Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Correcting me if I'm wrong but Russia is trying to occupy by destroying, pillaging, killing and bombarding mostly Russian speaking areas in east and southeast. I read somewhere that in Mariupol people mostly spoke Russian and lot of them were pro Russian. Probably it's not that simply but it is absurd.

Of course they're causing havoc in the entire country by sending devastating rockets and trying to destroy the whole infrastructure but their main thrust is in the east.
 
Real Name said:
Correcting me if I'm wrong but Russia is trying to occupy by destroying, pillaging, killing and bombarding mostly Russian speaking areas in east and southeast. I read somewhere that in Mariupol people mostly spoke Russian and lot of them were pro Russian. Probably it's not that simply but it is absurd.

Of course they're causing havoc in the entire country by sending devastating rockets and trying to destroy the whole infrastructure but their main thrust is in the east.
Click to expand...
It's one of the more puzzling aspects for me. Whoever was pro-Russian in the south and east might wanna rethink their beliefs.
 
frostbite said:
Well, I always believed that to hate Hitler and all that he represents should also mean to stop any Hitlers from gaining power in other places in Europe. Isn't that reasonable? Just sitting aside doing nothing is a form of complicity, isn't it? After all, Hitler rose to power and caused the death of millions only because too many decent people did nothing.


And please stop with Greece, it is silly. Greece has major problems with Turkey (including daily air space violations), Greece is still trying to get out of the 2010 bankruptcy, Greece is too small to help Ukraine in any meaningful way. It is really absurd for Germans today to point to Greece, and expect Greece to lead them! As you say, it is Germany who builds submarines, not Greece. Germany should be offering its submarines to Ukraine, because Germany does not face any dangers today.

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2022/04/27/turkey-record-violations-greece-airspace/"

"Turkish F-16 fighter jets recorded on Wednesday a record of 126 violations of Greek air space and 30 overflights of Greek islands some of them inhabited."
Click to expand...


Most western countries are doing far from nothing. We'd like to see Germany do more but at the moment they are at Russia's mercy economically until they become far independent of Russian oil and gas which is something that takes time. Like I said earlier, it's easy thump your chest when you have nothing to lose by doing so. And in case your wondering I'm not German although my username sounds like it.

Also Hitler was steamrolling Europe. Putin has lost 25% of his fighting force to sit on parts of Eastern and southern Ukraine. He's failed in all his major objectives. If he strikes at Nato countries he won't stand a chance.
 
Putin goes to a famous Russian medium that reads the future, and asks him when he is going to die.

- The same day as the greatest Ukrainian State Holiday.
- Are you sure? asks Putin.
- Yes, I am 100% sure, the medium answers!

Putin pulls out a gun, points it to the medium and tells him:

- Tell me how you know this, or else you are dead.
- Well, it is simple, answers the medium. Any day you die it will become the greatest Ukrainian State Holiday!
 
frostbite said:
But that's how politics work. Germany has 80 million people, and that's why it has a lot of political power in the EU. If Germany in 1945 was split into 10 Germanies, and they were not allowed to re-unify, they would not have as much political power today and we wouldn't talk about them.
Click to expand...
That's what you missed about our history - not becoming a true military power was a condition for the reunification. Especially the UK feared a new dawn of German superpower ambitions and promises to reduce our military were necessary to be able to become a souveign state again and finally get rid of the occupation rules in 1990.
 
stefan92 said:
That's what you missed about our history - not becoming a true military power was a condition for the reunification. Especially the UK feared a new dawn of German superpower ambitions and promises to reduce our military were necessary to be able to become a souveign state again and finally get rid of the occupation rules in 1990.
Click to expand...
Lets be honest here. While all of this is true. It is not the reason for the piss poor state of the german armed forces, the Bundeswehr. The reason for that is, that Germany thought it could have armed forces on the cheap, and spent the money on other things, while enjoying the "peace dividend" and the security umbrella provided by the United states.
 
Gehrman said:
Most western countries are doing far from nothing. We'd like to see Germany do more but at the moment they are at Russia's mercy economically until they become far independent of Russian oil and gas which is something that takes time. Like I said earlier, it's easy thump your chest when you have nothing to lose by doing so. And in case your wondering I'm not German although my username sounds like it.
Click to expand...
While the economic interest in regards to energy imports are obviously one important factor to explain German policy, its hardly the only one. To reduce it to an economic question is missing a lot. The German military is weak especially when it comes to a lack of military equipment. People who follow the German military will know that this was a constant factor during the mission in Afghanistan. Its hard to overstate the extend of it. This isn't some kind of made up excuse. There is a cultural/historic hesitance to exacerbate, escalate or actively participate in a military conflict. e.g. Germany was one of the 5 nations, that abstained from voting in favor of the UN resolution 1973, that started the intervention in Libya. Germany certainly has a preference for multilateral diplomatic approaches.
Germany was involved in the Normandy Format (with France, Russia and Ukraine) since 2014 and tried to facilitate a solution. It failed and depending on one's view one might argue, that this was the wrong approach, but Germany was certainly invested in this.

