Amusingly Im not surprised at your take on this. Its in line with your usual shit.
Sam Kerr | Found not guilty of racially aggravated harassment
- Thread starter ryansgirl
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Replace ‘White’ with ‘Black’ and ‘Bastard’ with ‘Cnut’ - different people, same kind of insult isn’t it despite the obvious differences around historical context. As some others also said, it’s a racist insult if the person on the receiving end believes it to be racist.
a depressingly predictable response for somebody who would advocate that nonsense tweet.
I talked to a policeman recently who told me about one of the worst things you'll ever hear in midlands ireland involving a family of colour and kids. It wasn't on the news and nor will it be. but around the same time it was happening i read multiple news headlines about pierce brosnan swimming in an out of bounds area of a national park and getting in trouble. Do I randomly cherry pick these two stories and shove them together as akwardly as they are in this post, and go 'prove her wrong' as she demands? Or is one story in the news because it involves a famous person and the other isnt because it's part of a daily horror that happens across all aspects of society. She, and seemingly you, are inventing a parralel between the 2 stories, and while doing so also ignoring that the guy is on the news all over the world! and charged! what more do you want? go on social media and see if he's being pilloried, im sure he rightfully is. You want to have it every way, or are so terminally on twitter that you cant see your flagrant hypocrisy.
do you not think you're being a little disingenous here? i think most people are accepting of the fact that there is a difference for many reasons, but making the distinction that legally there isnt. When you consider precedent and how judgements can impact others, we cant cherry pick when the law is concerned. she's supposedly said something to him, while drunk and abusive and he was just working, and he's taken it as he has. sure, another officer might not have even noticed, but he did, and within the law has the right to complain whatever way he wants about her. It would be interesting to hear her explain why she brought his skin colour into the situation at all, if it was in a way that wasn't racially driven, with my most generous hat on, i cant think of one. Especially when you consider a taxi man has already had to call police, we can assume it wasnt a polite observation. All of course, assuming she said it.
Of course white racist shitbags as you say, those with an agenda against racial unity and elements of the far right are going to have a field day with it.
In the same way, those on the far left, and politicians with substantial minority voter bases have a field day when a minority gets racially abused , especially when the abuse is carried out by a cop - that doesn’t make all cops bad right. As a minority (South Asian descent), I’ve met plenty of good cops in Australia, in NZ and when I’ve travelled the States frequently including the red states - In fact I’ve made plenty of friends around states like Georgia, Utah and Tennessee who are Republican voters. They’re not all racist shit bags because they come from rural counties of former confederate states while voting Republican right, although I’m sure those people exist.
These are all prejudices we have - the law being applied equally to people regardless of who they are actually goes a long way in getting rid of these prejudices. If Sam Kerr is exonerated for the sole reason that she said this to a white person, it only strengthens the racist shitbags on the other side that you mention, along with their narratives.
She wasn’t in Australia, she was in London. The context is UK law relating to racially aggravated crimes, not some history lesson relating to race relations in either country.
We agree (I think) that her actions and her words were wrong and deserving of punishment.
Therefore, I put it to you that her use of the word white makes it a racial remark and is punishable under race crime legislation rather than legislation relating to being drunk and disorderly or insulting a police officer, particularly if the officer in question took offence to the remark.
Yep, that's why they're calling her a national hero
I don’t know why she said it either but it’s not hard to come up with a theory, right? Any ethnic minority will be familiar with the reputation police have for treating them harshly/unfairly because the police are often accused of being racist themselves. So if she thinks the policeman is treating her badly because of her race then the race of that police man will be front and centre in her mind when she starts cussing him out.
Now, obviously (a word I’m using far too much in this thread) none of this means she wasn’t behaving like a brat, or that the police man’s behaviour wasn’t exemplary. Seeing as she was pissed out of her face at the time it’s fair to assume that she was completely in the wrong. But that doesn’t mean we can ignore the context of a person of colour mentioning that a police man is white when they’re in a confrontation. Which is not at all the same thing as a white person trying to demean a black person by mentioning the colour of their skin.
Charlie ought to pull rank on them while they are still part of the commonwealth!Yep, that's why they're calling her a national hero
We get it. It's just that there shouldn't be a reason you can get away with racially abusing someone just because historically white people have endured less of it.
I honestly don’t care what the law says here. Like I said, we’re not in court. I’m just pushing back on people who seem to think there’s absolutely no difference between a white person insulting black person over their skin colour and vice versa.
