[MadDogg]

I'd like to see our % possession with him in the team and without him. I feel the game largely passes by him and our midfield whenever he is on the pitch. He is definitely not as assertive as the likes of Pogba, Herrera, Matic, Fred, Mata and even Fellaini, and he struggles to get on the ball compared to the others. He does show sporadic bits of quality at times, but more often than not, he's relatively invisible and chasing shadows in midfield.

Throughout most of the time McTominay's been in the first team, I would agree with you.

However he showed a massive improvement in the last few months of last season, and he carried that through into this preseason. He was getting on the ball more often, using it far better, and showing a good amount of vision to pick the right passes both through the middle of the pitch and to swing it out wide. I didn't particularly rate him until that period, but he showed enough there that he really got me interested in what he could become. He's now had two games (Chelsea and AC Milan) where he was a bit iffy for the first 45-60 minutes before coming home strongly, but hopefully that is just a blip on the radar and he gets back to how he's been for most of the last 6 months.

 

[Rozay]

I know you do. It was just a bait. I dont really think you have it in you to change opinion based on out prior discussion about McTominay.

I also think you underestimate the importance of mentality; attitude, determenation and to some degree brains. This is what seperates McTominay from Hamilton, Pearson etc. I think it usually is at the highest level. Whether it is at Tour de France, Harvard or at the management of Google. And very few have it.

All players who make it to Man Utds U18 wants to make it. Most of them have a great attitude and desire. But not all of them are able to train and play with the same focus and desire every minute, every day, every month and every year. And at the end, that makes a huge difference.

This is why De Laet, Chadwick, Gibson, Cleverley or a bunch of other talents Ferguson gave more than enough chances (and probably even too many) did not manage to get a similar carrier to Butt, the Neville brothers, O’Shea or similar. Not because they did not have the same talent. Because, as we agree, it was not that special for either of these players.

When you come to think of it, players like Cleverley and Gibson were barely up against competition when they broke through. We had so few midfielders Ferguson used Fabio and O’Shea at times and even brought back Scholes from retirement. McTominay where up against several expensive midfielders. Experienced managers decided to let go of some of the talents you decided would have done «aswell» or even better. Even Mourinho believed in him! I’m sure you are good at rationalizing why in a manner ensuring that you dont have to admit to yourself you were wrong.

Of course, some players have both. Both determenation and world class talent. These are the once that ends up as world class.

People overestimate talent and ability, and get confused when a player they saw with less (or same) talent/ability as another kid make it.

I’m not ‘admitting I was wrong’ because I don’t think Scott McTominay is a very good player. There are enough past and present examples of those for me to easily conclude that Scott McTominay isn’t one.

And of the players you have mentioned that have been let go in the past, not sure what it proves. It would be a valid comparison if they spent all their time in the first team putting in terrible performances, while Scott spent his putting in amazing ones. However, neither are true. McTominay has had some good games of course, and also had his share of rubbish ones since he’s been in the squad. Cleverley has good and bad games too, as did the others. Which is my point, they were not able to get away with it. Scott thus far has. His story isn’t concluded yet anyway, so a bit early.

I’m capable of changing my mind if I see something different. It shouldn’t offend people so much that I don’t think Scott McTominay is a great player. Stick your head outside the caf and you will find it’s not a massively unique view.

 

[andersj]

I’m not ‘admitting I was wrong’ because I don’t think Scott McTominay is a very good player. There are enough past and present examples of those for me to easily conclude that Scott McTominay isn’t one.

And of the players you have mentioned that have been let go in the past, not sure what it proves. It would be a valid comparison if they spent all their time in the first team putting in terrible performances, while Scott spent his putting in amazing ones. However, neither are true. McTominay has had some good games of course, and also had his share of rubbish ones since he’s been in the squad. Cleverley has good and bad games too, as did the others. Which is my point, they were not able to get away with it. Scott thus far has. His story isn’t concluded yet anyway, so a bit early.

