Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

frostbite said:
I haven't seen this list before. Can you link the source?

From that list, we know about China, UK has been helping Ukraine a lot since February, and I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing. It is just a waste of time to type "Germany and Netherlands" (and France and Italy) all the time. After all, Netherlands has about one fifth of the German population and their political clout in the EU is about that percentage, too. That's why I don't really care much about Netherlands. Germany, France and Italy are the big guns in EU, and all three have done very little to help Ukraine, compared to their wealth.

Please stop with the German apologists, it is boring. Germany has been doing too little to help Ukraine. They should be doing more. There are no excuses any more. There is no reason that America should be the main power helping Ukraine, the EU is quite rich, they should be doing much more and Germany should be the leader in that because it is the richest country in Europe.
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:lol:
 
And let me add that, in my opinion, Putin is an autocrat who came to power with popular vote and he really reminds me of Hitler. This is one of the reasons that I'd expect Germans to be extra sensitive about this war and become the LEADERS in helping Ukraine beat Russia. The leaders! Not Netherlands, not Italy, not France, not UK, not USA. Germany should be the leaders in this, exactly because of their history.
 
frostbite said:
I haven't seen this list before. Can you link the source?

From that list, we know about China, UK has been helping Ukraine a lot since February, and I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing. It is just a waste of time to type "Germany and Netherlands" (and France and Italy) all the time. After all, Netherlands has about one fifth of the German population and their political clout in the EU is about that percentage, too. That's why I don't really care much about Netherlands. Germany, France and Italy are the big guns in EU, and all three have done very little to help Ukraine, compared to their wealth.

Please stop with the German apologists, it is boring. Germany has been doing too little to help Ukraine. They should be doing more. There are no excuses any more. There is no reason that America should be the main power helping Ukraine, the EU is quite rich, they should be doing much more and Germany should be the leader in that because it is the richest country in Europe.
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You're my favorite poster, this is great.

COMTRADE.

Also, unless you forgot (I told you this when I told you what you've apparently never seen before), you Greeks are one of the biggest funders of Russia per capita.
 
NotThatSoph said:
You're my favorite poster, this is great.

COMTRADE.

Also, unless you forgot (I told you this when I told you what you've apparently never seen before), you Greeks are one of the biggest funders of Russia per capita.
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But who gives a fart about Greece? Greece has zero military production, they only buy stuff.

Germany is in leadership position. EU looks up to Germany, not to Greece.

I want Germany to be the FIRST to give heavy weapons to Ukraine. I want Germany to press Netherlands and France to do more to help Ukraine. I want to hear Scholz complain that Biden is doing too little.
 
frostbite said:
But who gives a fart about Greece? Greece has zero military production, they only buy stuff.

Germany is in leadership position. EU looks up to Germany, not to Greece.

I want Germany to be the FIRST to give heavy weapons to Ukraine. I want Germany to press Netherlands and France to do more to help Ukraine. I want to hear Scholz complain that Biden is doing too little.
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Well if Greece buys stuff from Russia isnt it that they fund Russian war machine?
 
Apart from the UK (surprisingly), the entire western and southern Europe has been a disgrace in handling it, it's unfair to single out specific countries. The only vocal countries have been the ones which never believed that Russia has changed and always saw their true face. Unfortunately none of those countries have a strong voice in Europe because it's being led by spineless sellouts.
 
Real Name said:
Well Dutch language does sound a bit like broken German to be far, so there's that.
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For southern europeans, Germany and Netherlands have the same political positions in the EU, for almost all aspects that affect southern europe.

It is really hard to imagine that Germany gives a lot of heavy weapons to Ukraine and then Netherlands do nothing to help. Germany would make sure that Netherlands would contribute their fair share. So, Germany is the key, the Netherlands are secondary.
 
Real Name said:
Well if Greece buys stuff from Russia isnt it that they fund Russian war machine?
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Yes, if it is true. I don't really believe that Greece is buying per capita more stuff from Russia than anyone else, do you have any numbers with links? Both per capita and the absolute numbers.
 
German apologists en masse. It is sad. If you really care about Germany's honor, you should be the first to demand that Germany takes a leadership position in this war. It is the first major war in Europe after WW2 and Germany can be the leader of the good guys!
 
frostbite said:
Yes, if it is true. I don't really believe that Greece is buying per capita more stuff from Russia than anyone else, do you have any numbers with links? Both per capita and the absolute numbers.
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Again, I've shown you this before. Source is still COMTRADE.