Germany's policy toward the conflict is overall not that different compared to the policy of other European nations. As far as I can tell the USA hasn't shipped any modern tanks to Ukraine either...
 
frostbite said:
But that's how politics work. Germany has 80 million people, and that's why it has a lot of political power in the EU. If Germany in 1945 was split into 10 Germanies, and they were not allowed to re-unify, they would not have as much political power today and we wouldn't talk about them.

With political power you also have responsibility. Malta does not have the same political power, it also does not have the same political responsibility. That's why nobody talks about what Malta thinks about the Russian invasion. Per capita is important in a "moral sense" for individuals. Per capita is meaningless in international politics.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but that's just a lazy excuse. Germany could say the same about carbon emissions. "We're a small country, we aren't the leverage, look at China and India, they produce much more" ignoring that our per capita emissions are I believe four or five times those of India. This is simply not how it works. So it is a bit rich to criticize our financing of the Russian war when your very own people contributed more to it than the posters you're adressing.

And while I'm also of the opinion that Germany should do more, you'd be better off trying to understand why our leaders are so hesitant. I can only imagine what it would mean for Europe (and probably its arms production as well) if the German chemistry industry collapses for instance. Especially if some of the plants have to be closed for good because such a thing as a production pause doesn't exist. It either keeps running or it is finished.


Tucholsky said:
Lets be honest here. While all of this is true. It is not the reason for the piss poor state of the german armed forces, the Bundeswehr. The reason for that is, that Germany thought it could have armed forces on the cheap, and spent the money on other things, while enjoying the "peace dividend" and the security umbrella provided by the United states.
Click to expand...

This is one perspective. I believe the truth lies somewhere inbetween. The military is extremely unpopular in Germany - or was until the war. That has nothing to do with economic interests, it is just that two generations have been brought up completely anti war and anti military. On the other hand, I'm fully sure that the peace dividend is another "incentive" to think that way. Our dependence on Russian gas is a good example of that. People are genuinely for peace and trade but it's easier to convince yourself that trading with Russia will bring it closer to the West if you profit from it financially.

But even shortly after Trump's election, many people acknowledged that he had a point regarding the defense budget - and not the usual suspects from the right wing but people who generally despised him. It is a bit like "yeah, the clothes I wear were produced in Bangladesh but actually these factories are very important for the country on its way to grow economically". While you might have a point, you're making it (partly) out of the wrong motives, pointing a blind eye to the negative aspects of it.
 
frostbite said:
Putin goes to a famous Russian medium that reads the future, and asks him when he is going to die.

- The same day as the greatest Ukrainian State Holiday.
- Are you sure? asks Putin.
- Yes, I am 100% sure, the medium answers!

Putin pulls out a gun, points it to the medium and tells him:

- Tell me how you know this, or else you are dead.
- Well, it is simple, answers the medium. Any day you die it will become the greatest Ukrainian State Holiday!
Click to expand...
The thread for terrible jokes is in the General Forum.
 
Ukraine war: CIA chief says no intelligence that Putin is in bad health

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62246914

There is no intelligence that Vladimir Putin is unstable or in bad health, the director of the CIA has said.

There has been increasing unconfirmed media speculation that Mr Putin, who turns 70 this year, may be suffering from ill health, possibly cancer.

But William Burns said there was no evidence to suggest this, joking that he appeared "too healthy".

The Kremlin has again dismissed the reports of Mr Putin's ill-health as "nothing but fakes".

It came as the US announced it would provide Ukraine with more long-range weapons.
 
frostbite said:
German apologists en masse. It is sad. If you really care about Germany's honor, you should be the first to demand that Germany takes a leadership position in this war. It is the first major war in Europe after WW2 and Germany can be the leader of the good guys!
Click to expand...

This is an ignorant comment in itself.
 
