Fair enough, as I said it was off the top of my head, I actually wanted to find our most used line up, but couldn't find the stats anywhere
Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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Such a stupid response. It's a team game, plenty players have come from relegated sides and ended up in title winning sides.
If it was summer 2017, and we were looking at a certain Andy Robertson at Hull City, your comment would be saying "He does it all so well his team conceded 80 goals and got relegated" and also probably something along the lines of "he's already 23 and still plays for a team that got relegated"
Bringing up team achievements and trying to make a point with them when trying to analyze a player or judge their talent instantly invalidates everything you say to me, as it's clear you have no idea how good or bad the player in question is.
Btw many players have had great careers that never really kicked off at the age you would except them to. Rodri at 20 was in Villarreal B, Drogba at 24 was in the French second division, Robertson got relegated with Hull at 23, 2 years before he was proclaimed as the best left-back on the planet, Matic himself was playing in Serbia and Slovakia between 18 and 21, then was on loan at Vitesse at 22/23, and then just 3 years later, like you said, one of the best DMs in the world. Development is often not linear, and Berge doesn't even need to become one of the best players in his position for your flawed logic to be proven wrong.
Did you also think this way when City bought Ake off Bournemouth for £41m when they got relegated while shipping 65 goals ?
None of what things?
I think this interest is being blown out of proportion anyway. He is clearly down the list of options. We absolutely need someone in this summer to play the midfield anchor and being unable to sell anyone means we have to look further down our list of transfer targets. Is what it is. The club can't sign nobody.
Whilst I somewhat agree with you, Casemiro's issue wasn't just off the ball. He's ball carrying is nonexistent and his passing is incredibly inconsistent.
It's okay, I know some people just have an impenetrable smokescreen of copium when it comes to United's behaviour in the transfer market.
There's quite a few young players who got relegated but went on to have good careers, Robertson and Carrick to name a couple. But 26 isn't young. Established defensive players who got relegated and went on to do well at a high level are as rare as Norweigans who rate Berge.
It's not about being ''broke'' its FFP rules we are trying to abide by.
I thought this was a joke when i saw it.
No way is he a utd player and no way is he worth 30million.
We should be looking at Ederson at Atalanta or Zubimendi not Sander feckin Berge
No way is he a utd player and no way is he worth 30million.
We should be looking at Ederson at Atalanta or Zubimendi not Sander feckin Berge
This has brought up an interesting point this link. Some fans are clearly incapable of picturing how different profile of players can fit into a midfield. People saying he’s not better than Casemiro, McTominay etc but that isn’t the point. His profile is infinitely more suitable than those players in midfield.
I don’t think anybody is expecting Bellingham but Jesus this is bargain bin territory
Would generally rather go with what we have rather than fill the squad with mediocre shite
He's nothing like Rodri besides being tall
To be fair, Berge has been linked alot with Liverpool over the years, and that was even when they had Klopp. Also you have several examples of players getting relegated and ending up being class for a top club right after. Not saying that Berge will do that, but he has some qualities that has had him linked with several topclubs, so he probably scores high on underlying metrics for his role.
Onana went for 50m, we would have been quoted a higher fee. Gray would never move to us, his family is way more ingrained in Leeds than any other Leeds player. And Zubimendi has a release clause which probably means either pay upfront (cashflow issue) or negotiate a deal with a similar structure to Zirksee.
I bet after back to back seasons at relegation fodder...
That's part of the reason I don't think he's good enough
To me, it seems like being unbiased for you means whining about everything, underrating and shitting on every player we have, criticizing the club for anything they do.
Just cry about everything, reason with irrelevant surface level nonsense, and you just dismiss anyone as deluded who is willing to delve deeper into things and contextualize stuff.
Guessing not most used but going off minutes played in the league by position it's:
Onana
AWB - Maguire - Evans - Dalot
Mainoo - Case
Garna - Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund
AWB - Maguire - Evans - Dalot
Mainoo - Case
Garna - Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund
He's more similar to Rodri than any other player in our squad is.
Cheers, but both of these are minutes played. I was hoping to find which 11 started the most games together, much like how it's widely known Becks, Scholes, Keane & Giggs rarely started a game together in '99 despite being what everyone would call our 1st 11
He's a decent passer too, but yeah that is a frightening comparison if anyone actually thinks they are alike and vastly underestimates what Rodri does. Not only has he filled the hard working and exceptional positioning role left by Fernandinho to keep City's midfield and defence from falling apart, but now he's getting forward and scoring goals too - 8 goals and 9 assists last season
What makes Guido Rodríguez a better player than Sander Berge?
What makes Zubimendi a better partner for Mainoo than Berge?
What do you know about Wieffer?
How did you expect United to obtain Leeds' biggest talent in probably decades?
Was no one else interested in the players you listed other than the team they ended up in? Because not many teams "seemingly had interest" in Rodríguez, Onana, Wieffer, Gray, and Zubimendi either...?
I’ve seen him play quite a few time and have family who are Sheffield Utd fans. Their opinion is that he was their best player for a number of seasons and was far too good for that side. From watching him myself I wouldn’t immediately say he’s jumped out as a Utd target, however he’s just the kind of under the radar signing I could see doing very well for us. People are disappointed because he’s playing at Burnley and not a very glamorous name, but let’s be honest we have tried that recruitment before (big names that don’t fit the system) and they have flopped. I think Berge could well be one of those signings opposition fans curse for not thinking of going for him.
