Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Literally most of the incidents of dog suffered injuries. Anxious or aggressive dogs don't have an escape route.

But why is anyone bar a dog warden be cornering any dog let alone an aggressive one?

If someone corners a dog without reason then I think they're well within their rights to protect themselves. If someone cornered me and wouldn't let me out I wouldn't be too happy about it either. I'd probably feel threatened and react aggressively too.

The moral of this story is don't corner dogs.
 
Are certain posters comparing Putin to dogs? That's an insult to dogs tbf
 
But why is anyone bar a dog warden be cornering any dog let alone an aggressive one?

If someone corners a dog without reason then I think they're well within their rights to protect themselves. If someone cornered me and wouldn't let me out I wouldn't be too happy about it either. I'd probably feel threatened and react aggressively too.

The moral of this story is don't corner dogs.

corn-dog-picture-id174945689
 
I also think that maybe, just maybe, not cornering a dog argument doesn’t really work when the said dog is already on a biting rampage.
 
I also think that maybe, just maybe, not cornering a dog argument doesn’t really work when the said dog is already on a biting rampage.
It is also completely inadequate comparison. It is not a cornered dog but a dog that escaped his own yard and went into the neighbours. It can always return home.
 
Keyboard warrior 101. Don't see you going to the front lines and volunteering. Or it doesn't matter to you because it's people you don't know who are dying ?

For many like yourself this is no more than a game of COD. All fun and games to strategize about war but zero idea about it
People like you really are something else. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their future and the future of their children and they know, if they give up it will be the end for them and their country. But you come in here and tries to take some kind of morale high ground because your precious oil price is far more important then the future of 40 million people.
 
People like you really are something else. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their future and the future of their children and they know, if they give up it will be the end for them and their country. But you come in here and tries to take some kind of morale high ground because your precious oil price is far more important then the future of 40 million people.
I’ll give @shamans credit for at least owning up to his opinion. I don’t agree with it but I bet 30-40% of my country does.
 
In Crimea — going by my personal first hand experience — the notion of rejoining Russia, one way or another, was always present. There's a lot of the grass is greener on the other side sentiment to it though — especially with Sevastopol hosting the Russian Black Sea fleet and a considerable Russian army contingent there being well-paid by the standards of the city. So they didn't really see any of the downsides that you see when you're actually in it but they saw all the bonuses + the idea of the historical wrong being done right etc. It would've been really interesting to have a proper survey that would ask Crimean people what they think of joining Russia now, 8 years later.

As for the same sentiment in Donbas — I don't think that it's been there, really. Donbas was Ukrainian for way longer than Crimea and there were many spells when Donbas was actually the most important political region in the inner-Ukrainian political battles (while Crimea always found itself to be isolated & not treated well enough).
Thanks for the context, as usual, harms.
 
Keyboard warrior 101. Don't see you going to the front lines and volunteering. Or it doesn't matter to you because it's people you don't know who are dying ?

For many like yourself this is no more than a game of COD. All fun and games to strategize about war but zero idea about it

So I assume you are at the front given that you want Ukraine to surrender its rightful territories to Russia?
 
Most Americans believe US should stop being the world's police since costs a lot of money to the tax payers.
These forces aren't about the US "being the world's policeman" it's the US protecting US interests, US values, US trade and the US international order and Americans benefit a great deal from being citizens of a global empire run according to its rules. The US is of course free to withdraw itself from the world but I expect it would regret it very quickly.
 
Russian aggression should be controlled by developing alternate sources of energy. Europe put all their eggs in Putins basket which was a dumb thing to do but there is still time. Make a two year plan to get off of it.
This is very true and is a mistake that Angela Merkel should never be allowed to forget. One thing that surprises me is that both Merkel and Scholz were either Stasi aligned directly or were at least working with them prior to the fall of the Berlin wall, and thus may well have very different ideas of what it is to deal with the Russians when compared to the rest of us. It's worrisome to me - I can't help feel like the European Union, rather than working to win the fight in the Ukraine, is simply trying to carve it's own piece of it. That might, of course, be utterly ridiculous but people in such positions do tend to think longer term than say the next few years, and I expect would absolutely be willing to sacrifice the Eastern regions of Ukraine to bring Kiev and West Ukraine under its democratic umbrella. I hope I'm wrong in that, because Ukraine is its own country since the days of Lenin. And if any pro-EC people want to take umbrage with that point I don't blame you at all, it is probably being overly paranoid, but it still feels to me that the UK is seen in vaguely antagonistic terms despite its clear and present efforts against the aggression happening -today-... I know people in the Carrier Strike Group doing exercises right now and I could have been a part of it under different circumstances so I actually do understand what it is to be on the front line.

