Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Mr Pigeon said:
FFS if I see Putler or Botoxface one more time then I hope Facelift Squidward just presses the red button and blows me up.
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Well he is the botoxface. Everybody knows it. And it is the least insult I could think of. This mad scum of the earth deserves much worse name calling than what has been written here. Botox will soon turn him into a mummy.
 
MoskvaRed said:
That’s not a helpful comparison. Britain is an island with, needless to say, fixed borders, and, within that, England is just about the oldest nation state in Europe. Ukraine has existed an independent entity since 1991 and only for very brief periods before then. It is a separate nation rather than an appendage to Russia or Poland but I don’t see the reason for an absolutist view of its territorial scope when the price is so high. If they emerge without Crimea and potentially without the Donbass but with a meaningful NATO security guarantee and a roadmap to EU integration (and without their country being razed while we cheer them on from armchairs in Western Europe), that is a big strategic win in the grander scheme of things.
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
 
Revan said:
As I said yes, if those things matter.

If he has lost it, then China cannot help. Only his cronies can.
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US intelligence says he’s yelled at some people but he’s otherwise his usual self. They seem to have pretty good intelligence on him.

I just think it’s reductive to suggest he’s crazy and so any step taken could result in nuclear war. Many steps have been taken and he’s done nothing to those western countries.

The current “rules” are that Russia supplied one side, the US (perhaps with some help) supplies the other. Like in Syria, great care is taken to keep US troops from ever coming in contact with Russian troops, when there are troops in the area.

I don’t know who was there first, but the other one wasn’t afraid to go in and support the opposition. It seems reasonable to me to handle things similarly.
 
Zlatattack said:
The border lines of Asia and Africa say hello.
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As the Kenyan delegate to the UN noted the other day, it serves no good in a post-colonial world to continually resurrect these arguments, when former empire or former colony.

 
If there is going to be no infantry aid from other countries, nor NATO aviation, it seems reasonable to negotiate Crimea and Donetks/Luhanks. At least a serious referendum, trying to maintain Ukraine's political and military freedom.
I cannot imagine Putin returning to Moscow defeated without having obtained any advantage (if there were riots in Russia and serious opposition...) and no matter how disorganized his army is, they are still superior and can cause a massacre for months + the nuclear wild card that will increase.
 
carvajal said:
If there is going to be no infantry aid from other countries, nor NATO aviation, it seems reasonable to negotiate Crimea and Donetks/Luhanks. At least a serious referendum, trying to maintain Ukraine's political and military freedom.
I cannot imagine Putin returning to Moscow defeated without having obtained any advantage (if there were riots in Russia and serious opposition...) and no matter how disorganized his army is, they are still superior and can cause a massacre for months + the nuclear wild card that will increase.
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They both want Crimea because there is a huge gas field/reserves around it in the black sea.
 
nimic said:
Do we have to keep posting Marco Rubio tweets? It's not like they have any new information, it's literally just Marco Rubio's take on events.
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Yes, as has been explained a number of times before, he has access that others dont.
 
nimic said:
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
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This is derailing the thread and therefore my last post on this issue. Maybe “nation state” was the wrong term as that is more 19th century post-romanticism but England was formed as a unitary state by around 900 and has stayed basically within the same borders ever since. Any earlier examples in Europe? I can’t think of any.
 
Dans said:
He should challenge them to a game of hockey to settle matters. He's really good:

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Yeah you should probably stop advertising the cnut. He probably threaten the players he will kill them or something if they don't make him look good.
 
MoskvaRed said:
The NATO cavalry is not going to come riding over the hill so what’s your proposed solution?
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I don’t know. But as someone who resides in a secure country that can pursue a self-indulgent folly even like Brexit, I’m not about to start suggesting on a football forum that my Ukrainian friends and family resisting over there, hand over large parts of their land that aren’t occupied even today. I don’t think people realise that prior to last week, and even now pro-Russian forces control less than 50% of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.
 
TMDaines said:
As the Kenyan delegate to the UN noted the other day, it serves no good in a post-colonial world to continually resurrect these arguments, when former empire or former colony.

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Great address. This is also very true of the Balkans. However, there it's still especially annoying how so many people still look backward 100, 200, 500, 1000 years.