I’m capable of changing my mind if I see something different. It shouldn’t offend people so much that I don’t think Scott McTominay is a great player. Stick your head outside the caf and you will find it’s not a massively unique view.

I’m not saying he is a great player. I’m saying there is a difference between players like Neville, Butt, O’Shea and probably McTominay and players like Hamilton, Pearson, Rothwell etc. Even if you did not see or understand this due to small difference in ability at a young age. And I’m saying that it is not just due to «chance» that McTominay is here while Hamilton, Pearson and Rothwell is not.

 

[Rozay]

I’m not saying he is a great player. I’m saying there is a difference between players like Neville, Butt, O’Shea and probably McTominay and players like Hamilton, Pearson, Rothwell etc. Even if you did not see or understand this due to small difference in ability at a young age. And I’m saying that it is not just due to «chance» that McTominay is here while Hamilton, Pearson and Rothwell is not.

Why do you think he’s been given the chance he’s been given then? After all, the consensus over the last 6 months is that he’s just started to show something. So before that, why was he taken from the academy and played and played? His own defenders were saying he was being played as a ‘pawn’ by Jose to ‘prove a point’ (nothing about him being a talented young player), and ‘it’s not his fault he’s being picked’.

You think Rothwell could not have ‘started to mature’ if he was played for two years in the first team squad, while many people wondered what the hell he was doing there? He’s a professional footballer after all, not a fan from the crowd.

 

[zenith]

Mctominay is awesome but I feel his best role is as a box to box midfielder and he'll need matic alongside him for some defensive protection in a lot of the games.

 

[MadDogg]

Why do you think he’s been given the chance he’s been given then? After all, the consensus over the last 6 months is that he’s just started to show something. So before that, why was he taken from the academy and played and played? His own defenders were saying he was being played as a ‘pawn’ by Jose to ‘prove a point’ (nothing about him being a talented young player), and ‘it’s not his fault he’s being picked’.

You think Rothwell could not have ‘started to mature’ if he was played for two years in the first team squad, while many people wondered what the hell he was doing there? He’s a professional footballer after all, not a fan from the crowd.

McTominay always performed well against the top clubs. It's been his performances against the lower teams where we expect to dominate that improved massively over the last 6 months.

The comments of him being used to prove a point were really only based on the couple of games where he was played in the defence ahead of the actual defenders we had on the bench.

 

[worldinmotion66]

Mctominay is awesome but I feel his best role is as a box to box midfielder and he'll need matic alongside him for some defensive protection in a lot of the games.

His best position for us is to anchor the midfield and use his athleticism to put out fires where needed, we just don't have anyone better for the role right now. I'd like to see Garner get some game time but I just don't see Matic being frozen out yet despite his huge decline. I think Matic will play at the expense of McTominay rather than alongside him.

 

[zenith]

His best position for us is to anchor the midfield and use his athleticism to put out fires where needed, we just don't have anyone better for the role right now. I'd like to see Garner get some game time but I just don't see Matic being frozen out yet despite his huge decline. I think Matic will play at the expense of McTominay rather than alongside him.

I'm hoping see matic and mctominay play alongside each other at least a few times mainly because mctominay seems increasingly comfortable in passing between the lines these days and may be able to make a more significant contribution in defense with an anchor alongside him

 

[Thiagoal]

Prone to a few mistakes , but improving the more games he gets. Still some gaping holes in midfield and need a deep lying playmaker. We will get caught out here with better teams.

Let’s be honest, there’s only Liverpool, Spurs and City that are better than Chelsea in the league so if we can demolish the rest like we did yesterday it’ll be a great season

 

[Carl S Bridge]

Because I see him developing his distrubution and starting to change the tempo of play. If he keeps improving this facet as he is displaying clearly, and also his defensive reading of the game then I feel we will have very mature well rounded midfielder in 2-3 seasons more in the Carrick mould. At 22 he has a high ceiling.

