SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

noodlehair said:
Just thought I'd post this as an example of the sheer hypocrasy of the current situation. This is a "guest blog" from someone who works in our homeless team:

We are doing a tough job working remotely dealing with homeless people and delivering the government’s agenda not to return rough people to the street, this has required an ever growing co-ordination between staff and stakeholders mostly all working remotely amidst scare resources. We all want to show that business is as usual. On my 9th working from home due to COVID-19, my boundaries between work and life have almost entirely disappeared. I am spending more hours per day on the job than before lockdown, peak email time has crept up every five minutes before the COVID-19 outbreak; impromptu meetings, regular skype conversations, teleconferences have made it nearly impossible to disconnect. Performance is high, an ever communication with staff has led the message not to get distracted because you are on your own, you’re meant to deliver on the targets set out; you know we will be watching closely those red flags. Talking about boundaries and working from home, I should not be a workaholic waking up to emails from early in the morning till past 9pm or even later to catch on deadlines at 10am, this never happens when we're in the office. It's almost as if working from home means work 24 hours. Working from home is perhaps going to be norm, I really want to get back to a 9-5 routine, often I feel overworked, and eager to get back to the office but the contours of the workday have changed, we are in the alternative workplace, we devote less time and energy to typical office routines and more to our customers.

To put this into context. There are currently over 100 builders in our building, pointlessly moving desks and furniture about...but apparently it is not safe for someone who's job is to help homeless people, to come in and do their job helping homeless people, even though unless they're talking utter shite, doing it from home clearly isn't working...the fact there's 4 poeple sat outside the building right now with their belongings unabe to see anyone who can help them suggests it's the former.

People need to start getting a fecking clue about where priorities should be and what risk is actually bigger.
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You keep talking about hypocrisy. You’ve mentioned nothing there that is in any way hypocritical.

Builders cannot work from home. That’s an impossibility. So they need to come in to work. Which helps takes the edge off the economic disaster that usually gets you all worked up. The construction industry employs a shit-load of people, directly and indirectly, so it needs to keep ticking over. For everyone’s sake.

People with different jobs - like the person who wrote that blog - CAN work from home. So they should. They might not be as effective at their job and they might not like it. But it’s still an option. So they should take that option. And each individual employee needs to be professional enough to make sure they get the work/life balance about right, in these changed circumstances. I get the impression that the vast majority of employers are being pretty reasonable (apart from one specific member of redcafe anyway).

Obviously, if there are elements of their job that require them to be physically present (like meeting with those rough sleepers who turn up at your office) then it’s up to the organisation you work for to make sure that happens. In a way that is as safe as possible for everyone involved. As far as I can work out, individual organisations have been given the flexibility to do this. I know that’s the situation in Ireland. I’d be amazed if the Uk is any different?

It’s up to each individual company/organisation to make this work. And if it isn’t working then complaints should be addressed to whoever is running that company/organisation, instead of ranting about the whole world being hypocritical. That makes no sense.
 
noodlehair said:
I wouldn't bother in this thread mate.

Too many people in here spouting opinions as if they are the voice of the working class, but who in reality have absolutely zero clue what's actually going on out there or how hard it is for a lot of people to simply survive at the moment.

People just presume because they are smart they know better. I've been helping out at my local food bank and with other aspects at work such as taking social care calls, helping deliver medication, etc. The one thing I've definitely learnt, is most people in this thread are clearly in a privelidged position currently and have next to no clue what is actually going on in the real world. Their opinion is worth a tiny fraction of someone half as smart as them out there driving a bus, helping deliver food or helping to get a school re-open safely, who are actually seeing the effect this is having on the people who's biggest problem isn't not being able to go to the pub, and who are actually trying to do something about it other than spout drivel about how no one should ever do anything again..
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And that just comes across as a load of whiney bollox. Some of the “smart people” who seem to wind you up are putting their lives at risk, every day, going in to work in hospitals riddled with the virus. Dealing with bereaved relatives, finding out about colleagues who have been killed. So I think it’s fair to say they have a pretty good idea what’s going on. Even though you obviously think you know best.

