Thank you. But they are monitoring this whole thing again. Personally I think China opened Wuhan up too soon. Unless, unless they have found a cure. May not be a vaccine but a cure. Surely they can't afford to have it the second time again?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Thank you. But they are monitoring this whole thing again. Personally I think China opened Wuhan up too soon. Unless, unless they have found a cure. May not be a vaccine but a cure. Surely they can't afford to have it the second time again?
Those charts look good, yeah? Lines are levelling or going down. Worst parts over for a lot of countries, yes or no?
I think that dengue fever is the only disease I've heard that is more harmful the second time. I would be absolutely terrified (and surprised) if we don't get any immunity (whatsoever) from the first infection. It likely won't be lifetime (most are not, and none of the coronaviruses that cause common cold give lifetime immunity) but no immunity at all would be very surprising. In that case, I don't know how a vaccine would even work.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's only the case if you get one of the other strains of it? Dengue fever is a real evolutionary motherfecker though, and we'd have to have a few generations of bad luck packed into 2020 for this to mutate into something nasty like that.
Terrifying indeed! My solace through this was the belief that it's one and done for lower risk people for a year or so, protect those that need protecting and then there's a vaccine before the next go round. That lends itself to the recovered helping, volunteering and donating plasma etc.
Good to know that it's highly irregular for a potential second infection to have more severe symptoms, in any case.
I think so, but I don't remember exactly. I think I had read something that when the number of antibodies reduces past some threshold, then getting reinfected is more dangerous than being infected in the first place. So on some level, getting infected gives you some immunity for the time being, but later it can be even more dangerous.
I also think that if you get infected with 2 different versions of malaria in succession, it is more dangerous. But yes, in any case we are talking for different strains. And those diseases are very dissimilar to this. A better comparison is the common cold which gives some immunity (and I believe for short term close to total immunity).
Parasites like malaria built immune tolerance rather than immunity over long exposure periods don't they?
It sounds awfully convenient that apparently mostly some unnamed scientists are to blame, instead of the politicians whose faces are all known. But then Reuters aren't known for political propaganda, are they?
Having read an article about testing in Germany previously some parts sounded unbelievable, like:
"According to emails and more than a dozen scientists interviewed by Reuters, the government issued no requests to labs for assistance with staff or testing equipment until the middle of March"
compared to "Since February, between 200 and 300 German laboratories have become involved in the rapid testing scheme."
https://spectator.us/germany-managed-perform-covid-19-tests/
It does not seem to me so sensationalist. The photo of vox in Gran vía with corpses, yes it is, but not this.
If my grandfather dies suddenly and they tell me it is respiratory failure, I would like to know what caused it and what is going on , instead the censored press conferences, as until two days ago, to give an example.
They have turned the call for unity into a censure of any criticism of the government, when they did exactly the same with Ebola. Even manifestations by the dog they sacrificed.
Kinda looks like the trendline for medals in the Summer Olympics and we re winning again. Yay!....
was the clapping for Boris tonight? There’s been loads of clapping twice where I live but didn’t hear any last night. I am in a very pro Labour spot though.
Well, will disagree on our opinions then
The graphic has a catch as it is logarithmic on the Y axis but yes, looks like Spain and Italy past the peak and UK is slowing down. But is too soon. France changed their counting criteria so is difficult to say. US still climbing probably far from the peak yet
I must say, I'm pinning my hope on a high-tech state like Germany to be the driving force in combating this virus. I might be misguided in this, but I reckon that as long as the hospitals are not overwhelmed, they can probably do a lot of clinical trials, perhaps be among the first to suggest a way out of this mess through medicines or even a vaccine, and having a head of state with a history of cooperation and solidarity doesn't hurt either.
Thoughts ?
I think he has a point and in a way it might make this far more manageable in that fewer people will need full ventilator support. And of course it might help other doctors get better outcomes for their patients if they are slower to put them on ventilators especially when they don't have pneumonia. That said I think many doctors will already be doing what he suggests.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200407/doctors-puzzle-over-covid19-lung-problems
Good description of the situation in India and will be in most 2nd and 3rd world countries and probably some first world ones as well...
India will quietly be the next Italy.
Sounds like Sweden. Exactly what they are doing. Going to ugly and fast.
Tbf on Buster and the like, when humans feel helpless, they will always seek to blame someone for their station rather than looking inwards/domestic govt in this case. It's a natural human condition for some -- externalise their plight.
How else do wars get started -- but by the sub-humanising of others/groups as a convenient excuse?
SARs has a limited transmission period. I recall that a carrier is contagious during the period where symptoms appeared. This makes it easier to trace and isolate carriers. Problem with Covid-19 is thati it has a longer contagious period, and carriers can be asymptomatic
If this virus started off within some random small country that had a small economic personality in comparison to the majority of the world & made mistakes that causes 10 to 100 of thousands of deaths per day then I'm sure the world would have the balls to question the country afterwards and make an agreement with that country to sort something out that needs to be checked by multiple countries.
The fact is - china already have the balls to say it's not their fault, and they dont have to say sorry - continuously through multiple outlets. They expect this all to end and everything to go back to normal with all countries looking after their own soil.
We can talk about how countries are shite at looking after a pandemic but literally what about the country that creates pandemics for the world more often than not?
Eff that, they do have to say sorry and things do have to change in that country by the force of other countries for the greater good of both humanity and animals.
The fact is - china already have the balls to say it's not their fault, and they dont have to say sorry - continuously through multiple outlets. They expect this all to end and everything to go back to normal with all countries looking after their own soil.
We can talk about how countries are shite at looking after a pandemic but literally what about the country that creates pandemics for the world more often than not?
