Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Rektsanwalt]

This idea that Putin is a crazy looney tunes like Hiteler is pure propoganda. Not a chance he tries to take on a Nato country or fire Nukes. He's an arsehole not a mad man.

Hitler wasn't pathologically crazy at the beginning either, but then got carried away. Chances are, Putin isn't necessarily completely mentally ill at this moment, but could be instable.

 

[IWat]

Disgusting you should be ashamed. That's millions of people living through humanitarian crises you're talking about.

Perhaps they can ask their leaders why they are endorsing this nonsense.

 

[TMDaines]

Two random Tweets:

 

[Irwin99]

If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.

 

[BD]

What would be so good about this?

 

[Zlatattack]

Cut all aid to anyone remaining who receives it in my opinion.

That'll never happen because foreign aid isn't given to help people, it's given to buy influence with politicians as bribes and to spread your cultural values in other countries by funding NGO's.

 

[Smores]

Perhaps they can ask their leaders why they are endorsing this nonsense.

Because the people of Venezuela and Syria have a say what their leaders do. Children definitely deserve to have life saving aid removed because their leaders didn't walk out.

Tough guy you are.

 

[ChaddyP]

Next to the US? You joke but that’s not how they financed the loan, they gave a huge amount of land to China (I think it was for 50years). Long term fear for the US is they can start to affect policies in the Caribbean which will not benefit the US but benefit China.

We are close to the us but I wouldn't call that a strategic location to do anything to them that the Chinese can't already do themselves. Our location is only beneficial as a trading point for transshipment

... The government gave them 1200 acres of land...not exactly a huge amount and it's for building hotels not a military base.

And I can tell you , our extremely zenophobic anti Chinese culture will not be influenced by China anytime soon. There are about as many Jamaicans living in the us as there are in the island itself. The US army is full of Jamaicans so much so my friend that serves in the US army just got married to a fellow Jamaican marine that he met in the army.

The us is always fretting about anyone that tries to influence any country in the world 100 miles away or 10k miles away.

We had an extremely close trading relationship with Venezuela for years as they sold us cheap oil. When it came down to the nitty gritty we sided with uncle Sam as we always do and didn't recognize Maduro as legitimate. There is a better chance of hell freezing over before our government enacts some sort of anti us policy. Because as far as Jamaica is concerned anti us is anti Jamaican due to our embeded ties

 

[sun_tzu]

What would be so good about this?

In theory I guess it could be a good starting point for tracking people down and bringing them to justice if human rights violations take place ?

Though that does not actually stop anything happening

 

[shamans]

This is why I hate twitter. Some news that has very little bearing on the grand scheme of things and it's "wow wow wow"

 

[IWat]

Because the people of Venezuela and Syria have a say what their leaders do. Children definitely deserve to have life saving aid removed because their leaders didn't walk out.

Tough guy you are.

We don't give humanitarian aid to North Korea, even though they could do with it. Ever wondered why? Get off your high horse and enter the real world.

 

[Interval]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

yeah, big social changes usually happen by people dying, not people changing their minds.

 

[Spark]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

Spot on I'm afraid.

 

[11101]

Good news from the BBC live page on that 40 miles column queued outside Kyiv

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877

Some clarity on that massive Russian armoured column heading south towards Kyiv.

Close analysis of the latest satellite images by McKenzie Intelligence Services reveals the following:

• The convoy is not 40 miles long, it’s a series of logistical ‘packets’ strung out along a major highway from the Belarus border, aiming to link up with Russian units on the northern outskirts of Kyiv.
• The convoy appears to be hampered in several places by broken down vehicles.
• The column consists of some armour (tanks) and infantry fighting vehicles but mainly logistical vehicles, implying plans for more than just a brief battle.

Separately, the imagery examined by McKenzie Intelligence Services shows a Russian parachute battalion dug in to the area of Hostomel airfield - Ukraine's most important international cargo airport and a key military airbase near Kyiv.

But their artillery is assessed to be outside the range of most of the capital.

The analysts say they have noted very little Russian progress over the past 24 hours.

 

[shamans]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

At this point there are a lot of millenials in the position of power to be doing this stuff. I suppose Putin is a Boomer but there are just as many who want peace. If anything, I find more childish millennials who don't understand the impact of war.

 

[Zlatattack]

This is an interesting video. A bit off-topic I know, but it seems highly likely that Trasnistria will get pulled into this.

Did you see his video of him escaping from Kiev? He's on a train with refugees. It really brings the reality of war home.

 

[Zlatattack]

Good news from the BBC live page on that 40 miles column queued outside Kyiv

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877

i was watching a clip of an American general who reckons it's a resupply convoy. It's likely there to provide supplies to those further ahead on the battlefield.