And that’s without even getting into the hundreds of taxi drivers, bus drivers, cleaners, supermarket workers and security guards who have been killed by this virus in the last few weeks while you’ve been making up false facts about how a recession will kill more people and lockdown needs to stop immediately. I think it’s fair to say their bereaved families would also have different opinion to you on how this crisis should be handled.
 
noodlehair said:
I wouldn't bother in this thread mate.

Too many people in here spouting opinions as if they are the voice of the working class, but who in reality have absolutely zero clue what's actually going on out there or how hard it is for a lot of people to simply survive at the moment.

People just presume because they are smart they know better. I've been helping out at my local food bank and with other aspects at work such as taking social care calls, helping deliver medication, etc. The one thing I've definitely learnt, is most people in this thread are clearly in a privelidged position currently and have next to no clue what is actually going on in the real world. Their opinion is worth a tiny fraction of someone half as smart as them out there driving a bus, helping deliver food or helping to get a school re-open safely, who are actually seeing the effect this is having on the people who's biggest problem isn't not being able to go to the pub, and who are actually trying to do something about it other than spout drivel about how no one should ever do anything again.

The amount of world wide epidemic experts in this thread is hilarious considering that even the actual experts would tell you they are not exactly experts.
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I think you've overstepped the mark there. No empathy whatsoever with poor old @finneh who's had to cancel his order for a new Tesla.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
And that just comes across as a load of whiney bollox. Some of the “smart people” who seem to wind you up are putting their lives at risk, every day, going in to work in hospitals riddled with the virus. Dealing with bereaved relatives, finding out about colleagues who have been killed. So I think it’s fair to say they have a pretty good idea what’s going on. Even though you obviously think you know best.

And that’s without even getting into the hundreds of taxi drivers, bus drivers, cleaners, supermarket workers and security guards who have been killed by this virus in the last few weeks while you’ve been making up false facts about how a recession will kill more people and lockdown needs to stop immediately. I think it’s fair to say their bereaved families would also have different opinion to you on how this crisis should be handled.
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Is it a false fact that a Massive global recession Will kill more people than Covid ever could? I’d like to see the stats on that as surely losing your job, possibly losing your home, your mental health suffering immensely for a large large proportion of the population is doing so much damage. Lockdown was necessary on the beginning to stop overwhelming the NHS, but they isn’t the case now & we should be thinking how quickly to get back to some semblance of normality
 
Rafaeldagold said:
We will have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future, until a vaccine is available so at what point do we have to get back to some semblance of normality?
We can’t stay away from others & friends & family indefinitely?

Business & the economy just wouldn’t cope & the economic impact will actually soon prove a greater toll on health than Covid.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘ just stay indoors & don’t go anywhere until the virus is gone- that’s not an option
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Well most shops will be reopening from start of June so unless schools really go back you will get busy shopping areas again very quickly (and of course it's just primary schools they want opening so that will act as magnet for teenagers to meet up in large groups).

Then in July you could well get some pubs opening in some form.

If numbers continue to decrease over next 2-3 weeks it's possible we could get a reasonably normal July and August. However you can split that into a normal-ish daytime and then an abnormal night time, think anyone wanting a decent night out is going to be waiting many months.

Then once October rolls in and the temperature drops that's when more problems will start I fear although that's still six months to come up with some form of effective treatment.
 
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arnie_ni said:
They have said 25 percent overall. They cant double count home tests.

But from the start until home tests were done, yes they were double counting.

Thats my under standing anyway.
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I think the assumption was that Patient A may have several tests during a hospital stay. That accounted for the difference.

I doubt anyone thought two tests at the same time was the reason.

It’s just another example of what cnuts they are. “Aha! We said 100,000 tests a day. Not people! I have bested you in a battle of wits!”

No. You’re lying scumbags that I’d gladly see dead.