Total losses of Russian forces (February 24, 2022 - July 20, 2022):

Human casualties:
~156,000 total
~38,750 killed
~116,250 wounded
~1,000 prisoners of war
221 Aircraft
188 Helicopters
1,700 tanks
3,905 APVs
856 artillery systems
250 MLRS units
113 anti-aircraft defence systems
2,775 vehicles and fuel tanks
703 UAVs
70 units of special equipment
15 sea vessels
167 cruise missiles


Source: Ukraine General Staff

https://uvji.substack.com/p/072022-military
 
"Troika" trending in Portugal. People are loving being asked to show solidarity to Germany after being fecked during the last crisis. Portuguese PM saying we're not going to reduce gas consumption.
 
Russia about to run out of steam in Ukraine - MI6 chief

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62259179

Russia will struggle to maintain its military campaign and Ukraine may be able to hit back, the head Britain's foreign intelligence service says.

MI6 chief Richard Moore said Russia had seen "epic fails" in its initial goals; removing Ukraine's president, capturing Kyiv and sowing disunity in the West.

He was speaking at the Aspen Security Forum, in a rare public appearance.

He called the invasion "the most egregious naked act of aggression... in Europe since the Second World War."

He said recent Russian gains were "tiny" and that Russia was "about to run out of steam".

"Our assessment is that the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to find manpower and materiel over the next few weeks," Mr Moore told the conference in Colorado. "They will have to pause in some way and that will give the Ukrainians the opportunity to strike back."

That view may be seen as optimistic and Ukraine's ability to counter-attack may well depend on greater supplies of Western weaponry, which its officials say has often been too slow in arriving.

The MI6 chief said some kind of battlefield success would be an "important reminder to the rest of Europe that this is a winnable campaign" - particularly ahead of a winter which was likely to see pressure on gas supplies.

"We are in for a tough time," he said. A further reason to maintain support to help the Ukrainians win, or "at least negotiate from a position of significant strength", he said, was because China's leader Xi Jinping was "watching like a hawk".

"There's no evidence that [President Vladimir] Putin is suffering from ill-health," he replied when asked, echoing comments from his US counterpart CIA Director William Burns at the Forum yesterday.

Around 400 Russian intelligence officers operating under cover have been expelled across Europe, he said, reducing Russia's ability to spy in the continent by half.

"Our door is always open," he said when it came to recruiting disaffected Russian officials to spy for Britain.
 


Ivan, 31, who requested anonymity to protect his safety, said he received just five days of training before being transferred to Ukraine and flung into combat.

“There was a soldier in our company who didn’t know how a machine gun works. So I taught that guy how to disassemble and assemble a machine gun. I wouldn’t want to be next to him in battle. How can you fight like that?” he told The Moscow Times.
Click to expand...


“I was shocked. Some have not properly held a machine gun in their hands, have never seen real tanks in person, and they’re leaving for the frontline in a couple of days,” one anonymous soldier said last month in an interview with the BBC Russian Service.
Click to expand...


Yevgeny Chubarin, 24, was killed in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region just four days after being transferred to the Belgorod military base on a three-month contract with the Russian military, independent news outlet Mediazona reported last month. “There was no training,” his mother Nina Chubarina told Mediazona. ”They arrived, got a uniform and a machine gun — and that’s it, go ahead.”
Click to expand...
 
frostbite said:
"I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing" concerning their politics on the Russia - Ukraine war so far.

Do you disagree? Do you see any major differences?
Click to expand...
Rather: can you point to some analysis, articles, or quotes that demonstrate how alike they are? Cause I know Dutch news quite well and think the Dutch government has been a lot more outspoken about its support for Ukraine.

(I am not sure in terms of material support, since the Dutch government hasn't been very forthcoming with that info. And anyway, the Dutch military is also severely underfunded, with mission readiness already at risk.)
 
Gehrman said:
Nuclear power plants only help with electricity. The Russian gas is mainly used for heating.

https://www.politico.eu/article/gas-crisis-germany-nuclear-power-debate/
Click to expand...

It may because where I come from and because a country that ranks high in my interests (i.e. Japan) do things a certain way, but I have a hard time understand how there can be such a clear cut separation between electricity and heating when energy sources of choice can do both (hydroelectricity in Quebec; nuclear in Japan) albeit at various percentages. In any case, there must be a reversal and an expansion regarding German nuclear energy because necessity will demand those down the road.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
It may because where I come from and because a country that ranks high in my interests (i.e. Japan) do things a certain way, but I have a hard time understand how there can be such a clear cut separation between electricity and heating when energy sources of choice can do both (hydroelectricity in Quebec; nuclear in Japan) albeit at various percentages. In any case, there must be a reversal and an expansion regarding German nuclear energy because necessity will demand those down the road.
Click to expand...
The problem is that most houses have a gas heating installed - they can't switch to anything electricity based quickly as they would have to install a complete new system. Therefore German houses usually have connection to both grids - gas and electricity. Take the gas away and you have massive trouble.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
It may because where I come from and because a country that ranks high in my interests (i.e. Japan) do things a certain way, but I have a hard time understand how there can be such a clear cut separation between electricity and heating when energy sources of choice can do both (hydroelectricity in Quebec; nuclear in Japan) albeit at various percentages. In any case, there must be a reversal and an expansion regarding German nuclear energy because necessity will demand those down the road.
Click to expand...
They can only do both if the infrastructure is already in place in housing, as noted above.