I guess Russia must have achieved air superiority if they can just park hundreds of vehicles up like that.

 

[Frosty]

If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.

A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.

 

[Bepi]

get a grip

some of you lot start getting carried away with your fantasies, absolute mad shit

Yeah, these posts are borderline idiotic, but this is a football forum… such circumstances are happening at the EU border and are pretty scary, so let it be.

Hopefully, there will be last minute talks to avoid a bloodbath in Kyiv and agree mutually acceptable terms sooner than later.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This is an interesting video. A bit off-topic I know, but it seems highly likely that Trasnistria will get pulled into this.

Maybe keep that guys vids off here, proper seedy background.

 

[Bepi]

If Russia is defeated and is brought to the negotiating table what are we looking at in terms of reparations/consequences? People have mentioned the fear of what happened to Germany after WW1 and there also are other historical precedents of a nation suffering humiliating peace terms which only inflame further resentment (e.g., Carthage after the first Punic war).

I really don't know what the best case scenario is other than the obvious 'Russia withdraws from the Ukraine' which will still have enormous consequences. I think people are hanging their hopes on Putin being taken out and then an issued apology from the next Russian leader.

Without a full scale war, you mean? It’s impossible, innit? Best case scenario is all parties agree a truce and settle some sort of splitting… after that, it will however be a cold war scenario until Putin goes, in a way or the other (he is 70yo, not 50…)

 

[Rightnr]

This is why I hate twitter. Some news that has very little bearing on the grand scheme of things and it's "wow wow wow"

Agree, using that wow nonsense is pure idiocy.

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

Share the sentiment, sick of this shit. However, it's also true people of my generation (millennials) don't vote. So it's also their fault.

 

[The Corinthian]

Cut all aid to anyone remaining who receives it in my opinion.

What an idiotic comment to make.

 

[Pintu]

It’s a pretty depressing world if we just sit by militarily, leaving those countries with aspirations of joining NATO/EU fall under Russian imperial interference and subsequently the threat of Russian invasion should the people continue to view their future in the West.

It is the way we are headed if we give Putin yet another win. The regime in Russia seems to be stuck in the 70s. And if they get away with this, Putin or whoever takes the throne after him will come back in 5/10 years for more land.

 

[Godfather]

A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.

Weimar was hardly flourishing. Hyperinflation until 1924 with several revolts. Only then Weimar recovered economically until 1929. So a whopping 5 years when people lived under relative stability.

 

[Sarni]

Tomorrow is second round of talks, speculations here is that Russia want Crimea and for Luzhansk and Donetsk to be considered independent republics, plus affirmation of Ukraine neutrality (whatever that means in their understanding). No word on whether they actually want change of government in Ukraine if the East is basically returned to Russia.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

A Versailles arrangement would not be the end of the world.

What was imposed on Germany in 1918 was less than what Germany imposed on France in 1871. And Weimar was a flourishing state until the 1930s.

?? No offense, but I think you watched too many movies about the roaring 20s in good old Germany. Those were horrible times and by no means a flourishing state, it was a failing and suffering state full of anger, poverty and social problems.
Can't believe people are relativizing Versailles impact on the 20th century.

Edit:
To clarify, it is of utter importance to completely integrate and help Russia once Putin is gone (he won't anytime soon).

 

[Godfather]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

Yes to your last question I fear

 

[MoskvaRed]

On a side note, I’m tired of these 70 something pseudo boomers with authoritarian dreams who are completely out of touch with needs of the millennials fecking it up for us. Every fecking where we look some septuagenarian octogenarian living in dark times of 80s trying to rule with religious or nationalist fervour where as the main issues of our times are not those but rather climate, globalisation and income inequality.

how many years do we have to bear this out of touch policy design? Until the money hoarder boomers who back them die?
fecking cnuts


sorry for the rant.

Putin is definitely a cnut but we should avoid the trap of thinking that all current problems are down to him and his immediate circle of ageing cronies. Whoever comes next in Russia, even if ostensibly more liberal, will still inherit the various, centuries -old neuroses of the Russian state. It’s a mistake we in the West made around the end of the Cold War when we assumed the tensions had been down to Communist ideology when in fact it had instead largely been traditional Russian great power imperial policies in a different guise. It will always be awkward to reach a stable, long-term accommodation with Russia.

 

[Zehner]

You do know the EU is still buying gas from Russia ?

Yes. And if the conflict goes on, that's most likely the next sanction on the way. Still, even without that, it seems Russia's economy is already crippled.

 

[RedC]

Did you see his video of him escaping from Kiev? He's on a train with refugees. It really brings the reality of war home.

