[baskinginthesun]

We don't, that doesn't mean we should pretend McTominay is good enough though, does it?

So we are going to invest time, appearances and money to train a player in the hope he can become a backup player?

When we've asked what his outstanding qualities are that makes him a promising player all we hear is he's got good positional awareness and he takes his knocks well. They aren't outstanding qualities, they are bare essentials. If he was playing for Brighton right now no one here would bat an eyelid.

Why not? We’ve seen both Pogba and Matic this season get caught out of position this season and give up goals. So for him to maintain the concentration through an entire match and not get caught says something about him.

This is his first season playing in the first team, experience is good for him and I think next season we should hopefully see a bit more to his game.

 

[ivaldo]

Pogba, Matic, Fellaini, Herrera, Carrick, McTominay.

Are you saying we should sign someone to be 6th, 5th choice?

Carrick and most likely Fellaini will be gone by the end of the season.

Are you saying our squad players don't need to be talented because they are squad players? Yes, we should sign someone or promote someone to be 5th choice, who actually has the potential to push or even displace those players abovr them.

 

[ivaldo]

Why not? We’ve seen both Pogba and Matic this season get caught out of position this season and give up goals. So for him to maintain the concentration through an entire match and not get caught says something about him.

This is his first season playing in the first team, experience is good for him and I think next season we should hopefully see a bit more to his game.

And we will see McTominay do the same thing. His positioning isnt amazing, its not carrickesque, and a player needs to do more than just having the knack of being in roughly the right place.

More of his game? What specifically have you seen from him that convinces you he's capable of making the vast improvements required in his game to be good enough? It's blind hope.

 

[ivaldo]

Nice to see youngsters getting support and not judged instantly.

It's like asking whether Barca would have signed Sergi Roberto if he played for other team? No as they had option to sign anyone, but since he came from academy everything changes.

Context is key, this "whether we would have signed if he played for other team" thing should stop. Maybe we wouldn't have signed Fletcher too but didn't stop him becoming very good player for us.

Right now he is option for us in midfield and Jose likes him and he used him some games. That's the only thing that matters, not whether we would have signed him or whether he will be class player for us in the future.

If player isn't good enough when he is 20-21, he will never be good enough. That logic, players should even stop training as there is no chance they will improve.

I'm a big advocate for youngsters being pushed through, but im going to sit here and pretend he's putting in performances worthy of the outlandish praise he's been getting on here. He did exist before Jose gave him game time you know? Prior to the start of his season he had amassed a grand total of 8 posts in his thread, half of which was saying he looks crap. He wasn't seen as a good prospect then, and he doesn't look like one now. Players like Gomes generate excitement from a young age because they have shown they have outstanding qualities to their game. These are the youngsters we should be talking about.

No it doesn't need to stop. It actually provides context. What needs to stop is the exaggerated praise of a player just because he's an academy player. They may not have signed him but he would have been rated. If SR played for Brighton he would be their best player, TM wouldn't.

What matters right now is if he is good enough or looks capable of being good enough to warrant the support he's getting on here. The answer is an emphatic no.

Great strawman you've built yourself there. I have not said he has to be good enough at 20-21. If you aren't even going to tackle the points made, then don't bother replying.

 

[haram]

Carrick and most likely Fellaini will be gone by the end of the season.

Are you saying our squad players don't need to be talented because they are squad players? Yes, we should sign someone or promote someone to be 5th choice, who actually has the potential to push or even displace those players abovr them.

We are going to sign at least 1 CM. Of course they need to be talented. What kind of player do we sign to be 5th/6th choice seriously? Teams dont do that, they just promote within. There isn't many options in the u23 side which is poor atm.

 

[roonster09]

I'm a big advocate for youngsters being pushed through, but im going to sit here and pretend he's putting in performances worthy of the outlandish praise he's been getting on here. He did exist before Jose gave him game time you know? Prior to the start of his season he had amassed a grand total of 8 posts in his thread. He wasn't seen as a good prospect then, and it doesn't look like one now. Players like Gomes generate excitement from a young age because they have shown they have outstanding qualities to their game. These are the youngsters we should be talking about.

