Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

That makes as much sense as saying that if Ukraine can put someone on trial legitimately, find them guilty, and send then to jail, then they could also do it to someone who doesn’t deserve it – and therefore shouldn’t do it at all?

No, that's not the same at all. Some things are just not something the state should have the power to do. Sentence someone to death, for example. Or take away someone's right to vote. Or take away their citizenship.

If I say I don't think prisoners should receive early release in exchange for donating organs, that doesn't mean I must think there should be no early release based on good behaviour either. They're not the same thing.
 
No, that's not the same at all. Some things are just not something the state should have the power to do. Sentence someone to death, for example. Or take away someone's right to vote. Or take away their citizenship.

If I say I don't think prisoners should receive early release in exchange for donating organs, that doesn't mean I must think there should be no early release based on good behaviour either. They're not the same thing.
Why shouldn’t a state be allowed to strip your citizenship, especially if you have pursued holding multiple citizenships and/or the equivalent of indefinite leave to remain in another country?
 
Why shouldn’t a state be allowed to strip your citizenship, especially if you have pursued holding multiple citizenships and/or the equivalent of indefinite leave to remain in another country?

The current UK Government is a good exhibit for why it is a bad idea. The power is generally used against migrants and people of colour in the UK too. I could have my citizenship stripped because I am (in principle) eligible for Irish citizenship.

But the power could not be used against me if my grandparents were born in the UK, no matter what I did or what crime I committed.
 
Why shouldn’t a state be allowed to strip your citizenship, especially if you have pursued holding multiple citizenships and/or the equivalent of indefinite leave to remain in another country?

Because once you're a citizen you're a citizen, IMO. You can voluntarily give it up, but it shouldn't be taken from you. To me it just becomes too powerful a tool for a government. Laws can obviously be abused as well, to your earlier point, but at least that takes a complicit legislature.
 


Very weird formulation, it reads like he's claiming some connection between the better than feared recession and the central bank's decision to slash rates, while the actual facts only make sense if he's reporting two distinct things. If anything, choosing to cut rates while inflation is high indicates that they're worried about the economy, though it's a bit more noise here considering they increased so much after the invasion.
 
Are Poland sending 500 Himars? I don't get that 12 is all the west could muster so far.

They cost 5.3m a pop. Also note that technology moves so swiftly that no general can predict what would actually work in war and what's not. That happened in WW1 and WW2 were generals expected a totally different war to the one they fought. It also happening the same in Ukraine were Russian cutting edge technology failed and are now reduced to the good old artillery
 
They cost 5.3m a pop. Also note that technology moves so swiftly that no general can predict what would actually work in war and what's not. That happened in WW1 and WW2 were generals expected a totally different war to the one they fought. It also happening the same in Ukraine were Russian cutting edge technology failed and are now reduced to the good old artillery

Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.
 
Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.

I *think* Russia's stockpile of artillery dwarfs that of all other nations. I don't think Western European militaries have many at all.
 
Are Poland sending 500 Himars? I don't get that 12 is all the west could muster so far.
It's not only a question about giving the launchers to Ukraine. You need to be able to provide them with ammunition too, the logistics of getting the ammunition into Ukraine needs to be there, then all the ammunition needs to be transported to the front, there is no point having 100 launchers driving around without ammunition. Spare parts will also be needed and maintenence people will need to be educated. All of these things needs to be solved before it's any point getting the launchers on the ground.
 
Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.

The West counters artillery with Air Force, so it does not need huge artillery stockpiles. NATO Air Force capabilities are much higher that Russia's, and NATO would probably gain air superiority quite soon if there was a direct confrontation. Unfortunately, Ukraine does not have an Air Force, so it lacks the main NATO weapon against artillery.
 
I *think* Russia's stockpile of artillery dwarfs that of all other nations. I don't think Western European militaries have many at all.
That is mainly because of how different the western artillery doctrine is to the Russian, especially when we talk about rocket artillery.

Soviet and Russian Artillery doctrine is mainly based on quantity. Hitting massive areas on the enemy front lines with huge numbers of fairly chep and inaccurate munitions.

The artillery doctrine of most western countrys is almost the exact opposite. it relies on high precision and long range, against key targets like ammunition and fuel storages, command posts, radar sites and so on.
 