Probably copped a few nice feels on his way out.

 

[UpWithRivers]

My view on the whole situation for what its worth. The whole thing is about ideologies. Democracy vs dictatorship. Its been like this for years. Nato/EU has pushed east towards Russia for years. First they dissolved the Soviet Union then they took over Czech, Poland etc. Russia could do fk all about it but they managed to secure Belarus as a puppet state and Ukraine (these two countries are the biggest main countries on their border). But then Ukraine's Russian puppet fell to Zelenskyy. This resulted in Ukraine charging Russia a fortune for their gas pipes which resulted in them having to go around and through seabed's (Nordstrom etc). Then Ukraine pushed to join Nato. This happened in 2014. Russia has always been adamant that they would not stand for this on their border. Like the US wouldn't stand for Russia in Cuba. Ukraine also has massive gas reserves which would massively affect their GDP. Zelenskyy starting handing out contracts to BP etc to get the gas because Ukraine cant afford the infrastructure to do it themselves. So Russia response was to take out Georgia and get Crimea. Ukraine responded by cutting off Crimea to water which made Russia have to ship it in which is a logistical nightmare and costs a fortune. There are a million reasons but thats what has culminated in Russia starting this war.

Now this is not a pro Russia viewpoint. They are still a bunch of cnts. My point being that the viewpoint pushed by the West that Putin is just a crazy fker thats lost his mind is not exactly true. They keep pushing this theory that he wants to take over the whole of Ukraine. This cant be true. Its an impossibility. They have learned that from Iraq and Afghanistan etc. You cannot hold a country. But you can fk it up. And thats what he will do. Its a big fk you to the West. If I cant have Ukraine then you wont either. He will bomb the sht out of it. Disable it and withdraw to the borders. He will hold Crimea and the area North by the river to control the water and he will control the east. These areas are next to Russia and hold the majority of the gas and the access to the ports. Thats where he will stop. He is not going to Nuke anyone or go into Poland etc. That would be suicide.

Thats my theory anyway. Everyone needs to chill out and stop building bunkers. Its bad for your mental health. Lets help Ukraine and do what we can but lets keep our sanity while we do it.

 

[nimic]

Two random Tweets:

Evoking the massacre of 33 thousand Jews in an attempt to exterminate an entire people seems... iffy. This is terrible, but this isn't that.

 

[Frosty]

Weimar was hardly flourishing. Hyperinflation until 1924 with several revolts. Only then Weimar recovered economically until 1929. So a whopping 5 years when people lived under relative stability.

Probably not the place to engage in more debate but the arts, sciences, cultural side of Weimar Germany was well ahead of UK and France, and I would say that there was a lot which was and wasn't done to lead to you know who in Weimar that was not directly connected to Versailles.

 

[Sarni]

Without a full scale war, you mean? It’s impossible, innit? Best case scenario is all parties agree a truce and settle some sort of splitting… after that, it will however be a cold war scenario until Putin goes, in a way or the other (he is 70yo, not 50…)

I just cannot imagine a situation where Russia retreats, basically returns Crimea to Ukraine (which they have proclaimed as part of Russia for the last 8 years), admit Luzhansk and Donetsk are part of Ukraine and this ends like that. Either there is split and middle ground or this will continue for a long time with millions dying and there being very little left of Ukraine.

 

[fergieisold]

Maybe keep that guys vids off here, proper seedy background.

source? Nothing on wiki?

 

[Frosty]

?? No offense, but I think you watched too many movies about the roaring 20s in good old Germany. Those were horrible times and by no means a flourishing state, it was a failing and suffering state full of anger, poverty and social problems.
Can't believe people are relativizing Versailles impact on the 20th century.

Very happy to take this into DMs or another thread to avoid derailing, but bar the USA you could make the same points about France and especially the UK at that point.

 

[Rightnr]

Tomorrow is second round of talks, speculations here is that Russia want Crimea and for Luzhansk and Donetsk to be considered independent republics, plus affirmation of Ukraine neutrality (whatever that means in their understanding).

If they wanted 'only' that, they wouldn't be invading all of Ukraine. And in any case, sanctions are here to stay. I'd be amazed if European citizens forget this so easily.

On another note, I'd be very curious what happens in the Hungary elections which I think are in April. Orban is one of Putin's buddies and so his campaign and those who run against him will be an indication of how this war will change European politics.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Tomorrow is second round of talks, speculations here is that Russia want Crimea and for Luzhansk and Donetsk to be considered independent republics, plus affirmation of Ukraine neutrality (whatever that means in their understanding). No word on whether they actually want change of government in Ukraine if the East is basically returned to Russia.

them not joining EU/NATO