Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Bosnian_fan said:
Israel's colonialism is really not complicated and nuanced.

It is what it is. Really simple, genocidal project, akin to holocaust in many ways. Or to "denazification" of Ukraine.

Calling it any other names, putting as many different shades on it as anyone wants, won't hide what it truly is.
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I'm so sick of this, honestly. Exactly how many missiles did Ukraine shoot on Russia before the invasion? How many terrorist attacks did Ukraine commit in Russia before that? Does the ruling party in Ukraine have the objective of killing all Russians set in their agenda?

Obviously nothing of that justifies what Israel is doing in Gaza, not at all and I want to make extra clear that I don't think it does in any way, shape or form. But pretending these circumstances don't exist is so fecking stupid. Practice what you preach and show some self-reflection.
 
Zehner said:
I'm so sick of this, honestly. Exactly how many missiles did Ukraine shoot on Russia before the invasion? How many terrorist attacks did Ukraine commit in Russia before that? Does the ruling party in Ukraine have the objective of killing all Russians set in their agenda?
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You talked about nuance and 'complexity' (although there is nothing complex about a settler colonial project), but never consider why those rockets were being fired in the first place, like it all started from rocket firings.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
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Must be confusing time for pro Ukrainian right wingers that supported Trump/Musk in the lead up to the election (Visegrad24 types) , wonder if a big enough rift can happen in the right wing movement over this to seriously damage it.
 
Fenômeno said:
You talked about nuance and 'complexity' (although there is nothing complex about a settler colonial project), but never consider why those rockets were being fired in the first place, like it all started from rocket firings.
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Go ahead, explain to me what justifies targeting civilians and planning to commit genocide (as in "kill all jews").
 
Fenômeno said:
Must be confusing time for pro Ukrainian right wingers that supported Trump/Musk in the lead up to the election (Visegrad24 types) , wonder if a big enough rift can happen in the right wing movement over this to seriously damage it.
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It’s not only confusing but already damaging politically - in Poland there’s presidential campaign with elections in May, Duda exhausted his two terms so the right wing party (which is actually behind Visegrad24) has a new candidate and he’s polling quite shitty for many reasons, but one of them is taking blows for Trump’s actions. They were so open about their ties to Trump cabinet, triumphed when he won, linked themselves so closely to his conservative revolution and now he’s fecked them over big time. Beautiful sight tbh
 
Here's JD Vance admitting that the US has run out of weapons - and thus choices - the real reason they want an "end" to the conflict.

US has depleted stockpiles - and cannot produce replacements quickly enough

Was laugh out off this thread when I pointed this out a year / year and a half ago




“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

― Henry Kissinger
 
Suedesi said:
Here's JD Vance admitting that the US has run out of weapons - and thus choices - the real reason they want an "end" to the conflict.

US has depleted stockpiles - and cannot produce replacements quickly enough

Was laugh out off this thread when I pointed this out a year / year and a half ago




“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

― Henry Kissinger
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You weren't laughed out of the thread for pointing out that the war puts stress on America's own stockpiles. If I recall correctly, the numbers you provided didn't correspond to official government documents.
 
Suedesi said:
Here's JD Vance admitting that the US has run out of weapons - and thus choices - the real reason they want an "end" to the conflict.

US has depleted stockpiles - and cannot produce replacements quickly enough

Was laugh out off this thread when I pointed this out a year / year and a half ago




“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

― Henry Kissinger
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As long as thousands of Abrams are parked in the desert that's just a convenient lie. Stress on stockpiles? Yes sure. Depleted? Not at all
 
Zehner said:
Go ahead, explain to me what justifies targeting civilians and planning to commit genocide (as in "kill all jews").
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You seem to be more outraged about 'plans' to commit genocide than the actual genocide and ethnic cleansing happening right now. I don't condone targeting civilians but understand desperate actions by desperate people who are on the brink of being wiped out and losing their land/homes. However, we are about to derail this thread so will leave it there, happy to continue the discussion in the Israel/Palestine thread.
 