Also worth noting is they are including industrial processes in ‘heating’ but gas as a feedstock for chemical plants can be a much different animal than heating homes.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
They can only do both if the infrastructure is already in place in housing, as noted above.

Also worth noting is they are including industrial processes in ‘heating’ but gas as a feedstock for chemical plants can be a much different animal than heating homes.
Click to expand...
Last point being crucial with Germany's massive chemical industry

All that said, the nuclear power plants would still help making sure as little gas as possible has to be used for electricity
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
It may because where I come from and because a country that ranks high in my interests (i.e. Japan) do things a certain way, but I have a hard time understand how there can be such a clear cut separation between electricity and heating when energy sources of choice can do both (hydroelectricity in Quebec; nuclear in Japan) albeit at various percentages. In any case, there must be a reversal and an expansion regarding German nuclear energy because necessity will demand those down the road.
Click to expand...

I'm by any means not an expert. I'm just referring to authority.
 

How embarrassing. How many life lessons do you need? Russia is only interested in humiliating and blackmail but Germany still falls for these tricks instead of taking a stance and not making itself a joke in front of the European partners. Not only that but they have also pressed Canada to disregard the sanctions for this to happen.
 
stefan92 said:
The problem is that most houses have a gas heating installed - they can't switch to anything electricity based quickly as they would have to install a complete new system. Therefore German houses usually have connection to both grids - gas and electricity. Take the gas away and you have massive trouble.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this way you can at least keep the lid on the electricity prices which are expected to be very high now in Germany when looking at the futures market. Mental policy.
 
Rajma said:

How embarrassing. How many life lessons do you need? Russia is only interested in humiliating and blackmail but Germany still falls for these tricks instead of taking a stance and not making itself a joke in front of the European partners. Not only that but they have also pressed Canada to disregard the sanctions for this to happen.
Click to expand...

I remember reading about 10 years ago that Germany had almost gone 100% on renewables for a day or something to that effect - what on earth happened to all that investment?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I remember reading about 10 years ago that Germany had almost gone 100% on renewables for a day or something to that effect - what on earth happened to all that investment?
Click to expand...

While renewable, powering things with laughter from Germans is not really sustainable. A day a decade sounds about right. :wenger:
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I remember reading about 10 years ago that Germany had almost gone 100% on renewables for a day or something to that effect - what on earth happened to all that investment?
Click to expand...
I don't think it lasted the whole day. This is from 2018...

" Germany has crossed a symbolic milestone in its energy transition by briefly covering around 100 percent of electricity use with renewables for the first time ever on 1 January. In the whole of last year, the world’s fourth largest economy produced a record 36.1 percent of its total power needs with renewable sources."

"At around 6:00 am on 1 January, a combination of strong winds and low demand after New Year's Eve celebrations meant that wind power alone produced about 85 percent of Germany’s power consumption, according to data provided by the Federal Network Agency. Hydropower and biomass installations covered the rest, as there was no solar power generation before sunrise.

Coal, gas and nuclear power generation was cut to a minimum as power prices turned negative and surplus energy was exported to neighbouring countries."
 
Counterfactual said:
I don't think it lasted the whole day. This is from 2018...

" Germany has crossed a symbolic milestone in its energy transition by briefly covering around 100 percent of electricity use with renewables for the first time ever on 1 January. In the whole of last year, the world’s fourth largest economy produced a record 36.1 percent of its total power needs with renewable sources."

"At around 6:00 am on 1 January, a combination of strong winds and low demand after New Year's Eve celebrations meant that wind power alone produced about 85 percent of Germany’s power consumption, according to data provided by the Federal Network Agency. Hydropower and biomass installations covered the rest, as there was no solar power generation before sunrise.

Coal, gas and nuclear power generation was cut to a minimum as power prices turned negative and surplus energy was exported to neighbouring countries."
Click to expand...
Yh it would have been around 2012 so a fair bit earlier than that. It might have just been a random demonstration for a day but I do recall them being so far ahead of most other countries for wind and solar and then they, somewhat ironically now, ended up producing so much wind energy surplus they decided to cut back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.