I do think it’s a bit pathetic for a white person to feel offended/threatened/victimised when their skin colour is mentioned, mind you. Same thing when that England rugby player tried to report the Springbok prop for (allegedly) calling him a white cnut.
Ah I see. Not the same impact to who? The white cop? I think you'd be wrong to assume white people aren't personally impacted by racial abuse. At the end of the day we're talking about individuals and a specific situation. I'm not sure why the entire history of colonialism, systemic racism or whatever else needs to be brought into the mix. Could I just go up to any Spanish or Japanese person and racially abuse them because their ancestors likely raped and killed my ancestors in the Philippines? No, I love visiting both Spain and Japan.
I don't mean the history absolves the person of being a jerk, or that it's ok as some kind of revenge for past wrongs. I meant that the words don't have the same weight as there isn't a history of oppression or slavery attached to them.
Perhaps they can be offended but I've not personally met any and I'd be curious to know what they found offensive. If you someone called me a white bastard or whatever I'd probably laugh at the oddness of it but I wouldn't at all be offended because neither me nor my ancestors have had to deal with oppression, slavery etc due to our skin tone.
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Why do people find this so hard to understand? Black/brown people have to work hard to get equality. And insulting them about their skin colour is always intended to remind them of the “lesser” status they’ve had to endure for generations. It’s supposed to bring them down a peg or two. There just isn’t any equivalent to this when a white person is reminded that they’re white.
Good to know some people get a free pass I guess.
Bigotry of low expectations. You seriously heard MLK's speech and thought "nah feck that, I know better". Stop judging people based on the colour of their skin.
Honestly just re-reading this, do you hear yourself? As if non-white people should feel offended if they are "reminded" of their colour, you think people forget?!
Christ
I really don't understand your stance on this. Obviously I understand historical racism plays a part in your thinking (and no I'm not dismissing it still goes on with a minority of backward thinking people) but surely if we are to fully stamp out racism you cannot differentiate between comments based on the colour of the persons skin just because on this occasion the person on receiving end is white and therefore the majority and not coming from a heritage that has been marginalised for centuries. So we should just accept it is OK for someone to use someone's race as a precursor for further derogatory comments just because the person's race is white? It is still discriminating against that person based on the colour of their skin. That is exactly what we are trying to educate to the racists that is wrong.
A big thing is that to racist people. If they see that nothing happens in this case almost to them justifies their stance. Look at Dublin recently whereby racist people began burning hotels with asylum seekers after a number of Muslim riots had taken place.
I want to point out as I can already envisage me being tarred as a racist by people on here for saying any of that, that I abhore racism and cannot comprehend how people in this day and age still act they way they do. But unfortunately human nature and history shows that nothing will ever fully eradicate the unconscious bias from people over race religion etc. There will always be someone out there with idiotic views on others.
In relation to this particular incident and obviously based only on what's alleged. If Sam kerr has acted in this manner whether based on the person being white or not, her alleged derogatory behaviour of referring to someone doing their job as a b*stard or whatever is unacceptable behaviour for anyone never mind a supposed role model in a privileged position of being a professional athlete in the public eye.
Wow. What a car crash of a post.
Right back at ya pal
Well said mate. I’ve followed this thread for the last few days and I think I’m just going to check out of it now. You’ve said everything I think on the matter as well as my disappointment in the behaviour that led to a cabbie having to call the police in the first place.
That's exactly what I think can make racist white people worse. If her alleged behaviour is deemed that she was abusive due to her prejudice of the police man being white then as you say it is racially aggravated and no different than if she had said similar to a policeman of different ethnicity. Just because white people haven't historically been oppressed doesn't mean that someone who potentially prejudices white people is OK to do so. Would it be OK for a carribean or Asian supermarket to refuse to serve white customers on this basis? Or would that be discrimination? Then how is making comments based on a policeman's skin colour OK?
None of this would be happening if she had just said stupid colonizer bastard
I would like to add that there have indeed been white people who were historically oppressed based on racist stereotypes. The Nazis did it with the Slavs.
There is a difference when debating it, but can there be regarding this specific law? If you reference someone’s race during an insult, I’m not sure legally how she can defend it, unless the law says it’s different if it’s used against white people.
I’m Anglo-Irish so I would have taken offence to that even more thanks.
The obvious mistake you’re making here is the view that ‘I don’t find that offensive and no one else should either therefore it is wrong’.
Dangerous stance to start taking in my opinion. Especially the way you are going at it @Pogue Mahone.
Give an opinion, sure, but forcing it on others and making out that don’t understand is unfair just because they see it differently.