Red Star One said:
It’s not only confusing but already damaging politically - in Poland there’s presidential campaign with elections in May, Duda exhausted his two terms so the right wing party (which is actually behind Visegrad24) has a new candidate and he’s polling quite shitty for many reasons, but one of them is taking blows for Trump’s actions. They were so open about their ties to Trump cabinet, triumphed when he won, linked themselves so closely to his conservative revolution and now he’s fecked them over big time. Beautiful sight tbh
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Cheers for the insight, i agree it is quite satisfying situation in this regard in an overall rubbish scenario.
 
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Suedesi said:
Here's JD Vance admitting that the US has run out of weapons - and thus choices - the real reason they want an "end" to the conflict.

US has depleted stockpiles - and cannot produce replacements quickly enough

Was laugh out off this thread when I pointed this out a year / year and a half ago




“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

― Henry Kissinger
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He didn't even say what he claimed and he is a notorious lier anyway. You seem to have a fetish for being laughed out off this thread if you return with such a post.

The ide alone that Russia could outproduce the US and Europe. The GDP of Texas alone is as high as Russia's.
 
Fenômeno said:
You seem to be more outraged about 'plans' to commit genocide than the actual genocide and ethnic cleansing happening right now. I don't condone targeting civilians but understand desperate actions by desperate people who are on the brink of being wiped out and losing their land/homes. However, we are about to derail this thread so will leave it there, happy to continue the discussion in the Israel/Palestine thread.
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Such a cheap argument. I have condemned Israel's actions in almost every post of mine on this discussion. You are likening Israel to Russia but Ukraine never showed any aggression towards Russia, the war Putin waged on them was completely unprovoked since they posed no threat to him, his territories or his population at all. It's a fact that you can't say the same about Hamas whatever the reasons are.

And again: I condemn the actions of Israel. But in the same sense I distinguish between a murderer and a serial killer, I distinguish between their war and Russia's. Is that clear enough or will you try again to put words in my mouth because you are running out of arguments?
 
Zehner said:
Such a cheap argument. I have condemned Israel's actions in almost every post of mine on this discussion. You are likening Israel to Russia but Ukraine never showed any aggression towards Russia, the war Putin waged on them was completely unprovoked since they posed no threat to him, his territories or his population at all. It's a fact that you can't say the same about Hamas whatever the reasons are.

And again: I condemn the actions of Israel. But in the same sense I distinguish between a murderer and a serial killer, I distinguish between their war and Russia's. Is that clear enough or will you try again to put words in my mouth because you are running out of arguments?
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:lol: pot calling kettle black here, i never made any comment comparing the two, i was actually responding to your very own cheap/uneducated comments on the Israel/Palestine conflict. .
 
Fenômeno said:
:lol: pot calling kettle black here, i never made any comment comparing the two, i was actually responding to your very own cheap/uneducated comments on the Israel/Palestine conflict. .
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Are you being serious? You disagreed with a post of mine in which I disagreed with this quote:

It is what it is. Really simple, genocidal project, akin to holocaust in many ways. Or to "denazification" of Ukraine.
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it literally reads 'Akin to the "denazification" of Ukraine'. fecking hell.
 
Zehner said:
I'm so sick of this, honestly. Exactly how many missiles did Ukraine shoot on Russia before the invasion? How many terrorist attacks did Ukraine commit in Russia before that? Does the ruling party in Ukraine have the objective of killing all Russians set in their agenda?

Obviously nothing of that justifies what Israel is doing in Gaza, not at all and I want to make extra clear that I don't think it does in any way, shape or form. But pretending these circumstances don't exist is so fecking stupid. Practice what you preach and show some self-reflection.
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Your lack of knowledge and utterly biased view on Palestine, the causes of the conflict and how things culminated to 10/7, transpires in every single word of your post, and makes your outrage and comparisons look quite silly.

I've yet to read a German poster who doesn't have a complete nightmare when talking about Israel/Palestine.

Edit: If you wish to reply, please quote me on the Palestine thread. I don't want to derail this one.
 
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Sudesi is the perfect example of only agreeing with sources that support his worldview but completely disregard more reliable sources that do not:

For example:

Disregarding official FY25 Procurement numbers and stockpile numbers from Official DoD documents

JD Vance and Twitter accounts? Yes please.
 