Seriously?
Yes, but this isn't news. Poland is in the process of acquiring customized HIMARS systems (most important change the integration on Polish made trucks instead of the standard US model) since 2017, originally they wanted about 160 units. Two months ago they announced they will be acquiring "up to 500" systems. This would give Poland the numerically strongest rocket artillery in NATO and looking at how effective the HIMARS systems are compared to the smaller Russian models maybe effectively, but not in numbers, even in the world
 


Hope voters in the US come to realise which country the Republicans really want to "make great again".
 
Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.
In addition to what others have pointed out in differences of military doctrine, many nations use different size shells so they didn’t have stockpiles of ammo to send and some of those that did could not be arsed to help. So now we’re replacing their artillery with whole new systems which is an order of magnitude more complicated.

You could still criticize the US for dragging its feet in giving out the real good stuff, but we’re sort of rebuilding an army with updated equipment on the fly which is quite a task. Funnily enough one of the best examples of such a feat would be the Soviets rebuilding much of their army while holding the line against the Nazis with some help from, naturally, the US.
 
If ukraine starts taking land back, how long before putin uses bigger weapons? Surely he won't just lose, right?
 
If ukraine starts taking land back, how long before putin uses bigger weapons? Surely he won't just lose, right?
It would be "mobilization " first, forcing millions to join the armed forces, before risking more controversial options, I would think. Overwhelm them with ground forces.

When the Russians first started talking about nukes at the start of the invasion the US said they would respond proportionally, though most likely not with a nuclear response, as the US has many more options, and they don't want to escalate. So that's good, it makes the move one that won't help Russia on the ground.

Russia would only potentially be using small tactical nukes as a desperate last measure, and even then I think it's unlikely, because the world would surely condemn them on mass and isolate them as completely as possible.
 
Is there any analysis or news on local collaboration with the Russians in Kherson?
 
If ukraine starts taking land back, how long before putin uses bigger weapons? Surely he won't just lose, right?
don't think russia is losing the war. might see ebbs and flows but ukraine isn't winning.
Ukraine’s backers have proposed two pathways to victory. The first leads through Ukraine. With help from the West, the argument runs, Ukraine can defeat Russia on the battlefield, either depleting its forces through attrition or shrewdly outmaneuvering it. The second path runs through Moscow. With some combination of battlefield gains and economic pressure, the West can convince Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the war—or convince someone in his circle to forcibly replace him.


But both theories of victory rest on shaky foundations. In Ukraine, the Russian army is likely strong enough to defend most of its gains. In Russia, the economy is autonomous enough and Putin’s grip tight enough that the president cannot be coerced into giving up those gains, either. The most likely outcome of the current strategy, then, is not a Ukrainian triumph but a long, bloody, and ultimately indecisive war. A drawn-out conflict would be costly not only in terms of the loss of human life and economic damage but also in terms of escalation—including the potential use of nuclear weapons.


Ukraine’s leaders and its backers speak as if victory is just around the corner. But that view increasingly appears to be a fantasy. Ukraine and the West should therefore reconsider their ambitions and shift from a strategy of winning the war toward a more realistic approach: finding a diplomatic compromise that ends the fighting.


Victory on the battlefield?


Many in the West contend that the war can be won on the ground. In this scenario, Ukraine would destroy the Russian army’s combat power, causing Russian forces to retreat or collapse. Early on during the war, boosters of Ukraine argued that Russia could be defeated through attrition. Simple math seemed to tell the story of a Russian army on the verge of collapse. In April, the British defense ministry estimated that 15,000 Russian soldiers had died in Ukraine. Assuming that the number of wounded was three times as high, which was the average experience during World War II, that would imply that roughly 60,000 Russians had been knocked out of commission. Initial Western estimates put the size of the frontline Russian force in Ukraine at 120 battalion tactical groups, which would total at most 120,000 people. If these casualty estimates were correct, the strength of most Russian combat units would have fallen below 50 percent, a figure that experts suggest renders a combat unit at least temporarily ineffective.


