Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

We may be running low on surplus supplies, but it has nothing to do with fearing Russia “coming our way”.

Supplies for the Army are irrelevant, because they wouldn’t make it through the Navy and Air Force.
Countries like Poland and Germany are reluctant to send supplies they have marked for their troops, leaving them without what they would need to defend themselves.
 
I’ve learned not to get too excited over these things, but combined with action in the south these past few days feel like a highly significant turning point.

Don't think ukrainians are trying to wrestle the city back from russians, they're just inflicting as much damage to them as possible by luring them into a trap. That means, russians can not be backed by scorching artillery and air support, its more of an infantry fight. Russians likely will retreat and then start doing what they do best, destroying everything before moving back in.
 
And yet another Russian general dead - number 14:

I won't post the twitter link because it contains a graphic image, but the text says:

"Viktor Kovalenko @MrKovalenko (40.4k followers) 2h (June 5th):

"UPDATE. WARNING! GRAPHIC PHOTO. - The @InformNapalm intel community & Russian social media confirm that the killed today Russian General is Roman Kutuzov. He failed to led Russian troops and cut the major supply road btw Bakhmut & #Lisichansk in Luhansk province, eastern #Ukraine"
 
Yeah, because even here in England, we'd so, so be terrified of Russia coming our way, such is the embarrassing performance of Russias military performance, let alone joined with America. We'd wipe you out in days, just the USA & UK, never mind the rest of NATO.

Self awareness isn't Russia's strong point, the damage caused internationally by Russuas army in this war has destroyed any mythical prowess the Russian Federation had, and the UK has had the Tories killing he defence force for nearly 20 years.
The US and UK would do very well in a war against me because I don’t have any heavy equipment or soldiers besides myself. Or did you think I’m Russian and you’re referring to “you” as “me and my fellow Russians”?

It makes sense to me that a country wouldn’t want to strip its own forces of supplies to send them to Ukraine. Might be the right thing to do, but surely anyone wold be reluctant.

The UK has nothing to fear from Russia, I would think they could send everything and not worry about being able to replace it right away.
 
Simply the best video i have watched for the reasons behind the conflict.


I feel like he’s a bit lost in his methodology. There’s no doubt that gas & oil plays an enormous part in Putin’s decision-making and from that perspective the video is spot on, but if you look strictly from an economical point of view, this war doesn’t really makes sense. Even leaving aside the actual direct cost of the war, Russian economy has taken an enormous hit (that isn’t even remotely close to being compensated by the rise of oil, gas & grain prices) and we’ve only began to see the first signs of the actual damage. Not to mention that he had lost its biggest market — maybe not short-term but certainly mid-to-long term, including the freshly-build North Stream 2.
 
Yeah free speech and democracy is a bitch when it doesn't swing our way.
You don’t have to debate and disprove, or even welcome, every bit of disinformation or propaganda just to uphold free speech and democracy.
 
And yet another Russian general dead - number 14:

I won't post the twitter link because it contains a graphic image, but the text says:

"Viktor Kovalenko @MrKovalenko (40.4k followers) 2h (June 5th):

"UPDATE. WARNING! GRAPHIC PHOTO. - The @InformNapalm intel community & Russian social media confirm that the killed today Russian General is Roman Kutuzov. He failed to led Russian troops and cut the major supply road btw Bakhmut & #Lisichansk in Luhansk province, eastern #Ukraine"

Pretty sure US intelligence has GPS chips sewed in all the russian general's underwears. They seem to know where they all are.
 
Yeah free speech and democracy is a bitch when it doesn't swing our way.

Not sure if it's free speech and democracy when you have a guy on here who sees pictures and videos on genocidal war featuring dead people on the street, raped women, murdered kids and asks "proof?". Especially with many people here who know, or are related to, Ukrainians. What DT is saying is debatable, what Paxi said should get you banned from the thread for good.
 
Not sure if it's free speech and democracy when you have a guy on here who sees pictures and videos on genocidal war featuring dead people on the street, raped women, murdered kids and asks "proof?". Especially with many people here who know, or are related to, Ukrainians. What DT is saying is debatable, what Paxi said should get you banned from the thread for good.

My reply was concerning the poster bringing up Brexit and Trump as examples.
 


Mark Hertling really cracked me up with that anecdote in his daily thread. Gotta admit that he's right though: the Russian military have been pretty much in "Leeeeeeeeroy Jenkins" mode.
 