Where you're wrong though is that for me, personally, paying literally twice as much in petrol is a price I am 100% willing to pay, if that even brings the slightest chance of a victory for the Ukrainians. What's a few pounds to me, compared to THEIR plight. I am certainly not going to starve, and am no way selfish enough to not consider the future of humankind above my own little desires - my grandparents and great grandparents gave far more than we are being asked to.
 
Let's be honest, you're tribal, superficial and only think of the short term. Exactly how you conduct yourself regarding other topics as well. Just what the world needs: More ignorant privileged people who think their wealth is more important than other people's lifes.
:lol:

wealth. most of the people, like >90% of them, impacted by the crisis are not in any way wealthy. a huge number of them will barely be above the poverty limit and enormous amounts will be working poor. seriously, people need to drop the preachy nonsense or maybe do the kinds of things for the vast number of people barely coping under the weight of the inflation crisis at home like agitating for social programs.

i'm in favour of using this war to go beyond limits people here even suggest. i'd like it to be one factor among many in the switch to renewables in the states that are ready to make the transition. but arguing that people are selfish because they're in danger of falling into povery or even below the poverty threshold is absurd.

Yeah a lot of people are materialistic egotists that much is true.
yeah, those materialist egoists who number the three million people regularly using food banks. what a bunch of selfish pricks. seriously, many millions are in brackets just above that limit. jesus christ.

surely we can say that we should support Ukraine with arms and aid without also pretending that the inflation crisis isn't really hurting everyone and risking increased poverty? not one or the other.
 
:lol:

wealth. most of the people, like >90% of them, impacted by the crisis are not in any way wealthy.

Not in any way? Just by being born in the US you are almost guaranteed to be richer than the vast majority of humanity. Those suffering from the war outside Ukraine are those in developing countries, especially because of the increase in food prices. People forget how lucky they were if they are born in the EU or the US. We should be solidary with Ukraine and do with less wealth while they do the dying for the rest of us. shaman's take is just the usual "America first" bullshit.
 
Not in any way? Just by being born in the US you are almost guaranteed to be richer than the vast majority of humanity. Those suffering from the war outside Ukraine are those in developing countries, especially because of the increase in food prices. People forget how lucky they were if they are born in the EU or the US. We should be solidary with Ukraine and do with less wealth while they do the dying for the rest of us. shaman's take is just the usual "America first" bullshit.
I was talking about the UK. Part of what you say is true. there are or will be people who are very well off or even comfortable who won't want to pay anything or undergo any hardship. and not just for Ukraine but basically any cause that isn't immediate to them. but there is also an enormous percentage of the population that is really struggling both in Europe and the US. if I was coming back from a food bank and someone told me I needed to do more I'd tell them to get fecked and that wouldn't have anything to do with Ukraine. same if I was in the bracket just above that. it isn't just the war that is responsible for the inflation crisis anyway but it has made it worse. it's just not the right approach imo to tell people who are struggling that they're selfish or aren't sacrificing enough when wealth inequality is at the worst level it has ever been in the US and Europe.

i'd say arm Ukraine within whatever bounds make military and political sense. give Ukraine humanitarian aid and basically do what can be done on those fronts. but people's concern about their own precarious position shouldn't just be dismissed as "materialist" or "selfish". it's people's lives we're talking about and income + wealth inequality are forcing many below the poverty line.

you also have to bear in mind that the US has given Ukraine a lot of money. more has been given to Ukraine this year alone than is earmarked for the entire federal education budget. whatever people's feelings I don't think you can say people in these countries haven't done enough when their tax money will run to about one hundred billion within a single year by the end of the year, or next six month period, when all is said and done. i don't know, i just think it's wise to separate the very real crisis in living from the very real crisis in Ukraine and not to shame people or virtue signal about being able to undertake more cuts when you're potentially talking with or to people for whom a cut might mean homelessness.
 