Actually, I don't see anything style-wise in his game that reminds me of Fletcher. I actually think he will prove to be a much more complete football.

II see nothing of Carrick in Mctominay, he hasn't displayed any of Carrick's vision, first touch, passing, technical ability or composure. He has, however, showed that he's resilient, got a good motor, works hard and can pass. Like Fletcher.

I think you're doing Fletcher a disservice there. He was a very good footballer and an integral part of Manchester United's squad before his illness. Fergie tried giving him a PL debut at 15. If Mctominay goes on to have a career as good as his he will be very happy

 

[RooneyLegend]

Will not end up better than the Jack Corks of this world yet people seem to think its a good idea to keep starting him. Its going to end in tears. Lets give Garner some games and hope for the best. We seem to be taking this academy thing a bit far.

 

[worldinmotion66]

I'm hoping see matic and mctominay play alongside each other at least a few times mainly because mctominay seems increasingly comfortable in passing between the lines these days and may be able to make a more significant contribution in defense with an anchor alongside him

I agree that McTominay is at his best when he can play box to box, but unfortunately our limited midfield options and the lack in discipline of both Pogba and Fred would suggest that Scott will play the majority of games as the more disciplined midfielder. I'd personally rather not see much of Matic if it can be helped.

 

[Red14Devil9]

I have a feeling that McTominay is going to be an important part of United team this season.

 

[andersj]

Why do you think he’s been given the chance he’s been given then? After all, the consensus over the last 6 months is that he’s just started to show something. So before that, why was he taken from the academy and played and played? His own defenders were saying he was being played as a ‘pawn’ by Jose to ‘prove a point’ (nothing about him being a talented young player), and ‘it’s not his fault he’s being picked’.

You think Rothwell could not have ‘started to mature’ if he was played for two years in the first team squad, while many people wondered what the hell he was doing there? He’s a professional footballer after all, not a fan from the crowd.

How is it relevant that people on the RedCafe said something silly about McTominay? And to your information, I have defended McTominay for more than 6 months and I never said Jose picked to prove a point or defended him by saying it was not his fault (although it really is a fair point considering some of the unfair comments in here at the time).

So just to clarify, you question is;

- Why did Joyce and Ferguson decide to hand him a professional contract despite him barely playing after several years of injury?
- Why did Louis van Gaal and Ryan Giggs promote him to train regularly with the first team?
- Why did Mourinho promote him permanently to the first team?
- And how on earth did he convince Solskjaer, Phelan and Carrick to get more and more involved with the first team (after OGS initially left him out)?

I’m sure you have rationalized a few answers on these questions yourself. You will probably keep believing in these answers no matter what.

Regarding Rothwell I really liked him for the U18 and the U23. From my own experience, it is not always the best or most impressive youngsters at a lower level who makes the best impression/effort at a senior level. Despite being eager to impress and having a good attitude some player with talent can’t keep up. On a training pitch, it is not as random as you think. You can see a difference in performance and maturity in how they approach an excercise or a drill.

 

[Isotope]

Rashford played in attacking midfield too, so you shouldn't expect them to get on the ball as much as the central midfielders. They weren't very good in all fairness and should get on the ball more - Pereira especially was poor, but Pogba and McTominay didn't help their case with their inability to keep the ball and advance play.

Rashford was obviously a forward, with main job on the final third. I'm not sure on how you bundle Rashford with Lingard and Pereira main duty as equal.

 

[Red_toad]

Why do you think he’s been given the chance he’s been given then? After all, the consensus over the last 6 months is that he’s just started to show something. So before that, why was he taken from the academy and played and played? His own defenders were saying he was being played as a ‘pawn’ by Jose to ‘prove a point’ (nothing about him being a talented young player), and ‘it’s not his fault he’s being picked’.

You think Rothwell could not have ‘started to mature’ if he was played for two years in the first team squad, while many people wondered what the hell he was doing there? He’s a professional footballer after all, not a fan from the crowd.