And just a point to those people comparing McTominay to him, they are absolutely nothing alike aside from being tall and white.
And just a point to those people comparing McTominay to him, they are absolutely nothing alike aside from being tall and white.
It actually seems to be the alternative now. We are fine with PSR, just have cash flow issues.
Very much the midfield version of wout
Not really though. I don’t want to sign him but he isn’t a donkey.
I'm not sure there is any stats like that out there, but here you can at least see who had the most starts and most minutes played.
I have no idea how good Berge is, but comments like this ring hollow because you could just as easily say Robertson was at Hull for a reason or Wijnaldum was at Newcastle for a reason. Granted Robertson was young when he came to LFC but Gigi was a similar age to Berge, and he was part of a relegation team in Newcastle, if memory serves me correctly.
I don't mind him as a signing, but the 30m fee bandied about I do mind. Feels like a 20m signing at most. And we should keep him on a relatively low wage as well, which is what I expect now under competent management.
If you're not complaining about how the club are behaving, when things are going as badly as they have been, then you're simply embracing mediocrity and cheering on our decay.
I mean forget how substandard he is for a minute. We've just had a season ravaged by injuries and Berge has a long history of hamstring problems. Where is the learning.
I'm trying to trust the process with the new leadership team but if we sign Berge and not sign Fofana, who is available for £5-10m more, I would question the scouting!
In an ideal world, Sancho to PSG and Ugarte to us (maybe we pay £10m) plus we sign Fofana who would be first switch for both Ugarte and Mainoo thus all three getting enough games. I'd be open to signing Berge if we sold McT, Eriksen, Case so that our midfield options for the 3 positions would be:-
Mainoo
Ugarte
Fofana
Berge
Collyer
Mount
Bruno
Zirkzee
In an ideal world, Sancho to PSG and Ugarte to us (maybe we pay £10m) plus we sign Fofana who would be first switch for both Ugarte and Mainoo thus all three getting enough games. I'd be open to signing Berge if we sold McT, Eriksen, Case so that our midfield options for the 3 positions would be:-
Mainoo
Ugarte
Fofana
Berge
Collyer
Mount
Bruno
Zirkzee
Sander Berge, the new David Brooks.
Ezequiel Fernandez just went to Saudi for £16 million and hes better so if we spend a lot on Berge its going to sting
Does anyone know how much this player would cost us? Personally, I wouldn't mind signing a player from Burnley, even though they were relegated. However, I've read here that some people are suggesting a fee between £18-30 million, which seems outrageous and just plain dumb. Yes, a central midfielder is not cheap, but surely there are players of similar ability out there who would cost less?
Robertson was 23 when he joined Liverpool. By 25 he was widely regarded as the best left back in the world.
Wijnaldum was 26, yes.
Shaqiri was relegated with Stoke as well, before joining Liverpool, at 26.
Drogba was in Ligue 2 at 24.
Roy Keane was relegated with Nottingham.
Johnsen joined United at 27 from Turkey.
Maguire is a good counter-argument as well, despite casuals generally not rating him at all. Relegated with Hull in 2017, only 1 year older than Robertson, then 2 years later in 2019 both United and City were seriously looking at him, because he was one of the best centre halves in the Premier League by that point.
And there are many, many more examples of late bloomers or great players who hadn't got the chance of getting the move to a big club by their mid-20s yet.
And Berge doesn't even need to become a world class player, he just needs to become someone who can raise the floor of the squad and help us until we sign an elite player to replace him with.
Good post. I remember when United were looking at bringing Carrick in and fans on this forum were losing their shit thinking he’s not good enough. I’m not saying Berge will go on to be a United great in midfield but I’m sure he’ll be better than what some on here think.
Been wondering something similar. Based on how he's described/hyped here, you'd think PL clubs would be lining up for his signature as soon as Burnely went down. Surely there are many teams who could use a player like him on the cheap.
Burnley paid £12m with a year left, after Sheff Utd paid £22m for him. He wont be less than £20m.
I can assure you that when you increase the pool to players 26 or over who were relegated back to back seasons the list returns almost no one. Berge being linked with Liverpool in the past is of no relevance today.
Everybody gets linked with top clubs at some point. Ben Godfrey, Will Hughes, Sean Leandro Dendoncker, Wilfred Ndidi all have been linked with big clubs in the past but have no business being at one today and it’s no different with Berge.
If you weren’t so hellbent on taking a defensive position you’d see that I wasn’t saying United should get any of these players. My point is a player with extensive PL experience is available in a position these teams need and none of them look to have even had a look at Berge. The season starts next week and he’s still a championship player.
Don’t ask me what I know about their players I have nothing to do with it. I want you to answer why you think their recruitment teams opted for those players over Berge.
Even Fulham seem to be chasing Mctominay. I have no clue if it’s for the DM position but they currently haven’t signed a Palhinha replacement.
Your last paragraph is where you let yourself down. You can check yourself and see a lot of those players weren’t just targeted by those sides. I mean Onana was pretty clearly linked with United and Arsenal this summer and that’s just one example.
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