So with Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator, how can they play an active role in the negotiating process when there’s a clear bias (not that that was ever going to be in doubt) towards Russia/Putin.

Can the UN, who have been utterly useless of late, weigh in? If not, what is their purpose?
 
B. Munich said:
Why would the US buy Russian oil? Aren't they now the biggest oil producer abs even export oil?

Trump can make any deal he wants. If Europeans and the Ukraine don't agree, it's as useless as if Putin doesn't agree.
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Not really true. Ukraine is doomed without the US support, and Europe will play tough but have no power to do anything, and eventually will kneel before Trump.
 
Suedesi said:
Here's JD Vance admitting that the US has run out of weapons - and thus choices - the real reason they want an "end" to the conflict.

US has depleted stockpiles - and cannot produce replacements quickly enough

Was laugh out off this thread when I pointed this out a year / year and a half ago




“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”

― Henry Kissinger
Click to expand...

Can you quote the exact phrase in that tweet that indicates that the US have run out of weapons ('depleted stockpiles')? I have read it twice now, and I can't find it.
 
B. Munich said:
Why would the US buy Russian oil? Aren't they now the biggest oil producer abs even export oil?

Trump can make any deal he wants. If Europeans and the Ukraine don't agree, it's as useless as if Putin doesn't agree.
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Russia needs money. We know US aid to Ukraine will stop, but that won't save Russia. I'm patiently waiting for the "peace deal" to become the "loan deal". Maybe buying Russia oil is how they do it, of course Trump won't actually care about taking deliver and he's established already it doesn't have to make sense, nobody will stop him... Once US-Russian relations are 'normalised' he may just go ahead and buy some government bonds "They are giving 20% return, deal of the century!!".
 
M16Red said:
I think its about money.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-shale-ukraine-idUSBRE90N0N620130124

Ukraine has large reserves of gas and oil around the Donbas, not to mention the pipelines running through it.

Major_russian_gas_pipelines_to_europe.png

That's what makes this even worse for that cnut - he's really fecked it because Europe has moved away from there number one product.

He's been siphoning the money from the sales for years into his pals pockets, just a hope that the Russian people will wake up before Poland steps in because the hatred towards the Russians is still very much alive.

I was in Czech Republic two weeks ago with two poles, two slovaks and a few chechnyans and a yank - but he doesn't count. But they were all like "its coming, we've had enough of them" they were telling me story's they've heard from Ukrainians that frankly were evil and sick.
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harms said:
If it was about money, he would've invested in Donbass infrastructure already. He's been in control of a huge chunk of it for what, 8 years?

It's not about money, it simply can't be — even if Putin didn't understand just how severe the sanctions from the West would've been for the invasion, the damage done by them would've outdone any potential profit from those gas reserves. And it's not like Russia lacks gas reserves on its own territory — developing the infrastructure (not only the factories/mines but also towns for the workers etc.) around it is a bigger issue.

Explaining Putin's actions through the lense of realpolitik (and capitalism) is a mistake that led to people (me, often, included) predict his future actions wrongly again and again.
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dove said:
I really don't think it is. Russia already has like 1/4th of entire world's gas reserves. The main reason is quite clearly the imperialism. While basically every ex-soviet country was delighted to escape from that "union", Russia have always been quite visibly disappointed by the collapse of it and blamed the west for destroying it. They have never hidden their ambitions of restoring it. Ukraine started rapidly shifting away from Russia in the last decade, and since Ukraine is obviously a major cog in the wheel for their imperialistic goals, Putin had to do something.
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M16Red said:
Bold, That just it - he was thinking he'd turn the Ukraine over in 3 days.

3 of 5 (West/South pointing) Russia's pipelines travel via Ukraine

More on just how much is in Ukraine land.
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Money.
 