Isn’t it obvious he was given chances as the Managers he played under saw something a lot of Caf posters didn’t? Fans generally don’t have great insight into the game, they blow hot and cold on players, or carry on silly vendettas against certain players.
His attitude in training and how he conducted himself must have made him a first team contender. Thanks to Jose we now have a very good free addition to the squad. Very happy he got his chances and lad is developing nicely.

 

[haram]

Will not end up better than the Jack Corks of this world yet people seem to think its a good idea to keep starting him. Its going to end in tears. Lets give Garner some games and hope for the best. We seem to be taking this academy thing a bit far.

Just stop.

 

[Enfant terrible]

"We go again."
Feck it, boy, you looked good from day one. Keep those feet on the ground and you will have your place in history

 

[100]

Still don't think he's good enough on the ball but he is the definition of an absolute unit, and will be just as good as any flavour of the month 'destroyer' that people want.

 

[worldinmotion66]

A lot of our fans seem to judge a player on their last game, you only have to look at the number of people commenting in the Longstaff thread this weekend to realise how fickle our fan base is. On top of that, people seem to have a clearly defined idea that a player is either awesome or rubbish, and nothing in between.

It's great to have an opinion but it's more important to take an objective view on player development. McTominay has risen in the pecking order at the club, in part due to the regression of Matic and lack of transfer activity, but mostly because he is improving with every game. Perhaps he's not glamorous enough for some supporters but we have a very solid pro that seems hugely unappreciated at the moment. He'll be a key player if we want to play a pressing game his season.

 

[Drainy]

can't underestimate the impact that big dick energy has

 

[Mcking]

Rashford was obviously a forward, with main job on the final third. I'm not sure on how you bundle Rashford with Lingard and Pereira main duty as equal.

We played 4231, and Lingard operated closer to Martial than McTominay. What I'm saying in essence is that you shouldn't compare his numbers to that of the centre midfielders as it would be unfair to the attacking midfielders who player further up the pitch. I agree that Pereira and Lingard didn't get on the ball enough though.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He hid for sixty minutes yesterday. It’s my biggest problem with him. If he’s to start regularly in this team then he needs to seek the ball and actually look to dictate the game. I’m not expecting Scholes, or even Carrick, but United midfielders do not hide behind the opposition forwards and pretend to want the ball.

It’s confidence, I hope. Because after we went a few up he began to get more of the ball and look like a real midfielder.

This is my biggest problem with him.

He doesn't seek the ball out. He doesn't make himself available for passes often.

 

[jesperjaap]

Only one game in so too early to really judge. I do think there is a lot that needs working on and the game to me showed we still have holes. We have sorted the defence out well and that possibly paid dividends with the luck of the woodwork already.

But I do think CHelsea played well and even so, we didnt look well drilled and a little bit lost defensively in all honesty in front of the back four. I dont see Pogba as right in the double pivot and neither do I Mctominay, still think both would be better in front of an anchorman....only we dont actually have one, only fadign Matic.

For me McTominay looks best in big games breaking up play in the middle of the park, not defending just in front of his box just as Pogba looks better breaking from the middle of the park not dictating the ball out from the back in our own third of the pirch and though I like Pereirra, just not sure he has developed enough or has the arrogance almost to play the number 10 role. I still see trounble with our attack, but the difference there is we have lots of options, in midfield we have very few.

Even from the first game I have seen enough from our defence to see they will bring extra points for us this season from not conceding goals we may have before, but are they protected enough from our midfield and does our midfield offer enough in its formation moving forward either? I ma not so sure, think Mourinho was right in that we can be dangerous in transitions with our pace, but I am not sure we will be cutting enough or fluid enough building from the back this season and McTominay though improved and very useful in certain scenarios I think sadly could be part of that problem

 

[JJ12]

Will not end up better than the Jack Corks of this world yet people seem to think its a good idea to keep starting him. Its going to end in tears. Lets give Garner some games and hope for the best. We seem to be taking this academy thing a bit far.

