She allegedly threw up in a taxi when, presumably, a bit pissed and then got into an argument with the taxi driver. Yet the charge isn't drunk and disorderly or whatever the appropriate charge is.
Sam Kerr | Found not guilty of racially aggravated harassment
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She allegedly threw up in a taxi when, presumably, a bit pissed and then got into an argument with the taxi driver. Yet the charge isn't drunk and disorderly or whatever the appropriate charge is.
So to be clear you are saying that calling someone a "white bastard" is not actual racism because white people are not discrimated/disadvantaged/disempowered?
If this is what you're saying, do you not think it is a dangerous road to go down? It muddies the waters and creates an inequality over what can and can't be racism.
If she said what she said, this is interesting because I think what she's allegedly said is enough to prove both subsection 1(a) and (b). She could be exonerated of course if there isn't sufficient evidence (e.g. body cam footage presented in context).
Yes, there is a difference in the gravity (among wider society) of a minority being racially abused versus the majority in a country like the UK, given the historical context in that country - But in the eyes of the law, neither the historical background around racism nor the perceived privilege of a majority race should matter. A court merely should apply 1(a) and (b) and should consider the rest of the subsections.The law is the law whether you're white, black or anything in between and the application of it would be the same if she said it to someone of a minority, as we saw with JT - If the police officer felt he was racially abused he has every every right to press charges, and an impartial court should apply the law based on these subsections.
Racism shouldn't be prefaced with a victim's societal privilege/standing imo - it's still racism whether it's directed towards a wealthy/less wealthy white person in England who may have historically benefitted (indirectly or directly) from the slave trade and colonialism versus a wealthy/less wealthy brown person who didn't get those benefits (or even whose ancestors may have suffered from slavery/colonialism). It's racist if the person you say it to feels it is racist, and they deserve their day in court to prove it.
Yes. If nobody is actually disempowered, usually someone from a minority group, then it is just (potentially) an insult rather than racism in any meaningful way. Or at worse such minor casual racism that it doesn't require such a huge official response and waste of resources.
And rather than dangerous I think context is vital when dealing with such things or actual real/meaningful racism is devalued.
If ever statement involving ethnicity or colour is treated equally then the law truly is an arse.
The idea that a copper felt harrased and racially abused by Kerr is just laughable.
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Yeah but the point of laws is that those laws treat all citizens of a country equally. Us treating an insult against a police officer from an ethnic majority with an adjective referencing their race added to it, as 'just an insult' is not an equal application of the law, because those laws weren't just created to protect minorities in a country right.
Sure society can treat this as a minor offence and not really racism if they want, but then that should not be carried over to our justice systems. And yes, cops probably hear worse insults as part of their jobs - but if this particular cop felt it was racial harassment, he/she has every right to have their day in court while citing the racism laws in their country, which should apply to all citizens in that country.
Look I understand your view on this, and I'm guessing that's partly due to minorities in the UK (or elsewhere in the world) likely encountering racism that causes more tangible effects to their lives, which likely goes unpunished as well - That's all fair enough, however it's also it's also unfair imo to sweep this instance aside because the alleged victim in this instance is a cop from the majority race of their country.
You’ve hit the nail right on the head with your posts. What she’s done is silly, but it’s absolutely nowhere near equivalent to calling someone the n-word, for example.
Who said it is?
What she said was about race. I think she’s stupid to say it and it may well have been minor IN HER HEAD but I don’t like the idea that we get into “this word related to race is acceptable, this one’s not”. That sounds like discrimination in itself.
Anyway, I see a certain poster is now here so this thread will go like the Greenwood one … “my opinion or nothing”.
I disagree, I don't think you can have caveats like this to have true equality. It is just plain racism at the end of the day.
So we let Kerr off this charge. She’s free to continue her career. We just accept that the police have to deal with abusive drunken people as part of there job.
So what happens when an officer from an ethnic minority is called ‘stupid black bastard/cop’. Are we now saying that’s okay too? I mean, skin colour is just a physical characteristic, so is it the same as calling someone ‘stupid ginger bastard’ or ‘stupid blonde woman’?