These early estimates now look overly optimistic. If they were accurate, the Russian army ought to have collapsed by now. Instead, it has managed slow but steady gains in the Donbas. Although it is possible that the attrition theory could one day prove correct, that seems unlikely. The Russians appear to have suffered fewer losses than many thought or have nonetheless found a way to keep many of their units up to fighting strength. One way or another, they are finding reserves, despite their stated unwillingness to send recent conscripts or mobilized reservists to the front. And if push came to shove, they could abandon that reluctance.

If the collapse-through-attrition theory seems to have failed the test of battle already, there is another option: the Ukrainians could outmaneuver the Russians. Ukraine’s forces could beat the enemy in mechanized warfare, with tanks and accompanying infantry and artillery, just as Israel beat its Arab enemies in the 1967 Six-Day War and the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Neither Russia nor Ukraine has sufficient mechanized combat units to densely defend their vast fronts, which means in principle that either side should be vulnerable to rapid, hard-hitting mechanized attacks. So far, however, neither side appears to have resorted to such tactics. Russia may be finding that it cannot concentrate forces for such attacks without being observed by Western intelligence, and Ukraine may suffer from similar scrutiny by Russian intelligence. That said, a cagey defender such as Ukraine could lure its enemy into overextending itself. Russian forces could find their flanks and supply lines vulnerable to counterattacks—as appears to have occurred on a small scale around Kyiv in the early battles of the war.

But just as the Russian army is unlikely to collapse through attrition, it is also unlikely to lose by being outmaneuvered. The Russians now seem wise to the gambits Ukraine tried early on. And although details are scarce, Ukraine’s recent counterattacks in the Kherson region do not appear to involve much surprise or maneuver. Rather, they seem to look like the kind of slow, grinding offensives that the Russians have themselves mounted in the Donbas. It is unlikely that this pattern will change much. Although the Ukrainians, because they are defending their homeland, are more motivated than the Russians, there is no reason to believe that they are inherently superior at mechanized warfare. Excellence at that requires a great deal of planning and training. Yes, the Ukrainians have profited from Western advising, but the West itself may be out of practice with such operations, having not waged mechanized warfare since 2003, when the United States invaded Iraq. And since 2014, the Ukrainians have focused their efforts on preparing forces for the defense of fortified lines in the Donbas, not for mobile warfare.

More important, a country’s ability to conduct mechanized warfare correlates with its socioeconomic development. Both technical and managerial skills are needed to keep thousands of machines and electronic devices in working order and to coordinate far-flung, fast-moving combat units in real time. Ukraine and Russia have similarly skilled populations from which to draw their soldiers, so it is unlikely that the former enjoys an advantage in mechanized warfare.

A possible counterargument is that the West could supply Ukraine with such superior technology that it could best the Russians, helping Kyiv defeat its enemy through either attrition or mobile warfare. But this theory is also fanciful. Russia enjoys a three-to-one advantage in population and economic output, a gap that even the highest-tech tools would be hard-pressed to close. Advanced Western weapons, such as the Javelin and NLAW antitank guided missiles, have probably helped Ukraine exact a high price from the Russians. But so far, this technology has largely been used to leverage the tactical advantages that defenders already enjoy—cover, concealment, and the ability to channel enemy forces through natural and manmade obstacles. It is much harder to exploit advanced technology to go on the offense against an adversary that possesses a significant quantitative advantage, because doing so requires overcoming both superior numbers and the tactical advantages of defense. In the case of Ukraine, it is not obvious what special technology the West possesses that would so advantage the Ukrainian military that it could crack Russian defenses.
https://cis.mit.edu/publications/analysis-opinion/2022/ukraine’s-implausible-theories-victory

article goes on but point is that analysis and commentary in the west has bordered between fantasy and farce. all i've seen to suggest anything other than russia taking lots of ukrainian land but with lots of casualties, though with these casualties being overestimated by western propaganda, is western propaganda. or people who are hopeful of ukrainian victory and so project things that don't exist.

media interest in the war has died down enormously as many predicted months ago. public interest has died too. the two are obviously related. so now you just see it as clickbait for twitter trolls on either side. the substantial news could probably be summed up in one article every two weeks.
 
Certainly an interesting career path he chose, was always one of my favorites.

Interesting indeed given that Wlad was actually quite friendly with Putin at one point.

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Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.