Eff that, they do have to say sorry and things do have to change in that country by the force of other countries for the greater good of both humanity and animals.
I have had Dengue twice in the last 24 months. It is a horrible disease, but it is nothing to do with a different strain. It's because your body produces anti bodies the first time around, once you are better the amount in you drops. If it drops below a certain point and you catch it again what happens is your body doesn't produce new antibodies immediately and the ones you have attach themselves to the virus, but there are not enough of them to stop it, instead they actually help disguise it so it can enter healthy cells. It is a bitch of a disease, I have never been so ill in my life!
I agree with all of this, but what must happen for one country should happen for all, The US gave us the 2009 outbreak of swine flu, a nasty mix of pig, bird and human virus. West Africa probably gave us HIV as well as Ebola. The Arabian peninsula was the original source of MERS. This needs a global answer, not just a shut down wet markets in China response. Novel viruses can originate anywhere in the world, especially now climate change in many places is pushing animals, humans, crops and livestock all closer and closer together.
Sweden is still very much under control despite this pal.
What is ”going ugly” @Denis79? We’ve seen a decrease in cases for quite a few days (5 days if yesterday continued the trend, we'll see at 14:00 so fingers crossed) and the death toll, which is a picture of the pandemic from 2-3 weeks ago has been a steady 40 ish per day since last week. Hopefully the highest total so far (55) on the 2nd April was some kind of peak.
ICU entries per day since 23rd March have been: 38, 34, 31,40, 27, 28, 40, 31, 32, 42, 43, 43, 27, 40, 33, yesterday unknown till 14:00.
Add to that it’s only Stockholm that is being hit with any real degree of it and you’ll see that what we are doing is working over the country so far. As the Goteborg Health Minister said yesterday, they are so fortunate that their half term was in week 7, whereas Stockholm was week 9, the Italy horror week. Gothenburg, our second biggest city has seen just 26 deaths, and just 66 people into ICU since all this began.
Sweden registered their first 2 deaths on 14th March, Portugal 18th March so there's a 4 day difference there. Portugal was already in some kind of voluntary lockdown then. 4 days ago our total deaths was almost identical to Portugal now.
What I think will change now is that Portugal will drop right off due to their lockdown, whereas Sweden will likely continue at a stable level so the deaths will really start to pull away from Portugal, maybe for months, which is the plan, putting in measures that the population of Sweden can maintain for month after month after month.
The key for Portugal after the big drop off they will likely see is what they do after lockdown.
You'd imagine the vast majority of school kids and parents in the Stockholm area have likely had a dose of Covid-19 already.
The next week and Easter is crucial though, you can really sense that the Swedish authorities are shitting it about us fecking up this good trend at Easter.
Where we have "fecked up" is that we have it in 121 nursing homes in the Stockholm area.
Worldometres don't edit the records to show updated figures in the correct days, which could give you an incorrect picture. Here is the Swedish health ministry stats: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa
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What’s the SK model?
This lockdown has already made people go insane. You sound like a child having a tantrum.
It was quite funny whilst driving through part of London/Surrey. I never realised so many cycled.
On another note, I argued this the other day with a friend. The small freedom we get will also get taken away due to the idiots.
Okay mama, it's not easy times to be fair.
This started off with caged animals and now we feel like caged humans.
Pure karmic consequence.
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South Korea model.
Essentially, no lockdown but a lot of testing followed by contact tracing and quarantine. And of course monitoring the entire society .
Best case scenario IMO. People do not lose their jobs, economy continues while the number of victims is small.
Yes basically the north east, Paris, Strasbourg, Mulhouse and Lille.
One of my Facebook friends has posted about how she had her parents round yesterday for her birthday but practiced ‘social distancing’ by not sitting close etc.
There’s pictures of them sat at a table eating together.
why are some people so ignorant?
There’s pictures of them sat at a table eating together.
why are some people so ignorant?
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Just on BBC news that the government expected around 3m people to be furloughed and it’s actually closer to 9m costing £40bn over 12 weeks.
The next decade of austerity is going to be even more crippling than the last decade.
The next decade of austerity is going to be even more crippling than the last decade.
Nah, it'll be offset by the Brexit dividend. Things'll be golden.
I don't know, they seem to be able to convince themselves that they're doing what they've been asked to do. It suggests that the way the original message was conveyed wasn't clear enough and allows too much wriggle-room.One of my Facebook friends has posted about how she had her parents round yesterday for her birthday but practiced ‘social distancing’ by not sitting close etc.
There’s pictures of them sat at a table eating together.
why are some people so ignorant?
This doesn’t need to be paid for by austerity. I’ve heard a few economists saying this can’t be treated like any other kind of normal economic crisis. The hole in the bank balance can be filled by other means. 100 year bonds and the like. One of them (Mark Blyth, who is always worth a listen) said lessons have been learned from 2008 and most governments realise that the best way to get the economy going again isn’t by QE or pouring money into institutions but by putting money in people’s pockets.
I’m reasonably optimistic that austerity won’t be a tactic used in the aftermath of all this.
If its over, Its over due to the social distancing.
How to keep them going down while re introducing everyone back to a normal society is the question?
It cant spread if people arent in contact.
Thanks.
I get the whole testing and tracing aspect.
But I meant more, what limitations are they putting on society to achieve relatively low new case rates. Presumably there must be some? I can’t believe testing, tracing, and quarantining alone would result in their level of new cases simply due to the nature of how the virus spreads.
The hope is that hand washing and social distancing becomes habitual. Which I can understand. Will you be shaking hands with anyone soon? Think about how different we all feel about being near other people to how we felt in January. It’s like a completely different era.