Is he available for cheap?
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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I don't know if you've noticed, but we've had new owners for around 8 months now, and to call what they've shown so far mediocrity might be the dumbest thing I've read today and that's impressive. Maybe if your attention span would extend to over 1-2 weeks, you wouldn't be crying about anything and everything on here, as well as shit and underrate every player we have and everything that's going on with the club currently.
I'm convinced a big chunk of users on here just use this forum as a platform to whine and let out their frustrations, without using their brain for a single second.
Not sure what the purpose of taking a shot at someone on here (“explain that to an adult”) but anyway. You can use all the stats you like, I have watched him at Sheffield Utd and at Burnley (actually at Old Trafford last season where he didn’t retain the ball but actually lost it leading to Antony’s goal), I even watched him a bit at Brugge. I prefer to use the eye test rather than stats which can be misleading, especially when you look at how Burnley played last year. He is simply not good enough, you can use any metric you like but he is not top 4 quality in my opinion. If you do want to look at stats, might I suggest looking at Fofana’s for Monaco last season?Eh... Berge has the best retention statistics of any no.6 in all of Europe's Top Five Leagues.
THE BEST.
He is literally number one in Europe at doing the job we are looking to fulfil.
We aren't looking for a flair playmaker like Luca Modric. Or a a swift No.8 like Pirlo. Or a an adaptable midfielder like Paul Scholes. We are looking for a player with a very specific set of attributes. "Win the ball back. Recycle it." There is nobody better in Europe at that, according to the metrics, than Berge. Are Pirlo and Modric and Scholes all better individual footballers than Berge? Absolutely. Would they do a batter job than Berge at winning possession back and recyling it? No.
That's very simple. And bvery basic football understanding. Horses for courses.
We used to win league titles with Darren Fletcher playing this role for us... Was Darren Fletcher better than Gerrard? Nope. Did he win a lot more than Gerrard? Yep.
Horses for courses. Football is not about getting the best eleven individuals into a team.
I can't believe I have to explain that to an adult.
The other fella saying we shouldn't be signing a player who's just been relegated.Can somebody rewind to 1994 and tell Notts Forest we're not interested in Roy Keane anymore?
People just look at a player's age, the team he plays and teams he played for, look at team achievements, and just decide his level and potential ceiling by these "metrics", without even having seen them play or delved deeper into things to analyze the player.
Ya all appear to have watched him a lot, so I'll pose the question I posted in the Zubimendi thread. Care to explain why they appear so similar and what makes Berge so terrible of a signing and Zubimendi that great of a signing?
Exciting times
It will be like winning the lottery for him. He probably can't believe his own luck.
United do things in the market others can only dream of. Or whatever it was.
United do things in the market others can only dream of. Or whatever it was.
There are some convincing arguments in here that are making me quite receptive to signing him. Mainoo and Bruno are mavericks, having somebody unspectacular who is solid defensively, can also handle a press and has a physical presence sounds like a great option to have as a 6.
So you're just forming your opinion by making assumptions about what clubs want and do, despite the public not even being aware of 99% of what's going on behind the scenes?
I don't want X player because no one else has been linked with them other than United.
And then you bring up an example where the other player was at best linked with 2 or 3 other clubs other than the one he ended up going to. So you think only 2-3 clubs in world football were interested in him?
Also, Onana was not reliably linked with United or Arsenal as far as I'm aware. Not sure who else was in for Wieffer and Gray as well other than Brighton and Spurs?
Wrong thread, because your describing Ugarte. This guy is closer to the one he's replacing, Mctominay.
For me he just doesn’t look good on the ball. A bit rough like Amrabat. I think we could and should do better.Football really is a game of opinions eh
IMO It's a low risk signing. As I've said previously our biggest issue is no matter which midfield we played it was missing something - usually defensive awareness and mobility. He covers those and we don't need him to be flashy, just make the simple passes consistently.