I don't want to to see @DT12 banned either, even tho' he seems keen to push many aspects of the Kremlin narrative. Besides, I want to see what he/she has to say when Russia fails to reach the military objectives he cited, within the times-scales cited, if ever.
He might get on a plane to India and deny us all the pleasure.
 
I feel like he’s a bit lost in his methodology. There’s no doubt that gas & oil plays an enormous part in Putin’s decision-making and from that perspective the video is spot on, but if you look strictly from an economical point of view, this war doesn’t really makes sense. Even leaving aside the actual direct cost of the war, Russian economy has taken an enormous hit (that isn’t even remotely close to being compensated by the rise of oil, gas & grain prices) and we’ve only began to see the first signs of the actual damage. Not to mention that he had lost its biggest market — maybe not short-term but certainly mid-to-long term, including the freshly-build North Stream 2.
Theres no doubt him and his inner circle made a huge miscalculation on the length of the war and the resistance they would face. I guess they thought taking ukraine would be easier than it has been. They would then control the second largest oil and gas deposits in europe and remove ukraine as a potential thorn in their side when it comes to selling oil and gas to the european block.

Or as the unfounded speculation has mentioned. He's on a one way ticket to rewrite history, claim back as much of former ussr lands as he can before his blood cancer kills him.
 
My reply was concerning the poster bringing up Brexit and Trump as examples.
Well, I think that is a big part of why populism has thrived, because much of the media, in an effort to be democratic and support free speech, presents bad faith arguments as having equal weight to those that are meticulously well researched and evidenced.
 
Simply the best video i have watched for the reasons behind the conflict.



F Me, Donbas being a huge source of oil and natural gas means this is going to be a long war. Noway Ukraine, US or Russia accept the region being lost without pulling out all the stops.

Cheers for the video
 
Well, I think that is a big part of why populism has thrived, because much of the media, in an effort to be democratic and support free speech, presents bad faith arguments as having equal weight to those that are meticulously well researched and evidenced.

Do you actually truly believe the billionaire gatekeepers of media organisations put in an effort to 'be democratic and support free speech'?
 
Intersting that there are no markings from air burst ammunitions. Trying to take out infantry or other soft targets out in the open with direct impact ammunition is extremly inefective compared to air burst detonations.

There was a tweet thread posted a long time ago here that proposed that Russia don't have the fuses to do airbursts. Hence the patterns like in these photos.
 
Do you actually truly believe the billionaire gatekeepers of media organisations put in an effort to 'be democratic and support free speech'?

Yes, there are many reliable private media companies and there are public broadcasters as well here in Germany which are financed by taxes to provide independent sources of information.

The post you quoted was absolutely spot on if you ask me. Arguing both sides of the medal is generally a good thing but it shouldn't mean repeating obviously wrong lines of argumentation without explaining why they are wrong. And it shouldn't mean that you "overrepresent" minority opinions and give the impression they're anywhere close to the societal consensus. For example, when you have a political talk show on for instance climate change and invite guests from different political parties, do you really have to invite a right wing politician whose party got <10% to provide him a platform to share his "climate change isn't human made" bullshit? I don't think so. There's no need to support such an absurd take which has so little backing in the society.
 
So far the Russians inflict a lot of damage to Ukraine using artillery. In a couple of months, Ukraine may have the modern equipment needed to destroy that artillery.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-artillery-to-ukraine-despite-russian-threats

UK to send long-range rocket artillery to Ukraine despite Russian threats

M270 launch systems have 50-mile range and can target Russian artillery that has been attacking cities in eastern Ukraine
 
Guys, we can’t ban people for thinking a different side of the war is going to win.

In my opinion, the problem is not saying that Putin is winning. Objectively, I also think Putin is winning right now. Because Putin is bombarding Ukraine, has already destroyed a big part of Ukraine, but nobody has destroyed a big part or Russia. There are millions of Ukrainian refuges, there are zero Russian refuges. We were afraid that Russia will take Kiev and they didn't, but that does not mean that "Ukraine won", it only means that "Ukraine survived". We don't know what will happen in the future, Ukraine may win, but even then, they may have hundreds of thousands of dead citizens, and hundreds of thousands of destroyed buildings. We know for sure that at the end of this war a large part of Ukraine will be completely destroyed.


What I don't like is the blatant Russia propaganda that says "Europe has to make a deal with Putin the winner and cut ties with USA that has its own selfish reasons to be involved". It's a constant theme of Russian propaganda. The wet dream of Russia is that NATO will break up.