 

[friendlytramp]

The way he celebrated with Dan James. Proper united player

 

[RooneyLegend]

Who do you think would be in the market if we were to see him?

 

[Isotope]

We played 4231, and Lingard operated closer to Martial than McTominay. What I'm saying in essence is that you shouldn't compare his numbers to that of the centre midfielders as it would be unfair to the attacking midfielders who player further up the pitch. I agree that Pereira and Lingard didn't get on the ball enough though.

Yeh. Sorry I worded it poorly. I'm not absolving the fact that Pogba and McTom had a bit of nightmare retaining the ball. I think one poster mentioned that Lingard and Pereira seemed lost on what they should do, and ended up chasing the ball all the time instead of providing passing options.

But maybe that's their role. Just to put pressure on opponent by chasing the ball relentlessly.

 

[Raven]

He has a good understanding. You cannot drop into Premier League football at central midfield without it. You will not find many cases of players coming out of academies and straight into CM because it is difficult and most players are not mature enough.

Yep, Jose definitely doesn't put faith in kids who have no idea what they're doing.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Actually think he's more Carrick than Fletcher.

 

[Yagami]

Offered nothing on the ball, was okay off it despite almost costing us a goal.

It's like @Dante said during preseason. During said preseason, he was playing passes he never plays in proper games. Hopefully he starts to add them to his game soon because we can't rely on Pogba for everything in possession.

 

[BluesJr]

can't underestimate the impact that big dick energy has

This is absolutely true. Personality goes a long way in the game. Leader potential.

 

[BluesJr]

Who do you think would be in the market if we were to see him?

More teams than you think.

 

[Man-P]

We are in a generation where fans will always overanalyse instead of understanding the game very well. McTominay is a reliable player and you just have to love his simple but effective style of play. Get rid of the stereotypical hypothesis of thinking a good player is bought at a hiked price. That is why a team comprising McTominay, Lingard and Pereira won us a match against a team with former Real Madrid star Kovacic, Pulisic, former Barcelona player Pedro and former Napoli midfield star Jorginho

 

[Man-P]

We are in a generation where fans will always overanalyse instead of understanding the game very well. McTominay is a reliable player and you just have to love his simple but effective style of play. Get rid of the stereotypical hypothesis of thinking a good player is bought at a hiked price. That is why a team comprising McTominay, Lingard and Pereira won us a match against a team with former Real Madrid star Kovacic, Pulisic, former Barcelona player Pedro and former Napoli midfield star Jorginho

 

[WR10]

Glad that his game against Chelsea has been rated as 'below average' and he still put in a performance of that quality.

This lad will be the core to our midfield for the next decade at least. Brilliant.

 

[jem]

The way he celebrated with Dan James. Proper united player

Yeah that was incredible. I love McTominay!

 

[KennyBurner]

Glad that his game against Chelsea has been rated as 'below average' and he still put in a performance of that quality.

This lad will be the core to our midfield for the next decade at least. Brilliant.

Performance of what quality? Do you guys watch football through the radio? Him and Pogba both had an awful game. Forget the assists, they both gave the ball away numerous times as midfielders sitting deep. Pogba was the greater offender but he too lost it way too many times. Not talking about 2 or 3 times but both in double digits. Of course i dont think we should be too hard on him because we won 4-0 and football is a team sport but please try and not call that performance 'quality'. Lets just look forward to better performances from him as the season goes.

 

[RC89]

I think some are being a bit harsh on him. He's surprisingly looked better when he's gone on to play closer to an 8 than a 6 but right now we need him to sit back more given our weak midfield and it limits his game.

Not saying he's a worldie or anything close but when he's been allowed to get forward a bit more he's looked promising.

 

[Mcking]

Who do you think would be in the market if we were to see him?

He was linked with one Scottish club the other time, but I can't remember which club.