Well, Wijnaldum was relegated then signed for Liverpool at the age of 26. Berge was linked with Liverpool for several years even up until last summer. Echo mentioned him only a few days ago as a suitable target for Liverpool, citing that Klopp has been a firm fan of Berge for years. The relevance being that, despite playing for a relegated side, top clubs/managers have seen something in him that makes him suitable for an ambitious top side. Our problem is that he would instantly be our second best midfielder on paper, when he's probably just a good rotation option at best (as his price suggests).
For what is worth, I'm not advocating us signing him (he has been a big letdown for Norway), I just understand why top clubs can find his profile interesting.
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These terrible examples keep getting brought up.
Wijnaldum, Keane and Shaqiri were clearly established players, they just happened to be in relagated teams but didn't play a single second in the Championship. They were players who had proved they belong in the PL and made transfers to big clubs well in advance of the season starting. We're a week away from a new PL season and Berge is still in the Championship.
Robertson and Drogba were late bloomers. How is this comparable to Berge who has been in the PL since he was 21/22 and before that was a highly rated young player in Europe who had already played CL football.
You seem desperate to draw parallels where there aren't any. No poster has said you can't get good players from lower leagues, you clearly can but these are usually unestablished players looking for their shot in the big leagues not seasoned PL players who have yo-yo'd between the PL and Championship.
You should show more compassion to those of us not blessed with your gigantic attention span.
I dont think Zubimendi would be a great signing. He's just the best of that type of player getting talked about and seemingly available. Ugarte is the best destroyer type available.
Neither would be amazing signings, far from it given the fees, but at least they would be an improvement on what we have. Unlike Berge.
What he said applies to Berge too, again, judging by the stats. Not the tackling monster that Ugarte is, but solid defensively nonetheless.
Has anyone watched him for Burnley? Like I said his stats looks decent enough but I barely remember him playing against us.
Nonsense. Risk is relative and you have to balance it. Our current deadwood, McTom aside:
- AWB £50m
- Maguire £80m
- Lindelof £30m (2017, so probably about £50 in today's market)
- Antony £90m
- Casemiro £75m
- Sancho £75m
A £20m signing is 100% a lower amount of risk. Because if they lose 50% of their value you have still only lost 10m + wages. It's also a lower risk in this scenario because we've a sample size of them in our own league - only two of the above came from our own league and of those two they both had very clear technical and/or physical deficiencies and commanded great fees.
As of right now our DM options are Casemiro whose legs have gone and Collyer who's not played a single minute. In fact Casemiro has spent more time being bad for us than good. This means we have to at least bring in something as close a known entity as possible who doesn't have as clear, large technical/physical flaws as the alternative signings would (Ugarte, Zubimendi, whoever). Each of those alternatives would cost both more wages and greater fee, or would be a greater risk in terms of age, profile or the league they come from.
Personally I would have gone for Onana - no idea why we haven't but I assume it was either him or Branthwaite. But after that, every other signing we could make poses a greater risk - and just Casemiro/Collyer going into the season poses the greatest risk.
Again, there doesn't appear to be an awful lot of difference between them both. Keep in mind that one played for a relegated team which means Berge managed similar stats while playing for a less dominant team. Why would he be an awful signing if he manages to improve on that by playing with better players around him? Even at his current level, I'd say he's an improvement on Casemiro(who is finished at this level) and McT(who isn't really a midfielder and not one to help us keep possession).
This is all you need to judge him really. He's been in the PL for a few seasons and at the very least everyone would have seen him up against us a couple of times a year and for others like me who watch our rivals games, we're talking a few times a season.
For the most part every player in the league is a decent enough player especially in CM, so sticking out is hard unless you are actually a really good player.
Players like Christian Norgaard, Jefferson Lerma and Cheick Doucoure are also good players with good stats. If you say why not to Berge, you'd be saying why not to most starting midfielders in the league.
