Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Rightnr said:
Oh, I'm not belittling you or at least wasn't trying to.

But when you see stuff like what's happening now, unity is crucial. So my post is more about conveying the sense of feeling.

I also need to point out that a lot of what I said is pure logic and you don't to have lived there to make the same points.

It's mostly about hypocrisy and propaganda from the Russian side whose elite enjoys the benefits of capitalism but then uses its faults to ratchet conflict and control their miserable population.
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All good, no worries
 
Fascists of the world coming together

https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...t-who-condemned-russian-invasion-2022-02-24/?

Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro disauthorized his Vice President Hamilton Mourao on Thursday for saying that Brazil opposed the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Mourao earlier on Thursday condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine. His comments went well beyond a statement by Brazil's Foreign Ministry expressing concern about Russia's military operations and urging a diplomatic solution.

Bolsonaro, speaking on a webcast to his supporters, said only he the president could speak about the crisis between Russia and Ukraine, and it was not Mourao's business.
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IWat said:
Slightly concerned that those with no experience of weapons will do more harm than good.

If it was as easy as throwing weapons at people and telling them to crack on, we wouldn't bother with armies.
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Sort of a needs must at this point surely
 
I think this is how Ukraine have to play it now really?

Guerilla style fighting, quick assaults then retreat. Keep the russians guessing.

The issue is eventually they'll get so pissed off they start destroying the city.

This could get worse before it gets better. Especially if Civilians are involved, I wonder whether the Russians will impose shoot on sight? sheesh.
 
IWat said:
Slightly concerned that those with no experience of weapons will do more harm than good.

If it was as easy as throwing weapons at people and telling them to crack on, we wouldn't bother with armies.
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If anything it’s just going to increase civilian casualties. Putin has an easy response of simply firing when fired apon.
 


I fear the only way to take it is massive bombardment. That's what tempts NATO intervention though and I'm guessing that's the only reason Putin has shown some restraint so far.
 
Shakesey said:
Can Ukraine beat Russia? No.
Will someone send in their armies to help Ukraine? No. Obviously not. Who wants WW3?
Should Ukraine give in to Putin's demands or die defending their land against an unstoppable army? I'll let you answer that one yourself. I, for one, know my "Chamberlainian" answer.
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I think you should come out of this thread. Very upsetting to read
 
Simbo said:


Seen a few posts like this today.

Its fairly normal, there's already brits/americans/scananavians/etc already embedded with the Ukrainian army.
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Is it allowed? Are there anti-mercenary laws in Canada etc. or is he free to go & goin a military conflict in another country? Good on him anyway.
 
Denis79 said:
I have fought in a war, where the right of my country to excist was at stake. I have lost my home, family and friends to grenades and bullets. I can't speak for everyone but It's not absolutely everything like you claim. There is a price for everything.
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Perhaps not for some. Possibly depends where you're from too. For me, absolutely. If it looked existential I'd be fine with it. We all die anyway, may as well do something useful. And I extend that to the country I renounced citizenship of.
 
IWat said:
Slightly concerned that those with no experience of weapons will do more harm than good.

If it was as easy as throwing weapons at people and telling them to crack on, we wouldn't bother with armies.
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It says AS WELL AS the army not instead.

Basically all hands to the pump now and sure there will be soldiers giving some simple advice, they're not throwing civilians with a Molotov on the front. If it was defend your town/country/lifestyle or not, got to do it?
 
JJ12 said:
Sort of a needs must at this point surely
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True, but they're going to end up killing each other having not been trained on trigger discipline or how to avoid friendly fire etc

Granted against conscripts they might be able to do something, but for a well trained force a rag tag bunch with assault rifles is going to be easy pickings.
 
Those scenes of the Chechens make my blood curdle. Letting those animals in an urban setting with civilian children and women won't be pretty.

And one more thing about providing Russia with guarantees Ukraine won't join NATO. How did that go for Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons? You just cannot trust empires, new and old, to behave cordially.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
It says AS WELL AS the army not instead.

Basically all hands to the pump now and sure there will be soldiers giving some simple advice, they're not throwing civilians with a Molotov on the front. If it was defend your town/country/lifestyle or not, got to do it?
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Yeah that's almost worse because you've got the risk of these people inadvertently killing the men and women who know what they're doing.

If they're going that way, gorilla tactics from history seems the way to go.
 
Rightnr said:
Those scenes of the Chechens make my blood curdle. Letting those animals in an urban setting with civilian children and women won't be pretty.

And one more thing about providing Russia with guarantees Ukraine won't join NATO. How did that go for Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons? You just cannot trust empires, new and old, to behave cordially.
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It's a disgrace, those animals are just pure bloodthirsty.
 
Wife just told me the Russians bombed and orphanage and kindergarten in Okhtyrka Town and loads of kids died. If this is true, then this is what the Ukrainians are fighting for, for their people, their home, and against tyranny.
 
I seriously worry for Kyiv. They have to get some diplomatic solution or compromise. I get it, they wanna resist. But this could flatten Kyiv.
 
Simbo said:


I fear the only way to take it is massive bombardment. That's what tempts NATO intervention though and I'm guessing that's the only reason Putin has shown some restraint so far.
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Don’t think NATO are going to intervene in any case.
 
Spark said:
Nice one, thanks! Is the Chinese system used in parallel to SWIFT? The Chinese economy is obviously much bigger than 0.5% of the world's, so assume that the vast majority of China (including the government?) use SWIFT. Therefore, what's the purpose of CIPS? China's attempt to have a competing system?

My point being, up until now there's been relatively little pressure and will for Russia/China/etc move from SWIFT (understandable, from what you've said and from what I've read in the last 30 mins). But an event like this could see a large impetus from Russia and China to force CIPS to become a major player. E.g. China mandates that all companies in China must use CIPS as the primary method - as they're not banned from SWIFT it means that they'll still be doing business worldwide, but could force those 11k banks that use SWIFT to also adopt CIPS. I've probably missed something fundamental there, but that's how I imagine it works?

Basically, I can kind of see why some countries wouldn't want to boot Russia out of SWIFT as it could have seriously significant long term consequences. Obviously Germany et al. don't want to write off the debt Russian entities owe them, too...
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Yep, China is part of SWIFT too and CIPS is their attempt to create a competing system. Ideally from their POV a strong CIPS system would reduce their reliance on SWIFT, which would help prevent their banks from threat of being cut-off in the future as well.

Another key point about SWIFT is that the large majority of transactions on it tend to take place in US Dollars, which wouldn't be the case in other systems. And that means that SWIFT being the pre-eminent system benefits the US, who want their currency to be the one most of the world does business in as that gives them a lot of influence on the world economy. So the long term consequences you're talking about would particularly apply to them.
 
This unfortunately will either be a massacre or they will just wipe Kiev from the face of the Earth.
 
Shakesey said:
Can Ukraine beat Russia? No.
Will someone send in their armies to help Ukraine? No. Obviously not. Who wants WW3?
Should Ukraine give in to Putin's demands or die defending their land against an unstoppable army? I'll let you answer that one yourself. I, for one, know my "Chamberlainian" answer.
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(Possibly) can't win, don't try.

Brilliant.
 
"The only possible way is diplomacy" says Sarkozy after meeting with Macron who consulted former presidents.

 
LilyWhiteSpur said:
Romania is part of NATO, military or civilian it will put more pressure on them. I doubt a war ship under no fire would accidentally fire at a tanker. As above a Turkish ship was hit yesterday, no love lost between Russia and Turkey.
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I do think its accidental.
 
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