That’s not overly dramatic either. If the entire Cabinet died tomorrow in a tragic Zoom related electrocution, I’d raise a glass. They are knowingly killing people and have been doing so for months.

feck the Conservative party, and anyone that voted for Boris.

[I shouldn’t have to say it. Of course there are great people that lean and vote right. But if you voted for that piece of shit and still defend it, you’re a corruptive voter, blocking this countries progress]

[Shouldn’t have to say this either : Corbyn was unelectable and has nothing to do with the above]

@arnie_ni - apologies that took a turn halfway through. Only the first bit is in response to your post.
 
redshaw said:
Stockholm at 7.3% antibodies as of end of April
https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/tester-73-procent-bar-pa-antikroppar-i-stockholm/

Virus really taking off in Brazil now breaking 1000 deaths per day and 20k dead.

Also heard and will try to confirm that one third of the deaths are under 60 in Brazil.
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Isnt london at around 17%
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...vid-19-in-london-one-in-20-across-uk-11992393
remind me again who was going for the heard immunity strategy

Latin America does look like its going to be the next area hit badly... so far africa seems to have avoided huge outbreaks thankfully though I do worry that they might be the next area
 


sun_tzu said:
Isnt london at around 17%
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...vid-19-in-london-one-in-20-across-uk-11992393
remind me again who was going for the heard immunity strategy

Latin America does look like its going to be the next area hit badly... so far africa seems to have avoided huge outbreaks thankfully though I do worry that they might be the next area
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Brazil might be the poster child of what happens when you try to embrace it, give it long enough it will smoulder and get a huge grip of the populace but some might see stopping the economy there would be worse.
 
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The Lancet's just published a multinational observation study on nearly 100 000 patients
https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

Found no evidence of benefit on use of hydroxychloroquine +/- macrolide with regards to inpatient outcomes. But did find increased risk of new arrythmias with their use.

I know that there is a trial going on for prophylactic use in healthcare workers started in Brighton and Oxford with aim to be expanded to 25 UK sites, hoping to test on 40,000 healthcare workers from Europe, Africa, Asia and South America. I wonder how the result from this will affect people's opinion on those enrolled on trial. I mean infections themselves can pre-dispose patients to arrythmias and I wonder if this drug combo might lower the threshold for that.

Am worried about another thing is lack of judicious antibiotics use and prescription in primary and secondary care now with covid with meropenem widely used in hospital (to treat suspected superadded bacterial infection) and because of fears of throat examinations antibiotics being given for tonsilitis without seeing if indicated.
If you think this is bad cant imagine living in a post-antibiotic world.
 
Rafaeldagold said:
Is it a false fact that a Massive global recession Will kill more people than Covid ever could? I’d like to see the stats on that as surely losing your job, possibly losing your home, your mental health suffering immensely for a large large proportion of the population is doing so much damage. Lockdown was necessary on the beginning to stop overwhelming the NHS, but they isn’t the case now & we should be thinking how quickly to get back to some semblance of normality
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The “stats on that” are the biggest recession in modern history. In the Great Depression of the 1930s, mortality increased. Paradoxically, the biggest decreases in peacetime mortality have historically been associated with the times of most prosperity (presumably because of industrial accidents, more motor traffic, more travel, more boozing etc)

And I totally agree we should be trying to get back to some semblance of normality. I think that’s the number one priority right now, in almost every country in the world. I’m actually struggling to work out what noodle’s point is at this stage. He just seems to need to have people to blame or lash out at for the shit show we’re all enduring because of the virus.

Thinking about it, there’s a similarity to his views on football. Where Manchester United only ever lost football matches because of staggering managerial incompetence.
 
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The BBC has a kind of photo tribute to people who've died, they are randomly showing 100 pics you can scroll through while reading a few lines about each person.

I looked through the first hundred last night - we all know that people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds have been harder-hit, and also people who are overweight, but seeing one pic after another of an overweight person or a non-white person is quite sobering.
 
