Like Carrick was.
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Like Carrick was.
Man Carrick would be huge for our team if we had him.
I just don't get how our midfield continues to be neglected.
Can this myth that running around is doing diligent defensive work fecking die? Alan Smith didnt make it as a DM despite running around.
Yea, assuming pogba will be sold at some stage, probably next year, we need at least two MFs. Then maybe a 10 if Gomes does not make the cut.
After a promising preseason, he failed to play well those 1st two games and looked the same as his 1st year in the team.
The speed and intensity is very different in pre-season. As Mourinho famously said once, ‘even my pass is amazing when there is no pressure’.
Honest player and is Ok, but you know there's an upgrade out there....
You don't offer players 100 games at Manchester United to assess whether you are good enough at this level or not.
There always are. There probably was for Fletcher and O'Shea as well.
It's the team that counts not the individuals. McTominay has had to step up to senior football during a time where our midfield has been at its weakest (probably) ever. Despite this fact he has managed to do well, let's evaluate whether he is good enough or not when we sign a couple of mids.
Had to listen to fans all summer talk about this guy like his ready to lead our midfield. Captain Mctominay people were saying. Good prospect for the future & current rotational player. No where near ready to be our starting Midfielder so soon.
Exactly this and there's nothing wrong with that. It's criminal we didn't buy another midfielder in the summer.
Not so sure for Fletcher before he became sick. His style and quality that was improving and maturing was a very great fit for United at that time, in addition to his attitude. So not sure I agree with your stance on Fletch.
He's a step up from Matic that's for sure
His level isn't really where we need him to be, even for just a stable option with nothing spectacular expected from him.
Quite a bad game from him but I hope he plays better and improves because the level he showed in this game was unacceptable. He has a very important role as a 2 in a pivot. With Pogba already losing possession quite a bit though a bit undertandable in comparison because he's our creative player in the team he tries to push forward or try high risk passes, McTomminay with the task to simply keep things simple should be losing the ball sloppily like he showed in today's game.
I hope he improves his game and especially his concentration as well.
Quite a bad game from him but I hope he plays better and improves because the level he showed in this game was unacceptable. He has a very important role as a 2 in a pivot. With Pogba already losing possession quite a bit though a bit undertandable in comparison because he's our creative player in the team he tries to push forward or try high risk passes, McTomminay with the task to simply keep things simple should be losing the ball sloppily like he showed in today's game.
I hope he improves his game and especially his concentration as well.
If he's the man to partner with Pogba, we'll have to be patient because he's got loads to learn and improve. You can go only as fast as your weakest links and United unfortunately have 3 weak links (CM, CAM/SS, RW/RF).
When Pogba is closely marked or pushes up when United are in possession, McTominay or the other CM has to be able to pass a little bit and have composure. I like his attitude, effort and combative nature in the middle of the park, but need quality on the ball for United.
When Pogba is closely marked or pushes up when United are in possession, McTominay or the other CM has to be able to pass a little bit and have composure. I like his attitude, effort and combative nature in the middle of the park, but need quality on the ball for United.
He's combative, and I like that but at the moment he's too wasteful in possession. Hopefully he'll grow into the role but these two games have been a bit of a mixed bag. Eventually i'd like to see him in a 3 man midfield where it's not all on his shoulders.
It’s especially stupid given what Pogba contributes in attack. You don’t see people mentioning him doing the work for 2 going forward, it’s like people don’t seem to understand that midfielders are supposed to support both attack and defence.
He has the easist job in the team. Zero attacking expectations and zero pressure to have great game because he is a young player. All he has to do is sit and pass to nearest player. Anything go wrong its pogba who will get blame.
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He's a squad player, the player you use in the weekend home game against Brighton when you have a big CL game in midweek and want to rest your starting CM's. He got caught out positionally and on the ball tonight and he doesn't do a whole lot with it when he has it, I like him fine as a workhorse #8 but he's not good enough to start and he's struggling next to Pogba as he lacks the nous of a proper holding player, like I say he's a #8, the simple fact is though that he has to start as Fred is erratic and Matic is like the Titanic....after it sunk.
Carrick was hugely deferential to Scholes for his first 3 years here, Carrick wasn't 12/13 vintage that we all remember for a long time after coming to us.
I am not saying McTominay will be that but he has to be afforded that same amount of time to grow.
Needs to improve his decision making. He will be a carrick type player in that it will take him time to work his way into the season, but he will get there. I think Pogba has been sat beside him to work on his decision making. You can see the communication between the two of them.
No he doesn’t. He needs to earn that time. Otherwise any decent academy player we shipped out should say ‘give me 100 games in the first team first at least!’. The more he plays like tonight, the less games he should be afforded, is typically how it works for a young player who the jury is still out on.
Mourinho liked him because he was the master of the sidewards pass.
There are no comparisons to Carrick. Reason why Carrick was criticised when he got here was because he wasn’t Keane or Scholes. But he was a very good passer in his own right for Spurs and West Ham.
If he keeps passing sidewards he’d be shown the door like Cleverley was.
There are no comparisons to Carrick. Reason why Carrick was criticised when he got here was because he wasn’t Keane or Scholes. But he was a very good passer in his own right for Spurs and West Ham.
If he keeps passing sidewards he’d be shown the door like Cleverley was.
Give the ball away too many times again with sloppy passing. Hasn't show any sort of creativity with his passing either.
I think Mourinho also drooled over his height
Incredibly overrated by our own fans. He'll struggle to make the bench at most other top teams but it's looking like he'll be a regular starter this season.
Watching the game now, you guys are being a little harsh.
His playmaking ability was sloppy at best today. I like his physicality and some of his decisions. Thats about it.