So, we see that some people here continue this theme. Putin is bad, but Putin is a winner and Europeans should make a deal with Putin. Forget USA, they are selfish, Europe has to break ranks and make a deal with Putin, giving him what he needs to be happy. Forget what Ukraine wants, Ukraine is not worth supporting if that means that the European economy suffers. It is better if Europe makes a deal with Putin right now, and makes money helping Putin be strong and happy. Sure, some Ukrainians died but it is better to finish the war now, give part of Ukraine to Russia, and prevent more deaths. After all, Ukraine used to be a part of Russia, why is Europe keeping this war going? Europe is partly responsible for the deaths, because they give arms that are being used in this war.


I think that this line of reasoning is not "opinion". It is Russian propaganda. There is a difference.
 
In my opinion, the problem is not saying that Putin is winning. Objectively, I also think Putin is winning right now. Because Putin is bombarding Ukraine, has already destroyed a big part of Ukraine, but nobody has destroyed a big part or Russia. There are millions of Ukrainian refuges, there are zero Russian refuges. We were afraid that Russia will take Kiev and they didn't, but that does not mean that "Ukraine won", it only means that "Ukraine survived". We don't know what will happen in the future, Ukraine may win, but even then, they may have hundreds of thousands of dead citizens, and hundreds of thousands of destroyed buildings. We know for sure that at the end of this war a large part of Ukraine will be completely destroyed.


What I don't like is the blatant Russia propaganda that says "Europe has to make a deal with Putin the winner and cut ties with USA that has its own selfish reasons to be involved". It's a constant theme of Russian propaganda. The wet dream of Russia is that NATO will break up.

So, we see that some people here continue this theme. Putin is bad, but Putin is a winner and Europeans should make a deal with Putin. Forget USA, they are selfish, Europe has to break ranks and make a deal with Putin, giving him what he needs to be happy. Forget what Ukraine wants, Ukraine is not worth supporting if that means that the European economy suffers. It is better if Europe makes a deal with Putin right now, and makes money helping Putin be strong and happy. Sure, some Ukrainians died but it is better to finish the war now, give part of Ukraine to Russia, and prevent more deaths. After all, Ukraine used to be a part of Russia, why is Europe keeping this war going? Europe is partly responsible for the deaths, because they give arms that are being used in this war.


I think that this line of reasoning is not "opinion". It is Russian propaganda. There is a difference.
While you don’t agree with what’s being said, and you think it is Russian propaganda, we still can’t just ban people for posting what someone thinks is propaganda.

I’ll be the first person laughing my ass off when Russia loses this war, and certainly if Putin drops dead… but I can’t ban a guy for thinking differently.
 
While you don’t agree with what’s being said, and you think it is Russian propaganda, we still can’t just ban people for posting what someone thinks is propaganda.

I’ll be the first person laughing my ass off when Russia loses this war, and certainly if Putin drops dead… but I can’t ban a guy for thinking differently.

I never asked for banning anyone.

I just pointed out that it is not the same thing having an opinion about what is happening and what will happen, and asking Europe to cut off Ukraine and make a deal directly with the winner Putin. I believe that you will agree with me that this is NOT "just an opinion".
 
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They’ll probably pull back soon to strategically better placed Lysychansk but the damage they have inflicted on the enemy and morale gained through this counter attack in Severodonetsk will probably be worth it.
 
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This seems a bit misleading as there was a video previously which showed a couple of Russian tanks which were covered there and artillery just hammered the whole area. It wasn’t like there were loads of troops in a trench who then sallied forth a la WW1 which the writer seems to be suggesting. Russia seem inept but not Gen. Hague level inept.
 
Great clip and a good example of why you shouldn’t need to dignify propaganda with having to exhaustively debunk it. Just giving it courtesy and oxygen is more than it deserves.

 
Great clip and a good example of why you shouldn’t need to dignify propaganda with having to exhaustively debunk it. Just giving it courtesy and oxygen is more than it deserves.



That's very good, but he mentioned communists as orchestrating the worst atrocities of the last two centuries there. Is he one of those who thinks the Russians are still communists?
 
That's very good, but he mentioned communists as orchestrating the worst atrocities of the last two centuries there. Is he one of those who thinks the Russians are still communists?

He's a Berlusconi stooge, so.
 
That's very good, but he mentioned communists as orchestrating the worst atrocities of the last two centuries there. Is he one of those who thinks the Russians are still communists?
I wasn’t reading (as I speak Italian) and I interpreted him as referring to the Kremlin being the seat of the Soviet Union’s power, not being confused about communism.