DJS said:
No, my argument was that Juve find reaching the final easier than United do. I might not have phrased it perfectly, but i know full well what i meant, so i dont need you to tell me what my point was or what i was thinking.
Now then, you seem to agree that Juve find it easier to reach the final than United, and being 'better' at reaching the final surely equates to having a better chance of winning the trophy - which is what i said Juve and Milan have, as opposed to United.
Thanks for finally agreeing with me.
here is a summary of some of your comments made thus far in this thread:
(post #371) In response to weastedevil saying that "United have been the second most successful club in the European Cup over the past 10 years," you say "I'm sure Juve and Milan will settle for that, while glancing proudly at their trophy cabinet."
(post #295) In response to weastedevil saying "We are also the ONLY teams to reach the knockout phases of the competition every season over the last 8 years," you say "Means sod-all mate. Do you get a trophy for reaching the knock out phase?"
by your own definition, reaching a final but not winning (ie: second best) means "sod all" and that is the "trophy cabinet" that truly matters. how exactly do you reconcile this with your new position stating that, despite the fact that juventus and united have an equal amount of champions league trophies, the number of finals juventus has reached (which should be "sod all") is suddenly meaningful? and how is reaching finals an accurate meter of champions league success, when discussing united and juventus - despite reaching many more finals, juventus has not won more titles. ie: finals reached is a poor indicator in this instance.
(post #398) you say "it's not unreasonable to say that (juventus has) PROVEN their ability to last in the competition better than you have." i hope earlier entries in this thread have PROVEN (see, i can use caps, too) this statement to be demonstably false. you probably meant that "lasting better" was solely defined by finals reached - again, i'm quite confused as to the sudden turnaround in regards to teams that do not win trophies. i would think "lasting better" would mean taking hoem a trophy, since everything else means "sod all."
since you previously state that united has a habit of "bottling it" and "capitulating" in the knock-out stage, then mustn't one conclude that juventus does the same in the final (something united certainly does not do)? if you are going to use history as your sole reference, you should probably change you argumentation to "juventus is more likely to reach the final, but united is more likely to win a final, resulting in equivalent odds to win the champions league."
but, you know, this would be employing logic...
