Berge vs Casemiro
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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I agree with you.
No matter who we're linked with people will eventually twist themselves in knots to pretend that it's actually a great idea. The cope never ends. (I'm also on the Berge cope train due to my fetish for tall, athletic players)
We could be linked with Jonjo Shelvey and it would play out like:
Monday: This isn't happening
Tuesday: Can't believe we're actually interested in him. He's shit and he's been injured for 3 years.
Wednesday: I guess he was actually good for Newcastle at times... but that was nearly a decade ago
Thursday: He does still have a great switch of play on him. Nice shiny head too
Friday: Here's a YouTube video from his loan at Rizespor: You Won't Believe How Good Jonjo Shelvey Is In 2024 - Amazing Skills, Goals, Passes & Tackles | Technical Elegance | HD
Saturday: This scatter chart shows Jonjo Shelvey is actually still elite. Look at all the green on FBRef. Moneyball?
Sunday: If we don't sign Jonjo Shelvey we're absolutely fecked
This is spot on.
Meh, we'll get what we're given, I suppose.
Neither do I, as a squad player.
Berge vs Casemiro
Not an improvement on Casemiro is damning. Can only hope he's maybe seen as the Amrabat alternative as the backup, rather than a Ugarte alternative as the starting CDM.
Regarding the idea that he could be a good squad player: I understand that we've got a long season ahead of us and football is a squad game. But...we finished 8th last season, 31 points off the top. It's blatantly clear that our first 11 is well below par and the priority should be getting players in to improve that starting 11. If I could stand in front of the United board today and ask them one question, it would be how are we going to close that gap?
Part of this is down to personnel, and the other part of it is down to tactics. We've got a world class/potential world class talent in Mainoo and my expectation in this window was that we would be looking for the person to partner him in midfield during this window, e.g. the best possible fit. I just get the impression that the club aren't quite sure what to do in this regard.
Part of this is down to personnel, and the other part of it is down to tactics. We've got a world class/potential world class talent in Mainoo and my expectation in this window was that we would be looking for the person to partner him in midfield during this window, e.g. the best possible fit. I just get the impression that the club aren't quite sure what to do in this regard.
We are on the same page then. I think he's an improvement over Casemiro(finished at this level) and McT(isn't really a midfielder) and arguably Eriksen too as his legs have gone.
I think Berge is comfortably better than what Casemiro showed last season.
The bar is, admittedly, set incredibly low there. The amount of times he was overrun or outplayed in midfield last season was staggering.
He's not a perfect partner for Mainoo, but arguably a decent one for me.
However, all the other names we've been linked with have something they lack as well, when thinking about how they'd fit into our midfield, at least in my opinion.
Berge should be considered as a floor-raiser signing, with a limited ceiling, but for good value. The other option this summer seems to be spending 40-50m on another option that, just like Berge, likely doesn't have a long-term future as a key player, anyways.
Youssouf Fofana would be another cheap, decent value option IMO, so I'm not trying to say it should be Berge or no one. I'm saying what we could get in the likes of Ugarte, maybe I'd list Zubimendi here as well, we could very well attain for cheaper. No need to spend big, when it's very likely that you are going to be looking for a truly elite long-term target within the next 2 summers anyways, for the same position. One that raises the ceiling of the squad as well, not just the floor.
berge would be a v underwhelming signing.
In isolation yes. I don't think it would be just him. Id hope not.
No matter who we're linked with people will eventually twist themselves in knots to pretend that it's actually a great idea. The cope never ends. (I'm also on the Berge cope train due to my fetish for tall, athletic players)
We could be linked with Jonjo Shelvey and it would play out like:
Monday: This isn't happening
Tuesday: Can't believe we're actually interested in him. He's shit and he's been injured for 3 years.
Wednesday: I guess he was actually good for Newcastle at times... but that was nearly a decade ago
Thursday: He does still have a great switch of play on him. Nice shiny head too
Friday: Here's a YouTube video from his loan at Rizespor: You Won't Believe How Good Jonjo Shelvey Is In 2024 - Amazing Skills, Goals, Passes & Tackles | Technical Elegance | HD
Saturday: This scatter chart shows Jonjo Shelvey is actually still elite. Look at all the green on FBRef. Moneyball?