Penna said:
The BBC has a kind of photo tribute to people who've died, they are randomly showing 100 pics you can scroll through while reading a few lines about each person.

I looked through the first hundred last night - we all know that people from black and ethnic minority backgrounds have been harder-hit, and also people who are overweight, but seeing one pic after another of an overweight person or a non-white person is quite sobering.
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Maybe this will kick the country into a bit of a healthier lifestyle, which it could definitely do with. The amount of overweight people is shocking.
 
golden_blunder said:
Got my oximeter today. 99%

the wife’s at 97% and she’s annoyed:smirk:
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I'm getting a consistent 95% and I'm fecking furious, considering I run or walk almost every day, and by walk I mean 15-20 miles, any terrain, lots of ascent. I know it's not the oximeter because the rest of the family is getting 97-99%. Mrs is 97% and she does feck-all. Grrr.
 
Dancfc said:
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This guy is actually starting to get on my tits. It's as though he's chosen a narrative and is only interested in facts that fit that narrative. Which is a terrible way for a scientist to behave.

To address what he's saying:

"Serology shows between 5 and 20% previously exposed"

Completely untrue. But he's obviously distorting the facts to fit his previous prediction of 50% positive with serology. There's not a single nationwide serological survey that's reached double digits. The vast majority are between 1 and 5% (with only the very worst hit countries reaching 5%) Individual cities in these countries have been as high as 19% (e.g. NYC) but that's beside the point when you're talking about population prevalence.

"We could have an immune passport based on T cells"

The reason we can't have an immune passport based on serology is the difficulty in getting a test that has the accuracy needed to be absolutely certain that it won't give a false positive. And he's now suggesting we could somehow create a test for a much more difficult/complicated target to identify that would be MORE accurate than the serological testing. Pull the other one, Prof.

"People with SARS/MERS might never get coronavirus"

Who gives a shit? That's an insignificantly tiny number of people. What would be quite cool would be if people who had previously been infected with the coronavirus that causes the common cold had some sort of partial immunity to SARSCOV2. Even if that was the case we would already be getting the benefits of this in the way the virus has spread around the world. And one thing we can say without a shadow of a doubt, is that the virus has had very little problem spreading around the world!

I'm all for a bit of positivity but your man is obviously getting a social media boner by being the cheerleader for all things positive about covid. He's loving live as the main man in that particular echo chamber. He needs to take a step back, read all the available science, and try to be a bit more balanced.

Rant over...
 
One Night Only said:
Maybe this will kick the country into a bit of a healthier lifestyle, which it could definitely do with. The amount of overweight people is shocking.
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Well, the fat folk can in almost all cases improve things for themselves, but there needs to be loads of thought put into how people from BAME heritages can be protected. I think vaccines should first be given to non-white people and the overweight (as well as healthcare workers, of course).
 
711 said:
I'm getting a consistent 95% and I'm fecking furious, considering I run or walk almost every day, and by walk I mean 15-20 miles, any terrain, lots of ascent. I know it's not the oximeter because the rest of the family is getting 97-99%. Mrs is 97% and she does feck-all. Grrr.
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Manly hands. Go with the manly hands defence.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This guy is actually starting to get on my tits. It's as though he's chosen a narrative and is only interested in facts that fit that narrative. Which is a terrible way for a scientist to behave.

To address what he's saying:

"Serology shows between 5 and 20% previously exposed"

Completely untrue. But he's obviously distorting the facts to fit his previous prediction of 50% positive with serology. There's not a single nationwide serological survey that's reached double digits. The vast majority are between 1 and 5% (with only the very worst hit countries reaching 5%) Individual cities in these countries have been as high as 19% (e.g. NYC) but that's beside the point when you're talking about population prevalence.

"We could have an immune passport based on T cells"

The reason we can't have an immune passport based on serology is the difficulty in getting a test that has the accuracy needed to be absolutely certain that it won't give a false positive. And he's now suggesting we could somehow create a test for a much more difficult/complicated target to identify that would be MORE accurate than the serological testing. Pull the other one, Prof.