The way Russia had conducted this war is a rather old fashioned-obsolete way. First of all they haven't dominated the sky which has been a key feature in winning wars since at least Gulf War 1. That meant that their army and tanks were very vulnerable to anti tank missiles especially the queen of anti tank missiles aka the Javelin. After losing ridiculous amount of tanks and officers they switched on an over reliance on artillery that allowed the Russians to hit from a very long distance without being hit in response. We're talking the use of 20k artillery round per day here. Such tactic would never work against NATO who would claim air superiority and is not a very attractive way of conducted war as it cause huge devastation especially the old artillery systems being used by Russia.

Russia had inherited a huge stock of such artillery rounds from the Soviet Union. Artillery rounds tend to be quite robust which means that they resisted the dubious storage methods used by a cash strapped Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. On top of that most European countries had slashed their military budget substantially in the past few years which means their stockpile is somehow low. Sure they had reversed the tendency but rounds tend to need time to be stockpiled especially at a time when the global supply line is being strained by Covid and war.
 
Since artillery has been one of Russias main advantages, I don't get why the west can't flood Ukraine with Artillery. I mean our stocks of them must be high.

I think they'd be better off systematically taking out Russian weapon storage depots with HIMARS to choke off their supplies.
 
The way Russia had conducted this war is a rather old fashioned-obsolete way. First of all they haven't dominated the sky which has been a key feature in winning wars since at least Gulf War 1…
You could go even further back a few decades to WWII, when aircraft carriers made the revered giant battleship more or less obsolete which even further reinforces your point.

On a related note I’ve also heard some of this combat compared to being more akin to WWI than recent wars.
 
I think they'd be better off systematically taking out Russian weapon storage depots with HIMARS to choke off their supplies.
Well... technically HIMARS is an artillery system. So in a way you could say Ukraine is getting an artillery advantage, though not in numbers (which wouldn't be possible for the western countries to provide) but in quality.
 
You could go even further back a few decades to WWII, when aircraft carriers made the revered giant battleship more or less obsolete which even further reinforces your point.

On a related note I’ve also heard some of this combat compared to being more akin to WWI than recent wars.

Well its not exactly WW1 trench/chemical weapons warfare. However it is an old fashioned type of war were the air is being mostly ignored. Another key issue is that Ukraine uses soviet-Russian weaponry that is usually not compatible to Western weaponry. That means that those helping Ukraine must foot the huge bill of buying them the system and the ammunition + they have to train them on how to use it as well.
 
You could go even further back a few decades to WWII, when aircraft carriers made the revered giant battleship more or less obsolete which even further reinforces your point.

On a related note I’ve also heard some of this combat compared to being more akin to WWI than recent wars.

Same impression for me. Coordination of air superiority with quick advances at ground/sea level has been a feature of most wars since the introduction of blitzkrieg and then the Japanese expansion onto European/American colonies in Asia.
 
The way Russia had conducted this war is a rather old fashioned-obsolete way. First of all they haven't dominated the sky which has been a key feature in winning wars since at least Gulf War 1. That meant that their army and tanks were very vulnerable to anti tank missiles especially the queen of anti tank missiles aka the Javelin. After losing ridiculous amount of tanks and officers they switched on an over reliance on artillery that allowed the Russians to hit from a very long distance without being hit in response. We're talking the use of 20k artillery round per day here. Such tactic would never work against NATO who would claim air superiority and is not a very attractive way of conducted war as it cause huge devastation especially the old artillery systems being used by Russia.

Russia had inherited a huge stock of such artillery rounds from the Soviet Union. Artillery rounds tend to be quite robust which means that they resisted the dubious storage methods used by a cash strapped Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. On top of that most European countries had slashed their military budget substantially in the past few years which means their stockpile is somehow low. Sure they had reversed the tendency but rounds tend to need time to be stockpiled especially at a time when the global supply line is being strained by Covid and war.


The Russians aren't capable of Suppressing/Destroying Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD/DEAD) on the level that the US, British, and Israelis are able to do. They don't have the technology nor the experience to do it effectively. As a result, they've had to launch tons of standoff missiles that they can do from Russian controlled airspace without exposing themselves to Ukrainian air defenses. Even those standoff "precision" missiles are so bad that they have to launch volleys of them and hope one hits the target, leading to lots of civilian casualties.