Red Star One said:
It’s not only confusing but already damaging politically - in Poland there’s presidential campaign with elections in May, Duda exhausted his two terms so the right wing party (which is actually behind Visegrad24) has a new candidate and he’s polling quite shitty for many reasons, but one of them is taking blows for Trump’s actions. They were so open about their ties to Trump cabinet, triumphed when he won, linked themselves so closely to his conservative revolution and now he’s fecked them over big time. Beautiful sight tbh
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Nawrocki's horrible polling has nothing to do with Trump. He's a complete nobody, devoid of charisma, with very little experience (and his work in IPN is very heavily criticised) with ties to football hooligan groups (which of course includes ties to neo-nazis). As far as I understand, the usual explanation for why he was chosen (other than the better candidates just rejected the offer) is that Kaczyński wants to make sure that the politicians he wants are going to take control of the party after him, but it still seems braindead on every possible level. On top of that they need to pretend that he's not actually their candidate, but is an independent just with their support, which just adds to bizzare confusion.
 
Camy89 said:
So with Trump calling Zelenskyy a dictator, how can they play an active role in the negotiating process when there’s a clear bias (not that that was ever going to be in doubt) towards Russia/Putin.

Can the UN, who have been utterly useless of late, weigh in? If not, what is their purpose?
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Trump is just blackmailing him for Ukraine's natural resources isn't he? The UN are literally useless but Europe is not (or at least should not be useless) and should be doing a lot more and a lot more aggressively.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Trump is just blackmailing him for Ukraine's natural resources isn't he? The UN are literally useless but Europe is not (or at least should not be useless) and should be doing a lot more and a lot more aggressively.
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I don't foresee any scenario where its accepted, the proposal is farcical and they know it is. Feels like a distraction or a means to a different end...
 
Simbo said:
I don't foresee any scenario where its accepted, the proposal is farcical and they know it is. Feels like a distraction or a means to a different end...
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Agreed, though I sadly think Ukraine might fold if the deal is continued US support in exchange for some deal around their natural resources. He's incredibly pro Exxon, Chevron etc. bet they are licking their chops at the prospect of another Iraq like scenario where they are still reaping the benefits now.
 
If I was the EU I'd call Trump on his bluff and put an alternative deal on the table. Just to see how far the bully will take it. The WH saying they are offended over Zelensky's comments about God emperor Donnie are farcical when you compare it to what he said about Zelensky.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Question should be NATO not UK on its own, I think that would be quite heavily supported. The UK randomly joining alone seems a bit mental, would help greatly but it would just ramp up the death rate without changing much short term in my opinion.
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Quite agree. I would certainly support the UK sending troops into Ukraine. But completely agree with the PM that it would have to be multiple national but not necessarily NATO and would have to have the US acting as the backstop.
 
Buster15 said:
Quite agree. I would certainly support the UK sending troops into Ukraine. But completely agree with the PM that it would have to be multiple national but not necessarily NATO and would have to have the US acting as the backstop.
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Would you still support it if your son/daughter would need to go to the trenches?
 
I realise that this may not be a popular thing to say. But I do believe that Putin is intellectually brighter than Trump.

He is definitely capable of putting together a long term plan and sticking to it.
First take over Crimea. That was a risk but it worked.

Next a Special Operation in Ukraine. Call it that incase it doesn't work.
All the time use the threat of nuclear weapons.
He banked on NATO and the west not directly countering him, while all the time planning for Trump. And it worked. Perfectly.

Whereas Trump simply doesn't have the patience for anything like that and just wants an instant result, even if it means giving Putin exactly what he wants and Ukraine can go and get fcuked.

Putin sets the agenda. Only Russia and US. Because he knows he will get a much better outcome than if Ukraine and Europe were involved. And that way, he immediately drives a huge wedge between the US and Europe. Thereby weakening NATO. And it worked. Perfectly.
 
4bars said:
Would you still support it if your son/daughter would need to go to the trenches?
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This point is kind of moot because if you join the armed forces it's what you signed up for - the non-null possibility of having to go to war.

Did I like the fact that I had to go rummaging through the Desert and Mountains for 4 years? Hell no, but I cannot complain because I knew what I signed up for.
 
4bars said:
Would you still support it if your son/daughter would need to go to the trenches?
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thankfully we don’t make decisions as a country based on personal relatability to the context.

It’s why we don’t have the family members of a jury deliberating on a sentence of the accused.

I would only support a draft for example in the absolute direst of circumstances, however serving forces should be deployed when needed, it’s literally what they have signed up to do.
 
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