Not in any way? Just by being born in the US you are almost guaranteed to be richer than the vast majority of humanity. Those suffering from the war outside Ukraine are those in developing countries, especially because of the increase in food prices. People forget how lucky they were if they are born in the EU or the US. We should be solidary with Ukraine and do with less wealth while they do the dying for the rest of us. shaman's take is just the usual "America first" bullshit.

If you're gonna suggest oil prices have no impact on poverty in the US so check your privileges, that's complete nonesense. Not surprised you think that.

Your take is Europe first bullshit because guess what, Ukraine is not the only conflict where a bully is muscling their way to get that they want. If you look beyond Facebook blue and yellow profile pictures and check the news, you'd know.

Also, if you really think American aid is out of some love or empathy for Ukraine I feel for you
 
But what about the oil prices.



Yeah, but we can't anger Russia, they can do what they want because they have some nukes.God forbid we should do something about it, we'll just kick it along the road for the next country that gets invaded, or the next generation to deal with.

Russia can do what it wants, no one will do anything about it. That's the world we live in. And Russia knows it. The West as it stands is weak as it has ever been in history.
 
But what about the oil prices.


I'm not going to derail this thread but there's a geopolitics thread. There's no reason you can't say feck Russia but these oil prices are really hurting us.

You're genuinely clueless if you think all it means is an extra few bucks for your daily commute
 
I'm not going to derail this thread but there's a geopolitics thread. There's no reason you can't say feck Russia but these oil prices are really hurting us.

You're genuinely clueless if you think all it means is an extra few bucks for your daily commute
It means a few bucks more for everything but that is nothing compared to being tortured or raped in my opinion. Maybe you value cheap food and gas over the safety of your close ones but I don't and neither do the Ukrainians.
 
It means a few bucks more for everything but that is nothing compared to being tortured or raped in my opinion. Maybe you value cheap food and gas over the safety of your close ones but I don't and neither do the Ukrainians.

That's not all it is. You're making it sound like it's a mere inconvenience and nothing more which simply isn't true.
 
I don't want that to happen. I want the war to end and that's a big difference

You want Ukraine to surrender territory they aren't ready to surrender because oil and gas prices. Pretty rich from you to criticize me as a keyboard warrior when I'm actually the one of us who supports the demands of those who are fighting in the war. If Ukraine wanted to surrender the occupied regions, ir would be a totally different story but that's not the case.


If you're gonna suggest oil prices have no impact on poverty in the US so check your privileges, that's complete nonesense. Not surprised you think that.

Your take is Europe first bullshit because guess what, Ukraine is not the only conflict where a bully is muscling their way to get that they want. If you look beyond Facebook blue and yellow profile pictures and check the news, you'd know.

Also, if you really think American aid is out of some love or empathy for Ukraine I feel for you

I don't suggest that. What I suggest is that the standard of living in the US is far higher - even amongst the poor - than the standard of living in less privileged parts of the world.

And no, I don't think it is out of empathy, it is a proxy wqr against a nuclear war invading a sovereign country. It is in the US' geopolitical interest that Ukraine wins and that the whole situation is stabilized. You don't seem to get that, you only see the oil prices and think in the short term.

And finally, save your whataboutism for other threads. You've backed yourself into a corner, so don't try to play the get out of jail card.
 
Yeah, but we can't anger Russia, they can do what they want because they have some nukes.God forbid we should do something about it, we'll just kick it along the road for the next country that gets invaded, or the next generation to deal with.

Russia can do what it wants, no one will do anything about it. That's the world we live in. And Russia knows it. The West as it stands is weak as it has ever been in history.

The US and the West Are always slated for intervening and also slated when they don't. It's funny no one is pointing fingers at China for doing feck all because they know The CCP doesn't give a flying feck about ethics. The anti western moaners will love it when China is the world's hegemon in a few decades. Still we are actually doing something providing Ukraine with finances, weapons, Intel and imposing severe sanctions on Russia. Ukraine has a competent fighting force and the Russian invasion so far has been a massive failure.
 