No it doesn't need to stop. It actually provides context. They may not have signed him but he would have been rated. If SR played for Brighton he would be their best player, TM wouldn't.

Great strawman you've built yourself there. If you aren't even going to tackle the points made, then don't bother replying.

Generally yes but some players like Bojan was exceptional for youth teams but Kane was warming bench at lower leagues. Its not as if he is promoted as some star player, just a back up.

It's amazing you are annoyed because some player is getting praised on a forum.

Stawman? Says the guy with pathetic logic.

 

[ivaldo]

We are going to sign at least 1 CM. Of course they need to be talented. What kind of player do we sign to be 5th/6th choice seriously? Teams dont do that, they just promote within. There isn't many options in the u23 side which is poor atm.

Teams sign youngsters with talent who occupy the squad positions. Or they buy players better than what they have. You don't bring in players who aren't or will never be good enough just because they are cheap and from the academy. Thats ridiculous.

 

[Lawman]

I know opinions are hot just now with this kid but I’ve been quietly impressed with him and can see a real role for him here. Looks a real diamond hopefully this proves to be the case.

 

[ivaldo]

Generally yes but some players like Bojan was exceptional for youth teams but Kane was warming bench at lower leagues. Its not as if he is promoted as some star player, just a back up.

It's amazing you are annoyed because some player is getting praised on a forum.

Stawman? Says the guy with pathetic logic.

Yeah and when Kane started banging in goals on a regular basis in the Europa League he got his chance domestically. Even in the U21s Kane had a very impressive goal to game ratio. What has McTominay done to warrant starts? Wake me up when he does something more than just concentrate really, really well.

No more amazing than you welling up because someone dares to think he isn't good enough.

I said players need to show the outstanding qualities required to be good enough in the future. Not now, the future. You took from that I said players had to be good enough at 20-21. And I'm the one with the pathetic logic?

 

[haram]

Teams sign youngsters with talent who occupy the squad positions. Or they buy players better than what they have. You don't bring in players who aren't or will never be good enough just because they are cheap and from the academy. Thats ridiculous.

Please list me the 6th choice midfielders at our rivals?

It is only your opinion he wont or isn't good enough anyway

 

[roonster09]

Please list me the 6th choice midfielders at our rivals?

It is only your opinion he wont or isn't good enough anyway

Exactly. Also any young player with potential to rival Matic and Pogba won't be settling for 6th choice role, playing so less mins in a season.

This is like FM logic, sign all young players with potential even though they won't be content with the game time of 6th choice player.

 

[ivaldo]

Please list me the 6th choice midfielders at our rivals?

It is only your opinion he wont or isn't good enough anyway

Please demonstrate the equivalent player at those clubs getting the game time Mctominay is getting. And he isn't behind all those aforementioned players. He's started ahead of Carrick and Herrera when they were fit, and will be continue starting plenty of games for us.

 

[roonster09]

I know opinions are hot just now with this kid but I’ve been quietly impressed with him and can see a real role for him here. Looks a real diamond hopefully this proves to be the case.

He does his job and has physical presence. Till date he has done well enough whenever played, so he has Jose's trust which is most important.

 

[ivaldo]

Exactly. Also any young player with potential to rival Matic and Pogba won't be settling for 6th choice role, playing so less mins in a season.

This is like FM logic, sign all young players with potential even though they won't be content with the game time of 6th choice player.

Let's pretend he wasn't starting ahead of Carrick and Herrera when they were fit. Would ruin a perfectly good made up point, wouldn't it?

FM logic? Like you mean City spending 57m on Laporte? Despite already having 4 options, one of which is a circa 50m youngster.

All the young players with potential yeah that's what is being said. Christ on a bike, you just read whatever you like, don't you?

 

[haram]

Please demonstrate the equivalent player at those clubs getting the game time Mctominay is getting. And he isn't behind all those aforementioned players. He's started ahead of Carrick and Herrera when they were fit, and will be continue starting plenty of games for us.

