Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Would love to know more on the Russian side of the story. Always 3 sides to any story, the two opposing sides and the truth.

I’m sure the West is portrayed just as badly there as Russians are portrayed here.

Let’s be honest though, the western leaders aren’t exactly saints and in the UK we’ve also got a terrible history of colonisation and invading other countries which has always been celebrated until more recent years.

I’m not trying to defend Russia in anyway here. Just merely highlighting that propoganda is just as rife here in the west.

At the end of the day we’re all just pawns on both sides while these leaders play a game of real life risk.

Thoughts and prayers with all those innocent people affected by the conflict in Ukraine. Hopefully a solution to this mess is found soon, however confidence in that is disappearing by the hour.

Don’t have a great deal of faith in our Russian backed and funded Tory government to do much either. Although I’m sure Boris will say the right things to appease his supporters and make it look like we’re doing something to help.
 
Carolina Red said:
They should definitely have mined the harbor... the problem with the rail/runway/bridge destruction though, is you don't want to remove those resources from your own use until absolutely necessary. I do completely agree though, that as they retreat they need to go scorched earth and remove that infrastructure from Russian hands.
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I think that's not entirely possible in urban areas in 2022.

Roads are interconnected, and blowing up one bridge or two won't impede 21st century war machine. And Russian aren't in it for the resources, at least not in the short run.
 
Carolina Red said:
They should definitely have mined the harbor... the problem with the rail/runway/bridge destruction though, is you don't want to remove those resources from your own use until absolutely necessary. I do completely agree though, that as they retreat they need to go scorched earth and remove that infrastructure from Russian hands.
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The problem with scorched earth is that it will negatively affect the local population, not all of whom will have managed to escape. It made sense for the Soviet Union in WW2, but partly that was because they were defending against a war of extermination, and so nearly any sacrifice seemed worth it. I know people like to say they'll fight to the last man, but very rarely does that actually happen.
 
Gehrman said:
What do you want? Western boots on the ground? Direct war between Russia and the US?
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People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
 
Sky1981 said:
It's not about paying for it, but the hypocrisy of it all.

You sanction Iran because they're radical? Terrorist? etc but when your gas got hit you welcome them back with open arms? So all those sanctions for something evil that Iran supposedly did, is now forgiven because we need oil?
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I think the sanctions against iran are massively unfair. Iran doesn't do anything everyone else hasn't done.
 
red4ever 79 said:
People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
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Thats not going to work. Nobody wants what is happening in Ukranian cities, to happen to their cities.
 
red4ever 79 said:
People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
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The Ukranians will give you a gun if you drive there now. Go ahead.
 
ThehatchetMan said:
Would love to know more on the Russian side of the story. Always 3 sides to any story, the two opposing sides and the truth.

I’m sure the West is portrayed just as badly there as Russians are portrayed here.

Let’s be honest though, the western leaders aren’t exactly saints and in the UK we’ve also got a terrible history of colonisation and invading other countries which has always been celebrated until more recent years.

I’m not trying to defend Russia in anyway here. Just merely highlighting that propoganda is just as rife here in the west.
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Yes, but for once this is all beside the point. There is a fullscale invasion by some accounts underway. The West's record is academic in the unfolding situation. I just want a source for good updates.

https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2022/2/24

From the 12 minute mark there is a good discussion of events unfolding.
 
Sky1981 said:
I think that's not entirely possible in urban areas in 2022.

Roads are interconnected, and blowing up one bridge or two won't impede 21st century war machine. And Russian aren't in it for the resources, at least not in the short run.
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Bridges have weight limits. You remove / weaken the ones that can support an armored advance.
 
red4ever 79 said:
People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
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This just isn't possible. If you put NATO boots on the ground, you've started World War 3. Best case scenario we get a limited, conventional war, which is still going to be terrible and increase the pressure in Europe and the world up to as of yet unseen levels. Worst case scenario is you've just ended civilization, because it involves two sides with a combined total of many thousands of nukes.