Ukranians are not going to surrender any of their territories. Their people are dying, their Motherland being destroyed, they are in a true war. If put-ler ever decides to go nuclear, the west will not hold back either. Just because one rushist cnut has nuclear weapons, it does not mean that he can do whatever the feck he wishes to a sovereign neighbour country. Had there been no initial support from the US and the UK, we would have no sovereign Ukraine now. Put-ler did this to Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimeans. Moldova is also far from feeling safe. It is the chief rushist who is causing havoc and death to neighbours. It is him who believes that the mighty Russia should rule over former USSR countries. He is a rushist, and his ideology is rushism. Oil and gas prices shooting up, millions of people potentially facing death from hunger, are all his fault. Ukrainans wanted none of it. It is them who are dying en masse, it is their cities that are being erased from the face of the Earth, it is their citizens that face the ultimate horror each and every day. I hope the chief rushist is defeated in the heaviest way possible, thus making Europe a continent with no big tensions, which will in its turn have a huge positive impact on the whole world.
 
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The US and the West Are always slated for intervening and also slated when they don't. It's funny no one is pointing fingers at China for doing feck all because they know The CCP doesn't give a flying feck about ethics. The anti western moaners will love it when China is the world's hegemon in a few decades. Still we are actually doing something providing Ukraine with finances, weapons, Intel and imposing severe sanctions on Russia. Ukraine has a competent fighting force and the Russian invasion so far has been a massive failure.

Stupid post. You know full well why they've been slated for interventions in the past, you're not naive enough to think they occurred due to altruism.
 
Stupid post. You know full well why they've been slated for interventions in the past, you're not naive enough to think they occurred due to altruism.

True, yet its still the west everyone looks to when there is the "won't somebody please do something" sentiment.
 
I think I get what you're saying here, but what situations are you referring to?

Syria in its early stages. Libya when civil war broke out under Gadaffi. Anyway, you're right it was a stupid post. I have a hangover from last night. But it's still true that people with anti western sentiment constantly berate especially the US for playing the world police and are now berating them for not doing it enough.
 
Syria in its early stages. Libya when civil war broke out under Gadaffi. Anyway, you're right it was a stupid post. I have a hangover from last night. But it's still true that people with anti western sentiment constantly berate especially the US for playing the world police and are now berating them for not doing it enough.

I think a lot of the criticism comes from the idea of a world police, and the drivers behind it. The US didn't reluctantly assume that mantle, it was done by design to serve its interests economically and ideologically, to ensure that it remains the principal global superpower. When its conduct in this capacity has been criticised (this is extended to the UK and co too of course) historically there has been thorough and objective reasons for the criticism. That doesn't mean situations can't be evaluated on a case by case basis, past failed interventions (with questionable casus belli) doesn't mean that hypothetically there won't be a situation where one would think there is cause to intervene.

I mean having said all that I agree completely with the sentiment of your initial post here

Still we are actually doing something providing Ukraine with finances, weapons, Intel and imposing severe sanctions on Russia. Ukraine has a competent fighting force and the Russian invasion so far has been a massive failure.
 
I think I get what you're saying here, but what situations are you referring to?

Yemen would be one example where we should be putting pressure on the Saudis to resolve it peacefully.
 
I was talking about the UK. Part of what you say is true. there are or will be people who are very well off or even comfortable who won't want to pay anything or undergo any hardship. and not just for Ukraine but basically any cause that isn't immediate to them. but there is also an enormous percentage of the population that is really struggling both in Europe and the US. if I was coming back from a food bank and someone told me I needed to do more I'd tell them to get fecked and that wouldn't have anything to do with Ukraine. same if I was in the bracket just above that. it isn't just the war that is responsible for the inflation crisis anyway but it has made it worse. it's just not the right approach imo to tell people who are struggling that they're selfish or aren't sacrificing enough when wealth inequality is at the worst level it has ever been in the US and Europe.

i'd say arm Ukraine within whatever bounds make military and political sense. give Ukraine humanitarian aid and basically do what can be done on those fronts. but people's concern about their own precarious position shouldn't just be dismissed as "materialist" or "selfish". it's people's lives we're talking about and income + wealth inequality are forcing many below the poverty line.