We’ve won every game he’s started in if im correct? We’re pretty good if we can win with 10 men on the pitch. Also, we have had injuries and had to rotate so he got some games. Again, please list the 6th choice CM’s at our rivals? If they get injuries and have to rotate they will need these players.

Edit - AH! Apart from Bristol. We’re rubbish!

 

[roonster09]

Let's pretend he wasn't starting ahead of Carrick and Herrera when they were fit. Would ruin a perfectly good made up point, wouldn't it?

All the young players with potential yeah that's what is being said. Christ on a bike, you just read whatever you like, don't you?

So he started ahead of some players when they were fit, what a cnut.

No, I just can't believe what I'm reading, some guy "who wants young players to be prmoted" is annoyed because some academy guy is getting lot of praise.

Or is that because he has benched Herrera?

 

[ivaldo]

We’ve won every game he’s started in if im correct? We’re pretty good if we can win with 10 men on the pitch. Also, we have had injuries and had to rotate so he got some games. Again, please list the 6th choice CM’s at our rivals? If they get injuries and have to rotate they will need these players.

Edit - AH! Apart from Bristol. We’re rubbish!

And our performances have been roundly criticised.

We've never seen a team win a game with 10 men on the pitch before. Never happened.

Again, are we pretending he didn't start ahead of Carrick and Herrera, even Pogba, when they were fit?

 

[ivaldo]

So he started ahead of some players when they were fit, what a cnut.

No, I just can't believe what I'm reading, some guy "who wants young players to be prmoted" is annoyed because some academy guy is getting lot of praise.

Or is that because he has benched Herrera?

yeah that's what I said. So now I've shown you he isn't 6th choice we move on to me thinking he's a cnut. Your posts are a mess.

Yeah, it's incredible that as a United fan I want our players to be good enough for the side. Outrageous stuff!! I should be more like you and praise him yo high heavens because of his ability to concentrate really, really well!

 

[haram]

And our performances have been roundly criticised.

We've never seen a team win a game with 10 men on the pitch before. Never happened.

Again, are we pretending he didn't start ahead of Carrick and Herrera, even Pogba, when they were fit?

Carrick has been out for most of the season? He replaced Pogba for one game? Like I said, injuries and rotation?

Are you not going to list the 6th choice CM’s at our rivals?

 

[roonster09]

yeah that's what I said. So now I've shown you he isn't 6th choice we move on to me thinking he's a cnut. You're a mess mate!

Yeah, it's incredible that as a United fan I want our players to be good enough for the side. Outrageous stuff!! I should be more like you and praise him yo high heavens because of his ability to concentrate really, really well!

So he started few games ahead of Herrea means he is not 6th choice? And you are saying I'm a mess?

That logic

Check who has played how many mins, or 6th choice player should play only when everyone is injured?

 

[ivaldo]

Carrick has been out for most of the season? He replaced Pogba for one game? Like I said, injuries and rotation?

Are you not going to list the 6th choice CM’s at our rivals?

So now we've established he's going to be getting plenty of minutes, we can return to the original discussion about whether he's good enough? Because apparently, as a 6th choice option hell never play...

Will do when you list the equivalent players at those aforementioned clubs getting the minutes he is, ahead of established players.

 

[haram]

So now we've established he's going to be getting plenty of minutes, we can return to the original discussion about whether he's good enough? Because apparently, as a 6th choice option hell never play...

Will do when you list the equivalent players at those aforementioned clubs getting the minutes he is, ahead of established players.

He’s started 7 games mate. 2 in the league cup where squad players usually get games. Another against bloody league 2 Yeovil in the FA Cup.

You’re not going to list them then? Appears you know you’re wrong.

 

[ivaldo]

So he started few games ahead of Herrea means he is not 6th choice? And you are saying I'm a mess?

That logic

Check who has played how many mins, or 6th choice player should play only when everyone is injured?

Going from suggesting I think all players must be good enough at 21 to play for us to suggesting I just think he's a cnut. Looks pretty messy to me.