As if some savage killing people a millennium ago would improve anyone's life today. It's just a waste of energy and human life when conflicts occur because of some dumb argument from the distant past.

While the USSR collapsed a mere 30 years ago, so much has changed that it may as well be 200. But Putin is from the before times and refuses to live in reality, so here we are.
 
MoskvaRed said:
This is derailing the thread and therefore my last post on this issue. Maybe “nation state” was the wrong term as that is more 19th century post-romanticism but England was formed as a unitary state by around 900 and has stayed basically within the same borders ever since. Any earlier examples in Europe? I can’t think of any.
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Bulgaria?
 
Hugh Jass said:
They both want Crimea because there is a huge gas field/reserves around it in the black sea.
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but someone has to make concessions.
I don't know if patriotism and bravery will be enough and from what I understand in Crimea they are basically Russians.
In fact, it would be good if they negotiate it before the Russians take Kiev/Kharkov parasitizing it indefinitely.
 
nimic said:
Crimea is definitely lost, that's just a fact of life at this point. The only way they're getting it back is if someone after Putin decides to give it back.
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It is gone, but Ukraine will never accept that.
 
carvajal said:
If there is going to be no infantry aid from other countries, nor NATO aviation, it seems reasonable to negotiate Crimea and Donetks/Luhanks. At least a serious referendum, trying to maintain Ukraine's political and military freedom.
I cannot imagine Putin returning to Moscow defeated without having obtained any advantage (if there were riots in Russia and serious opposition...) and no matter how disorganized his army is, they are still superior and can cause a massacre for months + the nuclear wild card that will increase.
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I heard on a couple of stations that this war is costing Putin 15 Billion dollars a day. If that’s the case, time is not on Putins side.
 
I've seen/read more than one Ukranian official use the line about compromise but not capitulation. I'm not so sure that they wouldn't concede any territory, I think that's just the line they've putting forward as strong message.
 
Can you cnuts stop saying Putler? It’s not having the impact you think it is by comparing him to that other fella. It’s just taking away from the actual named culprit Putin.
 
Josh 76 said:
I heard on a couple of stations that this war is costing Putin 15 Billion dollars a day. If that’s the case, time is not on Putins side.
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Considering he sent 18 yo conscripts with obsolete tanks and expired food, I highly doubt so.
 
nimic said:
Not the Holocaust. I also don't think Russification compares to the Holodomor, in sheer horror. I get that many Ukrainians feel like this is the end, but I just don't think evoking the Holocaust even for an aggressive war of expansion is right. Putin is not going to try to exterminate the people of Ukraine, he just isn't.
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The original juxtaposition of the two tweets wasn’t intended to imply that, so we are getting a little off-track. It was intended to contrast the Russians employing a denazification narrative, yet managing to deliver collateral damage to one of the key sites of Holocaust remembrance.

As to there being a potential holocaust of Ukrainians, no, not in the sense of what Nazi Germany did, at least not in the short term, but reprisals to resistors would happen openly. Russia already suppresses any opposition sentiment at home.

I’m also in no doubt that should Putin seize Ukraine, he and any continuity successors would embark on a programme that would look to erode Ukrainian identity, eliminate Ukrainian nationalism and push the Ukrainian language to the margins, suffocated by Russia’s cultural output. What do you think the threats to “decommunise” and “denazify” Ukraine meant? What do you think is meant by questioning Ukraine’s right to even exist and the “Ukrainian question”? Russia has sought to eliminate other identities and homogenise the people in its empire for over a century.

Even now, it seems as if China wants to eradicate Uighur identity, and we all seem powerless to stop it. That seems to be happening in plain sight.
 
SilentWitness said:
Can you cnuts stop saying Putler? It’s not having the impact you think it is by comparing him to that other fella. It’s just taking away from the actual named culprit Putin.
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Nah, I will call him putler. Because, if I call him Putin, it will be his real surname. But Putler is his nature. So it is either putler, botoxface, bunkergnome or covidophobe.
 
I am very likely to have lost 6-7 friends of mine in Ukraine in the last 4-5 days. Will call the fecker all names. They were innocent great people with families. Feck him.
 
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