And that's recent history as well, Caucasians were enslaved by the Arabs from the Ottoman Empire at one point although probably the numbers of the slave trade conducted by European countries / America was higher because of the upward trend in economic expansion we've seen throughout the world as time passed. Of course we have to acknowledge that minorities like African Americans in the current time are far more impacted by this, because their history with slavery/racism is more recent and they've suffered economically/socially etc. from it more recently - Same goes for minority migrants to Europe/US/Australia from parts of Asia or South America for example as a result of colonialism.
But that doesn't change the fact that insulting absolutely anyone while referring to race isn't racist in our day and age - If I go to India for example (being a country that has suffered from British colonialism), at a point in time when they have strict laws against racism and a fair judiciary, and call a European expat living there a 'pasty white idiot' or something along those lines whilst also being South Asian myself, I am pretty damn sure that person would feel insulted and of course would think it's at least a bit racist
If that person felt it was racist and was offended, he/she has every right to bring that country's laws against me, and the same goes if I insult an Indian there for being Indian / having a particular skin colour or for practicing a certain religion. It doesn't change if I call a white person that in England either - In all of the above situations, what I've said there can be interpreted as racist.
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There is probably a correlation to this.
That said it’s not a new phenomenon so I’m surprised you seem surprised?
I'm not even giving an opinion. More of an explanation. Which shouldn't be needed. Yet here we are.
You very much are. You are suggesting you wouldn’t find it offensive for the following reasons and as such no one else should and therefore that’s the end of it.
I've never really understood why the legal system should be involved in verbal battles unless theres intent to harm. Its not like their limited time and/or resources are well spent on this. Its a petty thing to do though.
I get everything you're saying, as I think most do, but it's still not the same in legal terms. I know lots of police and the shit they get called and done to them is mind boggling. This is a police officer prepared to go to court against a famous person knowing it will bring lots of attention. Maybe I'm wrong but you can't be too thin skinned as a police officer. Will be interesting to see how it plays out very often these stories get more context later, but id lean towards him feeling it was a racial and aggressive confrontation to bother pursuing it
I find it very strange that any white person would be offended by being called a 'white wanker/cnut' or whatever. I'd definitely hate being a 'stupid old wanker/cnut' more, as my age grinds upwards and I get ever more conscious of it.
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How do we actually know she has done anything wrong? I mean can we really give her this trial by social media without knowing the full facts?
It's obviously not OK to say this (any part of what she is supposed to have said), but it's also insane to say there is no difference in a white-majority place between a white person saying 'you black bastard' and a non-white person saying 'you white bastard'. With 'black bastard', there is a long history of white people acting from a position of dominance and perceived superiority, and then pushing down against racialized populations. With 'white bastard', that same history works the other way round, and it's more commonly a reaction to perceived oppression.
Neither is always actually like that and neither comment would be OK (well, responding to opporession is not wrong when it's really that) - but again, assuming it's the exact same sentiment at work is simply wrong.
I went to a very multicultural primary school growing up and remember one of the young girls was bullied by 2 ethnic students. She had snow white skin, freckles and bright red hair. The bullies always made fun of her appearance, called her "red neck houso" (equivalent to white trash) amongst other things. In the end she moved schools because it got too much.
You're fortunate that you've never experienced racism or discrimination. And you're fortunate to have quite thick skin perhaps. But it doesn't mean that other white people don't, or that it's less racist if a white person experiences it.
Being called white is not the same as being called pale or pasty. Especially in a derogatory/abusive context.
I find it strange that so many on here seem to think that racism against white people is acceptable or less racist because white people are less likely to experience discrimination. I personally have experienced racism myself as an Asian woman, but it's never affected me. Doesn't mean another Asian person won't be offended by the same treatment, and they have every right to be.
No we can't and in fact there are at least 3 different versions of what's she's alleged to have said that I've seen so far and she pleaded 'not guilty' so at the moment it's just allegations
Plus why on earth has it taken over a year to charge her?
Lots of questions and grey areas
Im not sure who you are arguing against here or who has said they don’t understand the history and root of discrimination.
I think rightly people are taking issue with certain posters suggesting that because they don’t find something offensive everyone else should be of the same opinion and if they aren’t it’s because they don’t understand or are insensitive.
The whole thing could have been avoided if Kerr didn’t use someone’s ethnicity as a precursor to insulting them. That’s the crux of it really and certainly something I would struggle to defend her over in such circumstances.
Agree with this, it seems an unnecessarily drawn out process.