I know this didn't answer your question though
30m for him is mental, I'm not that against him as a option, but for that price? Also it would be pretty uninspiring if he's the only person we bring in to fix our massively poor midfield.
Apparently he doesn't like the physical side of the game though
This is all you need to judge him really. He's been in the PL for a few seasons and at the very least everyone would have seen him up against us a couple of times a year and for others like me who watch our rivals games, we're talking a few times a season.
For the most part every player in the league is a decent enough player especially in CM, so sticking out is hard unless you are actually a really good player.
Players like Christian Norgaard, Jefferson Lerma and Cheick Doucoure are also good players with good stats. If you say why not to Berge, you'd be saying why not to most starting midfielders in the league.
I know this didn't answer your question though
Yeah it really didn't answer. Anyways I think any CM we sign is set up to fail in our suicidal tactical set up. Big time EtH works on that but then same issues was raised by Dutch pundits during his Ajax days and it's still the same.
He only played 17 mins in the 0-1 home game. Played 90 in the 1-1 at OT where they had more possession than us.
I can’t believe that I was on this board 5 years ago yelling about how he’s not close to a United standard midfielder and here we are in 2024 and I’m still having to say the same thing.
Frustrates me to no end
Not all decent squad players have to have fancy South American names and come from top European clubs for stupid transfer fees. I trust the approach we are taking, he's a good player and a player that will appreciate playing for Manchester United.
We need decent quality throughout the squad. He'd be a good option.
We need decent quality throughout the squad. He'd be a good option.
Of course he does, I bet he can't believe his fecking luck. Any Burnley fans here who can soothe our concerns about him being shite?
Sandero Berginhos not exotic enough for you?
So he's essentially a less 'exotic' version of Ugarte? I.e. a hard working DM who covers a lot of ground, gets stuck in but is otherwise pretty ordinary on the ball.
Considering the lack of enthusiasm there was for us signing Ugarte, his cheaper alternative shouldn't be anything to scoff at tbh.
Better than starting the season with an immobile Casemiro anyway.
Considering the lack of enthusiasm there was for us signing Ugarte, his cheaper alternative shouldn't be anything to scoff at tbh.
Better than starting the season with an immobile Casemiro anyway.
Exactly. We had to defend him and it was like that for some seasons. Eventually everyone can agree how great Carrick was. One of my all time favourites.
I agree that Berge might never be anything like Carrick, but I find some of his qualities interesting. People might be surprised.
So is Sheth the only guy pushing this in the media? Same guy that went on a United supporter YT show and basically said he has concrete news that we might or might not be interested in selling Sancho to PSG.
Some fun comments on a Burnley forum I just looked at.
"Not good enough for someone trying to get top 4"
"Baffled they are trying to offload McTominay and replace him with Berge"
Also some think he is one of their best players along with O'Shea and Brownhill.
"Not good enough for someone trying to get top 4"
"Baffled they are trying to offload McTominay and replace him with Berge"
Also some think he is one of their best players along with O'Shea and Brownhill.
Maybe we should try and poach them too. We need as many
Haven't seen a comparison here but is he better than Amrabat?
Fernandinho was playing for Shakthar Donetsk at 26. It doesn't define how good you are or how well you can gel with a new team.
I don't think Berge is good enough either, but a mobile DM is a thousand times better than the current Casemiro.
Well they were talking about replacing Berge with some lad from Plymouth for 7 million. I reckon we should just skip the queue and get him instead. 23 mill saved.
The current Casemiro is easily matched and can be surpassed by hardworking midfielder alone, if he is better than amrabat then we should sign him, squad depth is more important at this moment in time
I think it'd be very easy to imagine that McTominay is a lot better than he is as a fan of another club who probably only sees him pop up with a goal every few weeks on highlights.
Yeah oppo fans overrate him massively. You hear them say things like "McTominay and Mainoo is a good midfield to build around"
I’m baffled that this is seriously being considered.
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