I feel like I’ve been led down a path at a bit here. I have no particular dislike of Kerr, I’m not ‘woke’ or somebody who is offended by every little derogatory comment. My only point was that by the letter of the law ‘white’ is a racial term and when used in a derogatory context it is every bit as racist as ‘black’ etc. Therefore this case must be dealt with in the same way as that would be, otherwise you start to blur and confuse the boundaries and definitions of what racism is. You can’t have one rule for some and another for others.
Exactly my point too @Wibble
I think you’re conflating two separate things. One, whether she should be punished for abusing a police officer in their line of work. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. Two, whether she should be punished using some specific legislation intended to stamp out racism because she used the adjective “white” while abusing the police officer. Which a few people have taken issue with.
great post.
Incredibly naive of people to think that the law can be cherry picked. Pretending for a second that we know she said it - how dare she. Yes, there is more weight when its the other way around for plenty of non legal reasons, but if she said it then it was dripping in scorn based on her own assumptions of what that man is just because of his skin colour. Utter entitled victim complex behaviour and it shouldnt be normalised. Drunk and vomiting in the back of a taxi, arguing to the point a taxi driver calls the police, then throws the guys skin colour in his face. Its absolutely mental that people would defend it, assuming thats what happened.
A hypothetical scenario here for people who think it doesnt make a difference. Two officers enter a warehouse party made up of mostly black english people. One officer is white, one is black. They're heavily outnumbered and only the white officer gets a violent beating. You dont get to turn around and say, yeah they should be punished for beating an officer, but it wasn't racism.
Police do that every single day of their lives and they are right for doing it.
you seem to be talking about discretion.
What's the difference?
There is no difference though, whether the cops do it or someone else does, still racism yeah? - We don't yet know whether this particular cop has a history of racist behaviour I guess (If he does, he will end up with a bit of egg on his face of course, and you bet Kerr's lawyers will be looking for this - but even if he does, that shouldn't change the outcome for this particular case). We shouldn't attribute previous displays of racism by other cops to this particular cop/case either.
I don't think you disagree with me here in any case, and I do agree with you that cops shouldn't be treated with double standards either, and that we should have fairness to everyone across the whole system.
The difference is somebody has made a complaint in this case, so have a right to be defended by the law and seek a prosecution. A police officer might use discretion where they find a joint on somebody for example, or pull over someone who ran a red light, and decide for variety of reasons based on that specific instance that a prosecution isn't in anybodys interest. Strictly speaking they shouldn't, but as you say, there are many cases where they are right to, and not dragging someone to court or a station actually serves a greater public good
She seems to be a shitty person.
I'm an Asian Australian. Very disappointed in Sam and don't agree at all with the narrative that calling someone a "white bastard" isn't racist. When you verbally abuse someone and mention their race/ethnicity, that's racism. Can't even believe there's a question of it but our world has turned upside down in recent years.
Not that I think it's worth her being charged over it, but she was in another country and broke their laws. The police officer has every right to go after her. Unfortunately it seems like she acted like an entitled celebrity who thought there'd be no consequences to her actions.
Not that I think it's worth her being charged over it, but she was in another country and broke their laws. The police officer has every right to go after her. Unfortunately it seems like she acted like an entitled celebrity who thought there'd be no consequences to her actions.
I think we can all agree with this.
How hard is it to ask the cab driver to pull over so you don’t make a mess in his car? How hard is it to be contrite and apologetic if you do make said mess? Why should it escalate to the point of the police being called? Why insult a police officer who you know will then make life hard for you? Why include the racial slur in the first place? Smacks of entitlement and superiority.
And why act like that when you're a visitor in another country? Show some respect.
This is a great post with the exception of the bolded bit. Would you explain why you don’t think it’s worth somebody who you believe to have commited a racist act being charged with racism?
Im not being funny or having a dig - I think attitudes around this issue are really interesting, and I like to understand different perspectives. As somebody from a similar ethnic background as Sam your opinion would be valued.
