Saha is an ungrateful, disloyal bastard

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Raoul said:
Its a what have you done for me lately world and you haven't won more than a the mickey mouse treble since before the Cold War ended. Sucks to be you. And yes, if the current trend continues we'll be far ahead of you in another few years. :cool:
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"Sucks to be you" :lol:

"if the current trend continues we'll be far ahead of you in another few years. "

The current trend of you winning one European Cup every 30 odd years?

:lol:
 
Liverpool = Huddersfield.

They've also got a great history.....and once were better than us.

Ahhh..... must feel great to be able to look back at the ' good ol days' with fond memories :cool:
 
Your posts are beginning to resemble those of a bitter WUM than someone who's here to banter.

From the top..if the current trend continues we'll have 23 league titles and at least one more CL in the next decade. I think that number will be as high as three, thereby cementing Liverpool as the irrelevant has beens of another era. Sux to be you. :)
 
Raoul said:
Your posts are beginning to resemble those of a bitter WUM than someone who's here to banter.

From the top..if the current trend continues we'll have 23 league titles and at least one more CL in the next decade. I think that number will be as high as three, thereby cementing Liverpool as the irrelevant has beens of another era. Sux to be you. :)
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Oh because you "think" it, that makes it so?

Some things are easy to say, yet your team will find it harder to actually do them.
 
DJS said:
Oh because you "think" it, that makes it so?

Some things are easy to say, yet your team will find it harder to actually do them.
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We've exceeded expectations over the past decade and I'm merely continuing the trend. Don't even try to suggest we're not going to blow right past you in the trophy case. Its just a matter of time and you know it.
 
Suedesi said:
Yeah ok. SO?

And Juve have reached the final four times in the last 8 years.

And Real Madrid have won it 3 times in the last 8 years.

:annoyed:
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And who else has won it more than once in that time?

Face it, United have the second best record of all teams in the last 8 years.
 
WeasteDevil said:
You lot will probably never win one again! :)
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If we dont, it'll still take you half a century to match us.

So easy to dismiss the past, ignoring how influential it is in dictating the present and shaping the future.

This whole argument was based on my opinion that you wont win the CL this season, which i'm perfectly entitled to think. But people cant accept it, resulting in 9 pages of debate.

:D
 
This debate would've ended much earlier if you hadn't made yourself look like a bitter, deluded Liverpool fan who can't come to terms with the fact that United are rapidly gaining trophies.
 
DJS said:
If we dont, it'll still take you half a century to match us.

So easy to dismiss the past, ignoring how influential it is in dictating the present and shaping the future.

This whole argument was based on my opinion that you wont win the CL this season, which i'm perfectly entitled to think. But people cant accept it, resulting in 9 pages of debate.

:D
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So what will you do if we do win it?

Eat your hat? Summat else? ;)
 
What is this thread actually debating now?

Are United much better than Liverpool? Yes, thanx.

Have Liverpool won more trophies in the last 50 years than United? Yes, but who cares?

Are United consistently among the top 5 teams in Europe? Yes, definately.

Fini. :)
 
DJS said:
:D

I'll do the honourable thing - remind you that you've still got another to go.

;)
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Has anyone reminded you recently of our head-to-head statistics? ;)
 
Suedesi said:
Well, you'd be wrong. ;)
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Prove it.

Add up all of the coefficient points gained by each team you think are better than United over 8 years, then add up United's, and make a list.

We'll see! :smirk:
 
Suedesi said:
Can't be bothered to look for the past 8 years... it sounds like a silly benchmark anyway;)
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Silly? The sats from the organisers of the competition? The stats that decide the seedings? The further you get in the competitions, the more wins, etc. the more points you get. Silly?
 
WeasteDevil said:
Silly? The sats from the organisers of the competition? The stats that decide the seedings? The further you get in the competitions, the more wins, etc. the more points you get. Silly?
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I thought that was the last five years innit?

Anyway I offered my proof. Where's yours?
 
Suedesi said:
I thought that was the last five years innit?

Anyway I offered my proof. Where's yours?
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Yes it is from the last 5 years, but if you take the table from each of the past three years, you can get an eight year total. Aint got the time to do it! :p

Anyway, your stats dont compare like with like.
 
WeasteDevil said:
They are silly! :lol:
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Of course they are silly. They are based on the fact that Real, Milan, Bayern, Ajax and Liverpool have won more than Utd. How can that be? :wenger:


Face it dude, Utd are one of the most exciting teams - *EVER*- but other teams *DO* have better records.
 
