Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Loads of fake footage flying around from previous conflicts and even video games.
May well have been posted already, but a reminder for people to pause for a second and consider the veracity of any source they're linking to is no bad thing. I've seen at least one of the highlighted tweets posted here.

Ukraine conflict: Further false images shared online

https://www.bbc.com/news/60528276
 
Twisted_Woody said:
Maybe this is idealistic, but would a separate thread with a list of all the posters nearby who are able and willing to help be useful?

I've noticed a few posters offering aid, money for shelters rides etc. I've already lost track - I can't imagine viewing this forum in a war zone.

I'm sure we have Ukrainian members of this place and if they are looking for help it has to be easy to find.

My idea is basically a separate thread and a maybe a news item at the top of the page.

Thoughts? @Niall @Raoul @golden_blunder @Penna
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Like a "Ukraine practical help" thread? I like that idea.
 
Why did India abstain from voting on the security council resolution? It doesnt surrise me that China abstained but I thought India had more integrity than that
 
Rightnr said:
This is nonsense. Israel has mandatory conscription for both men and women. Based on what someone wrote on here, it's the same in Norway, I think.

And explain to me how it's better to send the 45-year-old father of two instead of a fit 25-year-old woman to fight when you don't need to be a body-builder to shoot a gun or throw a Molotov.

All in all, this is not about political correctness, it's the opposite. What if the children had their dad only?
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Just got off the phone with Putin and he’s going to pause the war whilst you crowdsource a fairer conscription policy.
 
Pintu said:
How good are civilians forced to fight without prior training?
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Better than nobody, but they will use people based on their experience.

Worth remembering that there are a lot of reports that the Russian army is very poorly trained and disciplined, and that there is evidence that a lot of soldiers they are sending in have minimal training and combat experience themselves.

Just an innate fight to defend your home will be a massive equaliser against someone who has no clue where they are or what they are fighting for.
 
Carolina Red said:
I really am shocked sometimes at some folks conception of what a war, especially a war for national survival, entails.
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Feels like a few people are maybe just realising what citizenship might one day entail. There are benefits and then there are responsibilities.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
This guy has been on the money so far. The worry is Russia escalates to trying to level the city now, looks like they were rebuffed viciously last night.
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Levelling the city is a no go as it will mean targeting civilians en masse, which will lead to involvement of nearby countries.
 
Wibble said:
There is no upload video button. You can embed media hosted elsewhere. The menu looks a bit this ...v then select media and paste the url of the video.
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I have a line of buttons above my text box, for "bold" letter or italics or underlined, smileys, and there's a little image looking thing, thought that was it. But they're all gray, if I click on them nothing happens. Probably my iPad safari browser.

When you say it looks like "this", I'm not sure what you mean!...v?

Anyway its not important I almost never want to upload a video.
 
Can't help but feel that Putin is so hard faced he will resort to indiscriminate measures rather than carry the embarrassment of being rebuffed for the world to see.

Honestly didn't think we would see this kind of conflict in Europe again. Our species is a cancer to the world, doesn't matter how far knowledge and society takes us we make the same mistakes.
 
lilcurt said:
Can't help but feel that Putin is so hard faced he will resort to indiscriminate measures rather than carry the embarrassment of being rebuffed for the world to see.

Honestly didn't think we would see this kind of conflict in Europe again. Our species is a cancer to the world, doesn't matter how far knowledge and society takes us we make the same mistakes.
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If he crosses the line further, NATO will intervene. Genocide will not happen.
 
Use of certain arms could be classified as the use of WMDs. US will not allow for that. In the meantime arms for the Ukranian army will continue to be supplied.
 
So it sounds like Kyiv was defended overnight, but some smaller urban centres may have fallen. Melitopol is one:

 
Rektsanwalt said:
Neither will happen and if genocide happens, NATO won't intervene. We won't risk armageddon for the ukranian people.
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You are deeply mistaken. NATO will intervene and has been already. Supply of arms means resisting to Putin's plans. His soldiers are being killed by weapons supplied by NATO. The West called his bluff. Of course it is not the time yet to go all out, but NATO-Russia agreement has already been cancelled unilaterally by the West.
 
TMDaines said:
Feels like a few people are maybe just realising what citizenship might one day entail. There are benefits and then there are responsibilities.
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:lol:OK Churchill, we're all right behind you.
 
Worth remembering how poor Moldova is as a whole, and how pathetic the UK response has been with visas only being issued in extremely limited circumstances:

 
Water Melon said:
Levelling the city is a no go as it will mean targeting civilians en masse, which will lead to involvement of nearby countries.
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That’s the hope but clear missiles have been hitting residential targets in Kiev. Kharkiv and Mariupol looks they have been shelled as well.
 
Jippy said:
:lol:OK Churchill, we're all right behind you.
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You can mock me all you want, but this is a serious point. A lot of people move around the world acquiring citizenship as they do, but then are affronted by the notion that they may be bound to perform a service for that country one day. It’s bad enough in the UK how many people act like it is a complete affront to perform jury service. We have already seen cases this week of Brazilian footballers who acquired Ukrainian citizenship to play for the national team now shocked that they aren’t allowed to leave the country when there is a full-scale invasion. What were they expecting? This is what acquiring citizenship ultimately means.

On a personal level, my wife is now a Ukrainian and British dual national, and so is our son. One of the reasons we had a slight hesitation to get Ukrainian citizenship for him is because we knew exactly this could happen one day. Ukraine and Russia have been on the precipice of a full-scale for eight years and we had no doubt that he would be in scope of possible national service and conscription should the time come. That’s ultimately a decision he will have to make as an adult.
 
There's a link now in the help Ukraine thread where anyone willing can donate.
 