He gets caught out a lot. Not nearly the finished product. Not exactly creative either. Matic for all his faults is defo a more talented footballer but just doesn’t fit our side due to his lack of pace.
When Pogba leaves we are in a complete mess in midfield! I really hope we sign at least one in January.
He gets caught out a lot. Not nearly the finished product. Not exactly creative either. Matic for all his faults is defo a more talented footballer but just doesn’t fit our side due to his lack of pace.
When Pogba leaves we are in a complete mess in midfield! I really hope we sign at least one in January.
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50 out of McTominay's 72 passes were forward.
52 out of Pogba's 95 passes were forward.
If anything, McTominay was the midfielders driving us forward.
Short pass to Shaw when he’s behind him counts as a forward pass hence why your stats are useless. How many key passes did he play?
Also why bring Pogba into this? We in the McTominay thread discussing his performances.
He was okay, he done his job for the most part. Our main problem is creativity, hard to be critical of him when he isn't expected to provide this. He has been thrown in really.
Not his fault the board never reinforced our midfield properly with the departures of Fellaini & Herrera, let alone the decline of Matic. That's 3 experienced professionals not replaced properly in the same year. It's sheer negligence. The blame is at their feet, not McTominay's.
Not his fault the board never reinforced our midfield properly with the departures of Fellaini & Herrera, let alone the decline of Matic. That's 3 experienced professionals not replaced properly in the same year. It's sheer negligence. The blame is at their feet, not McTominay's.
Because Pogba is the only other player in a similar role (though more attacking). He's the only direct comparison that makes sense. In the same vein, Shaw would be compared to AWB, Maguire would be compared to Lindelof, etc.
McTominay played too deep to be making key passes.
In any case, your point wasn't about key passes. It was about forward passes.
You're reading the game wrong if you believe McTominay makes more sidewards passes than normal (as the comparison to his midfield partner shows), or if you believe that's the main feature of his game (as his personal stats show).
You just posting more pointless stats. When I’m talking forward passes I’m talking more passes with risk or passes that are actually going to penetrate the opposition defence. He didn’t do any of that today. Passing to Shaw when McTominay is behind him counts as a forward pass by the way. Hence why your stats are pointless.
He showed some signs of it in preseason. But in the two league games he’s gone back to playing it safe.
Unusual period today where his head was completely lost in the game. Lost his pass and lost his sense of awareness. Brushed it off and carried pogba well again today
A little press in the second half and his brain couldn't process quick enough. Dont want to criticize him too much but this is the second game where he loses control when we desperately need him to dictate. Fred needs to come back and perform quickly.
He wasn't terrible. But he had a poor game. It's just that it highlights something he's not at fault for, which is our negligence in having a midfield that hasn't got even the remotest ambition. We are gambling on staying clear of injuries, Pogba being up for it consistently and McTominay improving rapidly.
I'm not sure it's the best way for him to develop, to be the default starting option due to criminal lack of depth and quality. That's a lot of pressure.
So now everyone is on this kid's arse. I guess you can't blame Matic anymore so now McTominay all of a sudden is trash.
I'll tell you what's trash - Our possession game and overall midfield chemistry when we are losing or when game is at draw. We don't have patience and creativity in our possession game and that's why McTominay and Matic look like sh1t out there most of the time.
I'll tell you what's trash - Our possession game and overall midfield chemistry when we are losing or when game is at draw. We don't have patience and creativity in our possession game and that's why McTominay and Matic look like sh1t out there most of the time.
I completely disagree.
As I said in another thread:
Both games Pogba's had to carry the midfield as McTominay, Pereira and Lingard offer nothing in possession.
Also, as I've said before about how bad he is under pressure; just like in preseason as the deepest midfielder, he failed to shield the ball and almost cost us a goal. Thankfully the defence got back into shape well
First it is Scott. Next it will be the forwards. The internet fanbase are cowards.
I've actually defended Matic for the most part.
Defensively, I think he's a liability now, but on the ball I still think he's good. Decent passing, can dribble, is our only CM who can consistently shield the ball.
On the other hand with McTominay, he's alright defensively but a ghost when we have the ball. I said at the time people were overrating his preseason performances, but he did show some stuff on the ball which we're yet to see this season.
Hopefully it's just a confidence thing because we need him playing like he did in preseason as Pogba can't be expected to do everything when we have the ball in midfield.
Forward passes aren't a good stat without context. When people say a player has more ability on the ball it means they're able to bypass defensive lines through passing. This allows attackers to be in a more dangerous position to do their work. Scholes and Pogba can change fields with their long passes to the winger. It also means that the player can receive the ball under pressure and dissuade the opposition from pressing. McTominay obviously doesn't do this. Pogba and Frenkie De Jong can dribble with the ball which can also beat a press or advance the play.
His best pass is probably at 2:56. He usually takes the safe option or needs a very clear lane to attempt a progressive pass. At 2:56 there are 2 defenders potentially blocking his way and he still gets the ball to Lingard. That's why I felt that was his most impressive pass.
I don't think any of us are asking him to just start trying risky passes every second. We're just saying that compared to a player with more ability, he won't be as good at transitioning the side to a more dangerous position unless given a direct path. Similarly, you also won't expect Scott to start doing 1 touch passing under pressure to escape pressure and probe the opposition's defensive blocks. Scholes was really good at this.
I would still rather have McTominay than Matic even if Matic is better on the ball. And I'm not all that upset at McTominay. I know what he is and I'm not expecting anything more. That doesn't mean that when a discussion comes up on what we're missing from the midfield, I'm not going to bring up his limitations. We don't have that many options in midfield and he should start for the time being.
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