No they shouldn't, thats my point. I'm not the one who brought up this ridiculous notion that he's sixth choice. You don't have '6th choice' midfielders. You have squad options who provide different qualities to the side and the manager selects accordingly.

 

[ivaldo]

He’s started 7 games mate. 2 in the league cup where squad players usually get games. Another against bloody league 2 Yeovil in the FA Cup.

You’re not going to list them then? Appears you know you’re wrong.

No because 6th choice players don't exist! It's just some ranking system you've made up to justify your opinion. Players are different. They will be selected based on their different qualities. It's why Fergie used Park in some games and not others.

Now will you tell me of all these Mctominay equivalents playing for City and our other rivals? Nah didn't think so.

 

[haram]

No because 6th choice players don't exist! It's just some ranking system you've made up to justify your opinion. Players are different. They will be selected based on their different qualities. It's why Fergie used Park in some games and not others.

Now will you tell me of all these Mctominay equivalents playing for City and our other rivals? Nah didn't think so.

Ok, I’ll take your point on being sixth choice. He is down the pecking order though and hasn’t actually started that many games. You are over reacting.

 

[ivaldo]

Ok, I’ll take your point on being sixth choice. He is down the pecking order though and hasn’t actually started that many games. You are over reacting.

All I'm saying is he isn't good enough. I get that we've got injuries and he has to play more often than he should, but that doesn't mean he should be getting the praise that he is.

City spent £57m on another CB. They wanted to buy Sanchez to cover for a relatively short injury. I don't see why I should be content with a very limited player.

 

[haram]

All I'm saying is he isn't good enough. I get that we've got injuries and he has to play more often than he should, but that doesn't mean he should be getting the praise that he is.

Well I am not personally praising him that heavy. I just think he is an interesting player who the manager believes in and could develop into something.

 

[Hitchez]

Reminds me of Cleverely if I'm honest from what I've seen so far. And that's not really an insult. Cleverely is a pretty decent premier league player which is a good level to reach. But given the paucity of CM's we have he'll probably get a decent amount of game time next season as well.

 

[ivaldo]

Well I am not personally praising him that heavy. I just think he is an interesting player who the manager believes in and could develop into something.

Fair enough. I hope I'm wrong about him and he can get to Fletcher levels. Would be great to have another successful academy player.

 

[Ban]

Nah he'd still be shit.

He does the basics reasonably well and is getting massive praise for it. We are looking to compete with the very best in Europe. Putting faith into a player that isn't creative, isn't dynamic, doesn't read the game well enough to be a DM, and doesn't score goals doesn't sit well with me.

If putting faith in him means he'll be a squad option nothing bad there.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Reminds me of Cleverely if I'm honest from what I've seen so far. And that's not really an insult. Cleverely is a pretty decent premier league player which is a good level to reach. But given the paucity of CM's we have he'll probably get a decent amount of game time next season as well.

Yeah reminds me of cleverly as well, but with obvious physical advantages that he lacked. He'll do well here in A Darren fletcher sense. Not one of the main lights but a solid performer.

 

[Judas]

Don't think he's good enough, haven't been impressed with most of his performances, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise in the hope of looking smart in a few year in the off chance he comes good. Still time for him to get better, it's very early days for him, but I don't really see anything that makes me think he'll have a long and successful career here.

 

[Bwuk]

If it’s true he’s starting ahead of Pogba in what is now arguably the most important fixture of our season it’s a massive show of faith from Jose.

 

[prateik]

Fergie's orders

 

[cyberman]

What a story.
Jose has killed every argument about giving youth a chance with him.
Its a huge pick me up to everybody associated with our youth set-up regardless if we win or lose

 

[van der star]

Needs a big performance tonight to silence his detractors.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Fergie's orders

So was Moyes and look at how that ended ...

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Needs a big performance tonight to silence his detractors.

Yeah, he needs to run around a bit and pass the ball sideways with commitment and focus.

 

[el3mel]

Big night for his today. Hopefully he repays his manager's faith and does well.

 

[AndyJ1985]

He's ok for a young player, but frankly a club of our stature shouldn't be starting with a player of his level in the knockout stages of the CL.