Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
Unfortunately these sorts of things have been happening throughout recorded human history, the fact that it's happening in 2022 is appalling though. Soldiers like this are asking for the same things to be done to them by certain UKR soldiers out for revenge, which won't end well for anyone.
This seems to be a remarkably poorly researched and argued article:
I quoted a Simon Jenkins article in here before and someone kindly pointed out he always says this stuff about Western sanctions.
He doesn't half write some bollocks.
Tbh regarding war crimes against pov's without excusing the Russians I think this will go both ways. Maybe not to the same extent but war turn men into beasts and some just consider it a just revenge.
It’s an opinion piece.
I'd never expect Turkish people to support Russians in a war (any war!), but it seems it is a thing!...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62332847
Ukraine war: Pro-Putin chants cause outrage at Turkish football match
Ukrainian officials have condemned Turkish football fans who chanted Russian leader Vladimir Putin's name at a Champions League clash in Istanbul.
Thousands of Fenerbahce supporters joined in the chant after their team conceded a goal to Ukrainian champions Dynamo Kyiv.
Ukrainian Ambassador Vasyl Bodnar said the incident had "saddened" him deeply.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62332847
Ukraine war: Pro-Putin chants cause outrage at Turkish football match
Ukrainian officials have condemned Turkish football fans who chanted Russian leader Vladimir Putin's name at a Champions League clash in Istanbul.
Thousands of Fenerbahce supporters joined in the chant after their team conceded a goal to Ukrainian champions Dynamo Kyiv.
Ukrainian Ambassador Vasyl Bodnar said the incident had "saddened" him deeply.
A Russian filtration camp where POW's from Azovstal where held has been hit by artillery fire. Russia is claiming that the Ukrainians hit it with HIMARS rockets and are responsible for killing their own soldiers.
This is of course just ridicolous and just more BS from the Russians, the defenders of Azovstal is seen as some of the biggest heroes in the war and it makes no sense why Ukraine would want them dead. The Russians are only doing this to take away publicity from the video that came out yesterday.
That will be spread around the world's media as some kind of legitimate source.
I mean, opinion pieces have been part of newspapers for a very long time. If people can’t figure out what one is at this point, then I wouldn’t know what to tell them.
A lot of people can't even make it past the headlines anymore.
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Simon Jenkins may think it’s a harmless contrarian piece in The Guardian but I’ve seen similarly defeatist pieces by him circulated on pro-Russian social media. Although not as many as those by the lesser Hitchens.
Why wouldn't you expect that? Turkey has a very divided society and there are many arguments for Erdogan being a fascist. I would expect his followers to be very prone to conspiracy theories and all that. And I also believe that many of them are firmly anti-American, anti-EU, etc. To many, that also means being pro-Russia/Putin.
Scumbags.
Another black eye for a country whose football should be part of the AFC and nowhere near anything European.
Why can't we give Ukraine more than 16 Himars when Poland can buy 500? I Don't get it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/28/ukraine-russia-war-himars-missiles/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/28/ukraine-russia-war-himars-missiles/
They were not delivered, not yet bought officially. Do you think they have them on stock in some warehouse?
Because it's not just about giving them the launch platforms, there are other things to consider too. Nato countries could probably without any problem give 100 M142/M270 launchers to Ukraine within a couple of weeks.
The problem is being able to provide them with ammunition, spare parts, educated operators and educated maintenance people. There is no point in having 100 launchers in the country if you can only keep 20 of them with ammunition.
Regarding the 500 Poland is buying, they have not even started the production of these yet and it will be many years before all of them will be delivered. I wouldnt be surprised if it will be after 2030 before the full fleet is operational.
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I know pretty much feck all about these things. I'm just saying that considering their massive importance, a measly 16 doesnt seem much.
Well, Erdogan and his followers are Nationalistic and pro-Muslim, and since Turkey had a lot of wars against Russia, I was expecting them to want Russia to lose this war. But of course, you are right about them being anti-American and anti-EU. I guess they consider the West a bigger enemy than Russia.
Erdogan is milking this conflict dry and so far doing an amazing job at getting favors both from Russia and NATO/U.S., so the internal sentiment of his supporters isn’t rigid in support of either one or another side of the conflict.
Erdogan is hosting American fighter jets and 5,000 American troops at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey so I wouldn't quite chalk up Turkey as anti-American. He is simply using the conflict to shrewdly gain concessions from both sides.
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How is Putin selling his alignment with Iran and Turkey? Internally in Russia, I mean. Or do they just hide it? And of course I mean the following picture.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/20/putin-meeting-iran-turkey-russia-middle-east-syria-ukraine/
I know that Putin has spent a lot of time positioning himself as the grand defender of Christianity (Orthodoxy), with Third Rome allusions, with blessings of arms by the Moscow Patriarch, and so on... and now his best mates are Muslims? Isn't it scandalous for his followers?
I think many Turkish people are anti-Americans and anti-EU. This was true before Erdogan, too. (It has been getting worse with Erdogan, of course. )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism#Turkey
(It is more surprising that there are a lot of anti-Americans in Greece, too. Of course, not as many as in Turkey, but still more than my linking!... )
When your ideology is stitched together worse than the Frankenstein’s monster logical fallacies don’t equate to much — it’s not trying to create a coherent and whole picture that would withstand critical analysis.
As for how do the Muslim thing work — from their point of view it’s more important that all of them stand for traditionalist values with dominant & oppressive social & political institutes. A religious (and, ideally, a zealous) Muslim that doesn’t like Western values, hates LGBT etc. is way easier to deal with than, say, a female Catholic priest from Scandinavia that officiates single-sex marriages (the anti-LGBT sentiment is one of their biggest selling points for the general population).
Yes, there are obviously significant differences between Islam and Orthodox Christianity, but the religious institutions, especially when they are used to strengthen an authoritarian political regime (and vice versa), are similar enough to find that common ground.
Football fans the world over will chant anything at all that they think will wind the opposition up. It might not mean much more than that.
I’m not speaking on the mindset of the author of the piece, I’m speaking on the Guardian printing it in a clearly labeled section called “Opinion”.
Came here expecting the blame to fall on the Russians bombing their own POW camps - was not disappointed. Just like we bombed 8,000 or so civilians since 2014. How convenient.
When did contrarianism become defeatism or got forbid objectivity?
Y’all should do some better recruiting for the Wagner Group. They just keep screwing up.