A visitor? She's lived here for years, it's her home.
Regardless, don't vomit in cabs or racially abuse anyone, it doesnt matter if you're London or Lisbon or wherever.
It's simple: personally I believe in freedom of speech like they have in US. But I am well aware that UK (and Australia) don't have freedom of speech laws, so you can be prosecuted for what you say, even if your words don't lead to harmful actions or incitement of violence. I don't agree with it as I don't think you should be thrown in jail for something you merely said, but I respect the law and have to trust that it's there for a good reason and for the benefit of society as a whole.
I think the answer to all of this is that she was drunk off her face. Not that it excuses any of it, but it explains the 'why' in this mess.
Sorry I assumed she is on some special work visa as she is Australian (or else won't be a Tilly). She may have dual citizenship or permanent residency I suppose. Though, I saw a headline that she could be deported for this - if so that would suggest she doesn't have any permanent residency and is on a temporary visa.
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That’s a great explanation, thanks for engaging.
Yes and no. Surely even when off your face you know the difference between right and wrong?
The most paralytic I’ve ever been was my 18th birthday. I couldn’t see properly, I was barfing in a heap in shop doorways, I couldn’t stand or speak but I still knew I had to travel home with my head out of the car window when my dad came and scraped me off the street! It’s just a basic understanding of respect.
Also made me determined to not get drunk like that again, stupid disgusting watermelon Breezer.
Racism is Racism regardless of what ethnicity the people involved may be. Stating otherwise because it’s a “white” person on the receiving end therefore not as bad is quite literally discrimination in itself.
the amount of bad takes in this thread is frankly mental. won’t people think of the poor white people living in a predominantly white country! oh the horrors we face!
@Wibble is correct.
@Wibble is correct.
That's just not true though is it. The weight of history, discrimination and power dynamics at play are completely different.
Is calling someone white even considered a slur? I wouldn't have thought so.
Yes and no. Surely even when off your face you know the difference between right and wrong?
The most paralytic I’ve ever been was my 18th birthday. I couldn’t see properly, I was barfing in a heap in shop doorways, I couldn’t stand or speak but I still knew I had to travel home with my head out of the car window when my dad came and scraped me off the street! It’s just a basic understanding of respect.
Also made me determined to not get drunk like that again, stupid disgusting watermelon Breezer.
Yeah, I lived in Australia for a while with their drinking culture and I can’t say most Aussies behave this way either.. I am an Aussie citizen now living in my country of origin, I’d say most of us (and even the drunk-est of us that you may find grazing the shores of Bali) are quite polite with cops and people outside our friend groups even if we are a bit rowdy amongst mates, and we try to make it home before having to throw up or at least tell our Uber driver to pull up on the side of the road - a tactical chunder as we call it
why even reference someone’s skin colour at all? As far as I’m concerned racism is racism and should be judged the same across the board. As soon as you start picking and choosing what is and isn’t deemed racism based on the ethnicities involved then it begins to muddy the waters.
Calling someone black isn’t a slur either though?
It really isn't. It was unwise of course.
Good point
The law doesn't make this distinction though. It doesn't specify that any particular race is exempt. So yes, calling someone a "white bastard" is the same as if she'd called someone a "black bastard" or "Asian bastard".
I think Rapinoe does.
Ive not seen anyone on this thread say she shouldnt be punished (assuming she has acted in this way), but yes Im sure the police do unfortunately have to deal with abusive people (both drunk and sober no doubt) on a daily basis. Im absolutely certain that officers of all colours get abuse based on their skin colour all the time but I highly doubt every one of those instances results in a 'racial harassment' claim.
I dont want to assume too much about what exactly happened since we dont know the details, but something like a 'drunk & disorderly' charge, appropriate fine/community service and a caution seems about right.
I just dont think this case is worth the police time and public money on a 2 year investigation, court trial etc. I think there is a high chance this case gets thrown out before that point anyway, we shall see.