YUHPsem.png
 
frostbite said:
But you don't have a link?
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The link? It's a database, I gave you the database.You can check it yourself. Or, you can use something like tradingeconomics to check each country, like e.g. Greece, and then you can check other countries to compare. I did that for you.
 
One thing to note with all these economic statistics being posted, they are all from pre- February 24th, they don't show what each country has done to cut down money flows to Russia after the latest invasion. We will have to wait until next year for the 2022 statistics, to get a better idea of who is doing what.
 
Here are some numbers. I don't know if these numbers are correct, but I have a link. Germany is the clear leader at 24 billion.

https://beyond-coal.eu/russian-fossil-fuel-tracker/

GERMANY
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €24116m (data for 2019)
Coal: €1562m
Oil: €14641m
Gas: €7913m

GREECE
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €3636m (data for 2019)
Coal: €22m
Oil: €2924m
Gas: €690m

NETHERLANDS
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €13489m (data for 2021)
Coal: €441m
Oil: €11683m
Gas: €1365m

AUSTRIA
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €2093m (data for 2019)
Coal: €118m
Oil: €219m
Gas: €1757m

ITALY
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €14304m (data for 2021)
Coal: €738m
Oil: €3771m
Gas: €9795m

FRANCE
Total spent on Russian fossil fuels: €8173m (data for 2019)
Coal: €347m
Oil: €5685m
Gas: €2140m
 
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frostbite said:
German apologists en masse. It is sad. If you really care about Germany's honor, you should be the first to demand that Germany takes a leadership position in this war. It is the first major war in Europe after WW2 and Germany can be the leader of the good guys!
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Mate, your comment on the Netherlands just proves how ignorant you are regarding this whole topic.

I, too, wished Germany and especially Scholz would be more determined. But unfortunately, there's no point in discussing it with you.
 
And one word about "per capita":

If Malta is the greatest importer per capita of Russian fuel and China is the lowest, does this mean that Malta is the Russian enabler and China is innocent?
 
Zehner said:
Mate, your comment on the Netherlands just proves how ignorant you are regarding this whole topic.

I, too, wished Germany and especially Scholz would be more determined. But unfortunately, there's no point in discussing it with you.
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Which one is "ignorant"? That I consider the German and the Netherland politics about the same (concerning both Southern Europe and Ukraine-Russia) and that the Netherlands are not very important in the EU when compared to Germany? Do you really disagree with this opinion?
 
frostbite said:
And one word about "per capita":

If Malta is the greatest importer per capita of Russian fuel and China is the lowest, does this mean that Malta is the Russian enabler and China is innocent?
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That's such a stupid argument. Of course a country with more people needs more gas. If you have the highest carbon emissions per capita in the world, you obviously have to lower that, too, even if you're low on population. Especially coming from somebody who's been all over Germany from the very beginning, this is just hypocrisy of the highest order.
 
frostbite said:
Which one is "ignorant"? That I consider the German and the Netherland politics about the same (concerning both Southern Europe and Ukraine-Russia) and that the Netherlands are not very important in the EU when compared to Germany? Do you really disagree with this view?
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Yes, because both are sovereign countries with elected governments completely independent of each other. Ironically, even if unintended, your words are a bit reminiscent of how people thought of Ukraine as an extension of Russia. It is disrespectful to not treat sovereign countries for what they are.
 
frostbite said:
And let me add that, in my opinion, Putin is an autocrat who came to power with popular vote and he really reminds me of Hitler. This is one of the reasons that I'd expect Germans to be extra sensitive about this war and become the LEADERS in helping Ukraine beat Russia. The leaders! Not Netherlands, not Italy, not France, not UK, not USA. Germany should be the leaders in this, exactly because of their history.
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Yeah you see that's the problem... After Hitler the whole country was reeducated to not to want war. "The world" can't complain that a country doesn't really join a war when it has made this country to not want to join a war.

Nonetheless we Germans should do more, but I always think it's funny that people demand Germany to be a military superpower who just a few years ago feared a strong German military.

And directed at you @frostbite : why don't you demand that your goverments for example gives some of your German built U212 submarines to Ukraine? They surely would have a field day hunting down the Russian Black Sea Fleet
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
If the Japanese government managed to make a u-turn and finally stick the 2 fingers up to the OTT homegrown anti-nuclear uproar after Fukushima, it shouldn't be that hard for the German government to reactivate their own nuclear power plants. Better that than relying on coal (THAT is the epitome of stupid) and other foreign fossil fuels.

