pre season can be very deceiving. How many times did we see Pereira turn into Pirlo during preseason games

I think both players mentioned will come good, but if Garmacho is being slowly introduced, then there's no way ten Hag will throw either of those two into the deep end. And rightly so.
McTominay isn't a bad player. He had a poor game yesterday though. I'll give you that

 

[Zippycup]

Scott is almost 28

He's just turned 26.