Suedesi said:
Of course they are silly. They are based on the fact that Real, Milan, Bayern, Ajax and Liverpool have won more than Utd. How can that be? :wenger:
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Errrr, it says:

Based on european cup, national league and cup
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You are not comparing like with like!
 
WeasteDevil said:
Errrr, it says:



You are not comparing like with like!
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Well for one thing United have won more domestically than either Juve or Bayern over the last decade... which means that their European record is even worse off :smirk:

What the feck happened to Valencia last night btw? Have they lost their marbles?
 
Suedesi said:
Well for one thing United have won more domestically than either Juve or Bayern over the last decade... which means that their European record is even worse off :smirk:
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No it doesn't, there is no breakdown of anything there.

Suedesi said:
What the feck happened to Valencia last night btw? Have they lost their marbles?
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Yep! :annoyed:
 
The coefficients need time to work out, because you would have to strip out the country points. Yes, the likes of Barcelona would gain points because of their country's ranking.
 
Then strip out the coefficient points earned by certain teams from the UEFA Cup.

For example, we were 7th in the list of points gained for last year, but some teams got points from the UEFA Cup.
 
From my recoking, over the past 10 years, just comparing United against Juve, Juve have 159 points to United's 144.

However, United gained only 2 of those point from the UEFA Cup. Juventus however gained 33 of theirs from the UEFA Cup.

So, only considering points gained from CL football over the past 10 seasons (including this one up to now), the result is:

Manchester United: 142
Juventus: 126

Here's the link from which I worked this out

Check it, I might have made a mistake! :smirk:

You are dealing with "Team Coefficients"

:)
 
Let's add in Bayern Munich.

Manchester United: 142
Bayern Munich: 130
Juventus: 126

:smirk:
 
Now for Milan!

Manchester United: 142
Bayern Munich: 130
Juventus: 126
AC Milan: 79 :eek:

:lol:
 
Now for the mighty Real Madrid!

Real Madrid: 157
Manchester United: 142
Bayern Munich: 130
Juventus: 126
AC Milan: 79

Don't think that is a big suprise really!
 
Let's put in Liverpool! :D

Real Madrid: 157
Manchester United: 142
Bayern Munich: 130
Juventus: 126
AC Milan: 79
Liverpool: 19 :cool:
 
Right, fact proved. United have been the second most successful club in the European Cup over the past 10 years.

According to UEFA Stats. :D
 
WeasteDevil said:
From my recoking, over the past 10 years, just comparing United against Juve, Juve have 159 points to United's 144.

However, United gained only 2 of those point from the UEFA Cup. Juventus however gained 33 of theirs from the UEFA Cup.

So, only considering points gained from CL football over the past 10 seasons (including this one up to now), the result is:

Manchester United: 142
Juventus: 126

Here's the link from which I worked this out

Check it, I might have made a mistake! :smirk:

You are dealing with "Team Coefficients"

:)
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I'll check the results in my little spreadsheet, and will get back to you.

If yer calculations are ok, then fair do's.
 
I worked it into a nice Excel Sheet, which I can email to you if you'd like:

So the Coefficients are
2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001 1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 TOTAL (10 yrs) in bold

Man Utd 14.5 28.333 30.785 25.083 28.25 23.718 17.892 15.7 4.166 10.666 199.093

Juve 13.375 31.964 20.285 10.906 17 20 23.142 27.071 22.75 28.642 215.135

Bayern 10.214 7.571 29.75 35.531 29.535 22.178 16.5 6.571 28.416 17.083 203.349

Real 14.968 29.75 38.428 31.305 36.285 16 25.214 0 16.5 11.3 219.75

Milan 11.375 33.964 25.285 19.906 12 0 0 11.071 18.75 24.642 156.993

So UTD are the FOURTH most succesful club in Europe over the past 10 years.
 
Not the coefficients, they include 50% of the country's performance (ie. other clubs from the same nation), and it's not our fault that Arse, Pool, Chelseas, etc. are crap in the CL is it?

Do it on the club points alone, and you will get my list.
 
WeasteDevil said:
Not the coefficients, they include 50% of the country's performance (ie. other clubs from the same nation), and it's not our fault that Arse, Pool, Chelseas, etc. are crap in the CL is it?

Do it on the club points alone, and you will get my list.
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Err... how do I do that?
 
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