"People with SARS/MERS might never get coronavirus"

Who gives a shit? That's an insignificantly tiny number of people. What would be quite cool would be if people who had previously been infected with the coronavirus that causes the common cold had some sort of partial immunity to SARSCOV2. Even if that was the case we would already be getting the benefits of this in the way the virus has spread around the world. And one thing we can say without a shadow of a doubt, is that the virus has had very little problem spreading around the world!

I'm all for a bit of positivity but your man is obviously getting a social media boner by being the cheerleader for all things positive about covid. He's loving live as the main man in that particular echo chamber. He needs to take a step back, read all the available science, and try to be a bit more balanced.

Rant over...
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Not just him saying it.



https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30610-3
 
711 said:
I'm getting a consistent 95% and I'm fecking furious, considering I run or walk almost every day, and by walk I mean 15-20 miles, any terrain, lots of ascent. I know it's not the oximeter because the rest of the family is getting 97-99%. Mrs is 97% and she does feck-all. Grrr.
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Proof that supporting United may damage your long term health. :lol:
 
Queuing for fecking KFC, McDonalds....just shows how many basic people there are.
 
Dancfc said:
Not just him saying it.



https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30610-3
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That’s the same publication he’s talking about. I’ve read it. I posted about the pre-publication version in this thread last Friday.

Don’t get me wrong. It is good news but he’s making wild assumptions based on that research that nobody else is (see above re “T cell immunity passport” :rolleyes:) And, as I said, partial immunity for people who’ve previously infected with a different coronavirus is a good thing but hasn’t stopped the virus spreading like wildfire until now. So won’t stop it spreading like wildfire in the future.
 
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Tibs said:
Queuing for fecking KFC, McDonalds....just shows how many basic people there are.
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You know how some modern people turn up to meet a truly third-rate celebrity when they're desperately flogging their book* in a mall? Well, I wonder if these fast food queues are much the same thing - hoping to be photographed, and then seen on social media.

*For example, Katie Price gave away tins of Quality Street with 'live' purchased copies of her 497th autobiography.
 
sun_tzu said:
possibly... that said i fully expect traffic jams around mcdonalds when they re-open
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Just drove past a KFC that’s open. It’s within a small retail park and the queue for the drive-thru runs around the entire car park.
 
SteveJ said:
You know how some modern people turn up to meet a truly third-rate celebrity when they're desperately flogging their book* in a mall? Well, I wonder if these fast food queues are much the same thing - hoping to be photographed, and then seen on social media.

*For example, Katie Price gave away tins of Quality Street with 'live' purchased copies of her 497th autobiography.
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A big part of it is the social media aspect I would say. For weeks a lot of these people (not all, but defo some) have been stuck at home, less likes and comments on their social media as they've had nothing to do, and they really depend on that. As soon as the opportunity presents itself, they're there.

A few people I know where practically posting themselves naked for likes a couple of weeks ago, and this week, McDonalds, KFC, Beach trip, meeting up with friends....

Social Media eh
 
Tibs said:
A big part of it is the social media aspect I would say. For weeks a lot of these people (not all, but defo some) have been stuck at home, less likes and comments on their social media as they've had nothing to do, and they really depend on that. As soon as the opportunity presents itself, they're there.

A few people I know where practically posting themselves naked for likes a couple of weeks ago, and this week, McDonalds, KFC, Beach trip, meeting up with friends....

Social Media eh
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In the modern world, many spend their lives convincing others that they have lives.
 
SteveJ said:
You know how some modern people turn up to meet a truly third-rate celebrity when they're desperately flogging their book* in a mall? Well, I wonder if these fast food queues are much the same thing - hoping to be photographed, and then seen on social media.

*For example, Katie Price gave away tins of Quality Street with 'live' purchased copies of her 497th autobiography.
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S02E02-83JFpoqX-subtitled.jpg
 
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