you also have to bear in mind that the US has given Ukraine a lot of money. more has been given to Ukraine this year alone than is earmarked for the entire federal education budget. whatever people's feelings I don't think you can say people in these countries haven't done enough when their tax money will run to about one hundred billion within a single year by the end of the year, or next six month period, when all is said and done. i don't know, i just think it's wise to separate the very real crisis in living from the very real crisis in Ukraine and not to shame people or virtue signal about being able to undertake more cuts when you're potentially talking with or to people for whom a cut might mean homelessness.

The post that triggered @Zehner’s comment was from @shamans who is very comfortable financially and does not represent people in food banks. He’s more likely to think about banks losing money than food banks losing resources. And when he said that his view is not in the minority, he was representing the view of people like himself who care more about America’s GDP and economic growth than the number of people under the poverty line in America and their current trajectory. They’re looking at the stock market and feeling the pain, and they think maybe Ukraine should do something to stop that pain. Just make a few concessions, give up a bit of land, help stabilise the oil prices that ultimately matter more to the world than your little claim of sovereignty. That is a morally objectionable position. So if anything, it’s you conflating @Zehner’s comment that was grounded in a specific context with some wider social commentary that has ended up in virtue signalling.
 
I think a lot of the criticism comes from the idea of a world police, and the drivers behind it. The US didn't reluctantly assume that mantle, it was done by design to serve its interests economically and ideologically, to ensure that it remains the principal global superpower. When its conduct in this capacity has been criticised (this is extended to the UK and co too of course) historically there has been thorough and objective reasons for the criticism. That doesn't mean situations can't be evaluated on a case by case basis, past failed interventions (with questionable casus belli) doesn't mean that hypothetically there won't be a situation where one would think there is cause to intervene.

I mean having said all that I agree completely with the sentiment of your initial post here

Completely agree
 
You want Ukraine to surrender territory they aren't ready to surrender because oil and gas prices. Pretty rich from you to criticize me as a keyboard warrior when I'm actually the one of us who supports the demands of those who are fighting in the war. If Ukraine wanted to surrender the occupied regions, ir would be a totally different story but that's not the case.




I don't suggest that. What I suggest is that the standard of living in the US is far higher - even amongst the poor - than the standard of living in less privileged parts of the world.

And no, I don't think it is out of empathy, it is a proxy wqr against a nuclear war invading a sovereign country. It is in the US' geopolitical interest that Ukraine wins and that the whole situation is stabilized. You don't seem to get that, you only see the oil prices and think in the short term.

And finally, save your whataboutism for other threads. You've backed yourself into a corner, so don't try to play the get out of jail card.

Don't run away from your comments now. You go about acting as if rising gas prices is just an inconvenience on the drive to your golf course. Many Americans are struggling for basic necessities right now and are paying the price for not only Russia's aggression but Europe's incompetence in over reliance on Russia and Zelenskys lack of preparation despite being warned

What you also dont get is I'm an immigrant and have family "back home" that is impacted by the gas prices in ways you couldn't even fathom. While you play geopolitics and cream yourself at probably the first conflict you've ever followed the situation around the world is terrible. Third world countries where people die everyday dont give a crap about Russia Ukraine and who gains what land. Cold hard facts. That should not matter anyways, just from an American perspective is enough.

I have no sympathy for Russia they're playing the same game Israel has been playing but even with Israel in Palestine has had to yield and so has neighboring countries.

As for "get out of jail" cars I see why it got you so agressive. You're afraid of being faced with similar global conflicts that you probably don't give a crap about. You don't want to face the hypocrisy.

Probably texting this franticly on your iPhone or Android phone ethically crafted in China while they decimate the Uyghurs and take their land. Wonder why you can't give up that privileged right.[/QUOTE]
 
Shamans, what are you advocating for regarding Ukraine, what do you think they should do?
 
The absolute horror that is taking place in Ukraine (and for so long) has moved me for the first time closer to "get involved on the ground" line of thinking.

Couldn't care less about gas prices or who is affected by it.