Those so-called Greens have betrayed the environment by supporting a return to coal rather than going for a far easier option that would reduce dependence on polutting sources of energy, especially Russian oil and gas.
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Nuclear power plants only help with electricity. The Russian gas is mainly used for heating.

https://www.politico.eu/article/gas-crisis-germany-nuclear-power-debate/
 
stefan92 said:
Yeah you see that's the problem... After Hitler the whole country was reeducated to not to want war. "The world" can't complain that a country doesn't really join a war when it has made this country to not want to join a war.

Nonetheless we Germans should do more, but I always think it's funny that people demand Germany to be a military superpower who just a few years ago feared a strong German military.

And directed at you @frostbite : why don't you demand that your goverments for example gives some of your German built U212 submarines to Ukraine? They surely would have a field day hunting down the Russian Black Sea Fleet
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Well, I always believed that to hate Hitler and all that he represents should also mean to stop any Hitlers from gaining power in other places in Europe. Isn't that reasonable? Just sitting aside doing nothing is a form of complicity, isn't it? After all, Hitler rose to power and caused the death of millions only because too many decent people did nothing.


And please stop with Greece, it is silly. Greece has major problems with Turkey (including daily air space violations), Greece is still trying to get out of the 2010 bankruptcy, Greece is too small to help Ukraine in any meaningful way. It is really absurd for Germans today to point to Greece, and expect Greece to lead them! As you say, it is Germany who builds submarines, not Greece. Germany should be offering its submarines to Ukraine, because Germany does not face any dangers today.

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2022/04/27/turkey-record-violations-greece-airspace/"

"Turkish F-16 fighter jets recorded on Wednesday a record of 126 violations of Greek air space and 30 overflights of Greek islands some of them inhabited."
 
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Zehner said:
That's such a stupid argument. Of course a country with more people needs more gas. If you have the highest carbon emissions per capita in the world, you obviously have to lower that, too, even if you're low on population. Especially coming from somebody who's been all over Germany from the very beginning, this is just hypocrisy of the highest order.
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But that's how politics work. Germany has 80 million people, and that's why it has a lot of political power in the EU. If Germany in 1945 was split into 10 Germanies, and they were not allowed to re-unify, they would not have as much political power today and we wouldn't talk about them.

With political power you also have responsibility. Malta does not have the same political power, it also does not have the same political responsibility. That's why nobody talks about what Malta thinks about the Russian invasion. Per capita is important in a "moral sense" for individuals. Per capita is meaningless in international politics.
 
the hea said:
The 16% used for electricity is still quite a lot of gas and with the shutting down of the remaining nuclear plants, Germanys dependency on coal and gas for generating electricity will only increas, at least in the short term.
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I don't disagree that is massively stupid of Germany to shut down it's remaning powerplants, its just that it reopening them won't have as much an impact as some posters here want to believe.

" Thirdly, fuel for the reactors would have to be purchased taking up more time and, most importantly, "nuclear power plants produce 6 percent of electricity and, according to various studies, can only replace 1 percent of gas consumption," Kemfert concluded."
 
frostbite said:
Well, I always believed that to hate Hitler and all that he represents should also mean to stop any Hitlers from gaining power in other places in Europe. Isn't that reasonable? Just sitting aside doing nothing is a form of complicity, isn't it? After all, Hitler rose to power and caused the death of millions only because too many decent people did nothing.


And please stop with Greece, it is silly. Greece has major problems with Turkey (including daily air space violations), Greece is still trying to get out of the 2010 bankruptcy, Greece is too small to help Ukraine in any meaningful way. It is really absurd for Germans today to point to Greece, and expect Greece to lead them! As you say, it is Germany who builds submarines, not Greece. Germany should be offering its submarines to Ukraine, because Germany does not face any dangers today.

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2022/04/27/turkey-record-violations-greece-airspace/"

"Turkish F-16 fighter jets recorded on Wednesday a record of 126 violations of Greek air space and 30 overflights of Greek islands some of them inhabited."
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Ok, mabey not militarily.
But how about stopping the shady dealings of the greek shipping and tanker industry with russian oil?
You know actually stop to fund the russian war machine?

https://www.businessinsider.com/gre...t-from-transporting-russian-oil-report-2022-6
https://www.tradewindsnews.com/tank...cord-as-tanker-transfers-increase/2-1-1223272
 
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