TMDaines said:
You can mock me all you want, but this is a serious point. A lot of people move around the world acquiring citizenship as they do, but then are affronted by the notion that they may be bound to perform a service for that country one day. It’s bad enough in the UK how many people act like it is a complete affront to perform jury service. We have already seen cases this week of Brazilian footballers who acquired Ukrainian citizenship to play for the national team now shocked that they aren’t allowed to leave the country and are forced to stay and fight. What were they expecting? This is what acquiring citizenship ultimately means.

On a personal level, my wife is now a Ukrainian and British dual national, and so is our son. One of the reasons we had a slight hesitation to get Ukrainian citizenship for him is because we knew exactly this could happen one day. Ukraine and Russia have been on the precipice of a full-scale for eight years and we had no doubt that he would be in scope of possible national service and conscription should the time come. That’s ultimately a decision he will have to make as an adult.
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OK, fair enough, I was just viewing you as a British poster and didn't realise your ties to Ukraine through for your wife and son. I can appreciate now why you have such strong feelings on this and obviously the citizenship question for your son must've been very difficult.

My issues were twofold- there are clearly plenty of keyboard warriors willing to condemn Ukrainians to death by insisting they fight or are cowards. Whether they'd stand up and fight is a very different question.

The other is my loathing of the British government and it's institutions and the prospect of dying in their name, say defending the Royal family. Clearly framed through the lens of defending your home and family is different and I get that.

I've also just moved country and don't feel such strong ties to my new home yet and am not a proper citizen either (eg I can't buy property here).
 
hobbers said:
Did no one tell the Russian military strategists that tanks are not designed for urban warfare?
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You’d think that they would know that after the disastrous strum of Grozny in 1994/95 where Russian tanks got trapped in the city.
 
Beans said:
I have a line of buttons above my text box, for "bold" letter or italics or underlined, smileys, and there's a little image looking thing, thought that was it. But they're all gray, if I click on them nothing happens. Probably my iPad safari browser.

When you say it looks like "this", I'm not sure what you mean!...v?

Anyway its not important I almost never want to upload a video.
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Click the cog/settings icon and that will activate all other icons.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
Maybe it's worth having a discussion about NATO because beyond Putin's theater of the absurd, there are lots of misguided people focused on the boogieman NATO.

Here's the history of NATO aggression, Kosovo in 1999, Afghanistan in 2001, and Libya in 2011. These were actions mostly justified due to major terror situations that had to be addressed. Am I missing anything? Now, I'm not trying to counter the Putin rhetoric which is complete nonsense. The west never even considered invading Russia, ever. I feel it's important to figure out how to respond to the kooky anti-war folks that lack a substantive argument against NATO. - Maybe it's best to set aside the nuclear weapons aspect in this exchange of ideas

I just don't see the mainstream media dealing with this issue.

Yeah, NATO members who participated in Afghanistan and Iraq committed blatant war crimes as were exposed by the 100,000's of Wikileaks files, but NATO's conduct in Europe and in particular Ukraine seems to be poised to simply prevent conflict.

It's worth repeating, for most of us it's common sense, but not for everyone.
Example: More than 50% of US Republicans polled favor Putin over Biden, which is incredibly insane.
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It may be worth it but in a separate thread, this one has moved far beyond discussing that point.
 
First they don't even send in a large proportion of the forces they amassed at the border, but a lot of new recruits with old equipment, then they apparently let them do some risky operations, that mostly seem to fail.
This doesn't make any sense at all to me, especially as every analyst stresses that time matters and they need to win quickly...someone who has gone 'full tonto' would probably just send in the best soldiers and equipment he has to cause as much destruction as possible, no?
I'm still not convinced that this war isn't just some weird kind of negotiation tactic for Putin.
 
harms said:
You’d think that they would know that after the disastrous strum of Grozny in 1994/95 where Russian tanks got trapped in the city.
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And everyone knows what happened after.

Looks like Russia is going for high risk high reward. Perhaps wanting to show how easy it is to take Ukraine, or perhaps it's concerns about consequences if this isn't sorted out quickly.
 
Zippy20 said:
First they don't even send in a large proportion of the forces they amassed at the border, but a lot of new recruits with old equipment, then they apparently let them do some risky operations, that mostly seem to fail.
This doesn't make any sense at all to me, especially as every analyst stresses that time matters and they need to win quickly...someone who has gone 'full tonto' would probably just send in the best soldiers and equipment he has to cause as much destruction as possible, no?
I'm still not convinced that this war isn't just some weird kind of negotiation tactic for Putin.
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What's the upside of this type of negotiation tactic?
 
Ukrainian people should be very proud of themselves. If they are able to hold the city centre of Kiev one more day it turns into a totally different war than Russia expected, and the Russian army will gradually loose power on the ground because of vulnerable logistics.

Even If Russia is able to go all the way in Kiev, they will struggle to secure their own forces and consolidate if the Ukrainian people decide to continue their fight in the streets; guerrilla warfare. Russia will never be able to control Ukraine if the Ukrainian stand together and continue fighting. Europe and US will guarantee support with weapons and money.

If Russia starts really really heavy bombing (by airplanes) causing a lot of civilian damage and death, I think it’s a fair chance NATO will consider to secure Ukrainian airspace.

The best Russia can achieve in this war is that Ukraine emits some territory in eastern Ukraine. Everything else is a dead end for Russia, and they’ll realise it very soon.

I think Ukraine should consider to “exchange” the troublesome territory in the east against Russian withdrawal. Ukraine will anyway have achieved a lot and benefit in the longer run, and Russia can pretend they achieved what they wanted.

Ukraine can then continue to move towards Europe and be part of the European family without worrying about Russia. Russia is check mate.
 
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