As for standing together, that's sort of the point of NATO (or at least ideally it is, sometimes it's not quite as defensive). He could target more, for sure, but he can't and won't invade a NATO country. Which is why Ukraine wanted to join in the first place.
 
nimic said:
The problem with scorched earth is that it will negatively affect the local population, not all of whom will have managed to escape. It made sense for the Soviet Union in WW2, but partly that was because they were defending against a war of extermination, and so nearly any sacrifice seemed worth it. I know people like to say they'll fight to the last man, but very rarely does that actually happen.
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I'm aware. There's always different answers when weighing a cost/benefit analysis, especially when armchair generaling an ongoing war. I simply posted what my personal conclusion would be.
 
nimic said:
This just isn't possible. If you put NATO boots on the ground, you've started World War 3. Best case scenario we get a limited, conventional war, which is still going to be terrible and increase the pressure in Europe and the world up to as of yet unseen levels. Worst case scenario is you've just ended civilization, because it involves two sides with a combined total of many thousands of nukes.

As for standing together, that's sort of the point of NATO (or at least ideally it is, sometimes it's not quite as defensive). He could target more, for sure, but he can't and won't invade a NATO country. Which is why Ukraine wanted to join in the first place.
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Forget nuke, a conventional war could escalate very fast and destroy 1-2 surrounding cities
 
nimic said:
All this, and he's still blaming the EU and NATO. Is he actually in the pocket of the Russians?
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He's a dickhead, but in fairness Corbyn and Abbot were also blaming the west for the Ukraine crisis just a fortnite ago. I don't think these people are paid shills, just like to be contrarian.
 
red4ever 79 said:
People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
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How many deaths are acceptable to make a stand and defend Ukraine? That's the calculation that matters here. WW3 level casualties is a heavy price.
 
red4ever 79 said:
People need to stand together and push back. Once he takes Ukraine, he will target more. Soon others will become the minority. All you hear is sanctions, sanctions bla bla bla. Waste of space. Get boots on the ground and defend
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You realise the second a NATO soldier's boots hit the ground, the war will likely be over in a few hours with devastating consequences for all of us.
 
nimic said:
You don't see the irony here? You could have just ignored his comment, but instead you decided to make a big point out of it, ending in the condescending "attaboy", just to score some internet points. And all this while people are dying in a war.

Maybe he and I are misguided, but you're sure as hell no better.
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Good point tbh, I'm a dick too. A bit angry I suppose.
 
@harms hope you are safe!

Have you heard of any protests in Moscow today? Seen a couple of videos popping on my feed but not sure if true.
 
Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK holding a press conference at the moment and he has a list of sanctions in his hand, the war has started so it’s about time the leaders start acting on these treats.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
To be fair, it's not 1944 anymore. Taking out a bridge will result in only a short delay these days. A few hours at most.
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I’m aware of this as well. But it buys time, and expends Russian resources. It also creates a choke point that can be exploited to maximize Russian losses.
 
So those mobile crematoriums will be used to cover up losses? Don't wanna show dead Russian bodies to the public?
 
Carolina Red said:
I’m aware of this as well. But it buys time, and expends Russian resources. It also creates a choke point that can be exploited to maximize Russian losses.
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It doesn't take much time, though. They have those pontoon bridge vehicles that can setup in moments (I don't know how long it actually takes) to make a crossing. Plus, they can undeploy and redeploy, so no resources are really used.
 
So latest official news seems to be that Russians are nearing Kyiv in bigger numbers and there's heavy airport fighting going on. But not everything is verified.
 
Any Russian here? I would like to hear Russian point of view what they say about this war, and reasons behind it !
 
Classical Mechanic said:
That Rob Lee guy says that Russia were using non-presicion missiles in built up areas from the off
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Their military doesn't even have a lot of precision weaponry, it is not a concern for them and too expensive. The MRLS and their masses of artillary are bad enough but look up what a TOS-1 can do...

harms said:
If I’m not going to appear here for a few days than I’m probably detained, although we’ll see how strict the police is going to be today.
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I'd expect Moscow to be cracking down on dissenters even far more than normal from now on? Stay safe, I'm sure you dont' need telling to be careful what you say on social media from now on.


nimic said:
All this, and he's still blaming the EU and NATO. Is he actually in the pocket of the Russians?
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I have few doubts personally. His links to Trump/Bannon/Assange etc puts him right in the thick of it.
 
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