Sunday: If we don't sign Jonjo Shelvey we're absolutely fecked
Bloody hell, spot on.Berge vs Casemiro
Seems absurd to even have these two compared with each other. Casemiro and Sander fecking Berge
Unfortunately there is no "times absolutely roasted leaving us totally exposed" per 90 stats, which would do Casemiro no favours. 82% passing accuracy is also criminal for a midfielder, imagine giving the ball away 1/5 times you pass it at the top level.
You are right, Wout was at one point quite highly rated
What are the rumoured fees involved with this one? I’m all for it if he’s a cheaper alternative to Amrabaat, he’s a decent player and has attributes that we need, at least in the short term.
Supporters have to realise that it’s going to take years to undo the mess that the previous regime left us with. Some of our fans live in dreamland thinking we can target players like Neves. The board have done a great job snatching Yoro, which was probably a bit unexpected and will force us to compromise elsewhere in the short term for that longer term investment.
Supporters have to realise that it’s going to take years to undo the mess that the previous regime left us with. Some of our fans live in dreamland thinking we can target players like Neves. The board have done a great job snatching Yoro, which was probably a bit unexpected and will force us to compromise elsewhere in the short term for that longer term investment.
Probably more than twice what we could get Amrabat for.
Why are we buying players that will be deadwood in a few years time. If we can’t afford a top player then just wait until we can. If it’s going to take time for us to get back to the top then we may as well wait for the right player. Liverpool did it with Van Dyk. They waited for the right player and didn’t just spend on a lesser player.
Thanks buddy
Going by that logic we’d never have signed Roy Keane. Stuart Pearce was also part of that Forest team that got relegated
What would be the price?
Championship player. We really are plumbing new depths.
Out of curiosity, who would be your truly elite long term target?
Difference being Keane was 21 and highly regarded by everyone. Berge is 26 and no Prem clubs rate him. Except us apparently.
I suspect the interest is based on a money ball style approach. May not be a big name but does his stats show he suits the team? Our midfield was carved open all last season, having a new DM should help with that.
My man tried to bring Arnautovic, he won’t frown upon Berge. Far from ideal working conditions though.
You're not really taking into context last season. When we had the majority of the first team available and a normal injury rate we finished 3rd and won a cup. Our first 11 when fit is, in my opinion able to get us into the champions league spots and is able to beat any team. As evidenced by results. What we don't have is a first 11 that I think can challenge for a title over a season and we don't have a squad that can handle big injuries in certain positions. For me its important we resolve the later. What made us finish 8th was not our first 11. It was the poor state of the overall squad who had to fill in for the likes of Shaw, Martinez, Varane, Mount, as well as being forced to run the likes of Rasmus, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho into the ground. Zirkzee and Yoro stengthen the squad. If we get in De Ligt and Mazraoui that further strengthens/improves the defence. A CM/DM signing who can perform better than Amrabat did or challenge Casemiro would also be a good signing that raises the overall base of the team.
Yeah, at this point, that’s all I’m hoping for, considering our financial constraints and our inability/struggle to sell to raise funds. Hoping he’s one of those signings who just fits the system really well and brings out the best in everyone around him.
I have nothing against him coming in for cheap if he’s part of a few new signings for midfield. If he’s the sole player we bring in then I’ve got to start wondering how much better Ineos are than the Glazers because there’s no way we improve with a player like that in the starting line up. We need players in line with what City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have, not Sander bloody Berge
I wasn't sure about him initially (not as a huge talent, but as someone who's a good fit for our midfield), but recently I've changed my mind on Adam Wharton. He would be the one player who I'd choose if I could choose one big talent I wouldn't want us to miss out on.
That has happened too many times even during Ferguson's last few seasons, and especially in the last few years. Rice would've been an almost perfect, long term solution, for example.
We switched our attention to him after getting rebuffed over Ugarte. There is no indication we were looking at both.
At this price point, for a Mct/Amrabat replacement we should've gone for Archie Gray, much higher ceiling.
I think everyone (even Ineos) agrees with you there bud. That’s why we’ve been linked with many other midfielders as well, but we’re struggling financially, unless we’re able to sell a couple more players.
Well we are a club owned by the Glazers not Ineos
sander fecking berge
Wow,with a seriously weak midfield ETH is going to be out of a job by January, at least berge will have kelvin Phillips beside him next summer when Gareth is in charge.
You laugh, but he provided a pinpoint assist for Antony last season.sander fecking berge
He might just be the one to finally unlock him.
Does anyone here genuinely think that Berge is a better signing for our midfield that Onana? (whom was obtainable a month ago for 50m)
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