Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

devilish said:
Our sovereignty will remain intact. What changes is a majority rule on most policies + we decide together which frigging military systems we should buy and we stick to. I doubt that the French will feel violated if they start using Leopard II tanks as their MBT while the Germans start using Rafales as fighter jets.
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Indeed. And I think it’s quite realistic to expect that
 
How do people in Europe feel about serving in armed forces?

Is that a barrier to Europe mobilizing effectively to stop a Russian invasion of, say, the Baltic nations?

I could easily see Traitor Trump refusing to help.
 
Europe need to put boots on the ground now before Trump and Putin divides ukraine up between them and gives every other crackpot the idea that they can do whatever they want
 
I think the fact Trumps Administration is currently pressuring Romania to allow the Russian plant Călin Georgescu to run probably speaks volumes as to either Trump or someone within his administration being a Russian plant.

His stance on Ukraine I can understand despite being genuinely evil but the above, is pushing pure Russian agenda with zero gain for his administration.
 
golden_blunder said:
Europe need to put boots on the ground now before Trump and Putin divides ukraine up between them and gives every other crackpot the idea that they can do whatever they want
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Whilst I don't condone this, if NATO did something I think Putin would buckle immediately. Trump is working the crowd and seeing who will pay him the most I guess.
 
Can Russia even afford to stop after Ukraine?

Big part of their economy relies on war now, reverting back will likely be problematic.
 
Morty_ said:
Can Russia even afford to stop after Ukraine?

Big part of their economy relies on war now, reverting back will likely be problematic.
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It is easier to revert now, than after another war or two. Because any time they stop, their economy will be wartime economy.
 
Morty_ said:
Can Russia even afford to stop after Ukraine?

Big part of their economy relies on war now, reverting back will likely be problematic.
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They can but they will want to make the most out of Trump’s term.

Then again there’s zero risk of US going back to anything other than MAGA for a long time.
 
B. Munich said:
Trump sees Russia as a super power? Then he is more delusional than I thought.
Russia's economic power doesn't even match Italy's economy.
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The British Empire had a smaller GDP than India, but still ruled over it for a few centuries. GDP is important, but not everything.

Like it or not, Russia is still a superpower, and easily, the third most important/strongest country in the planet.
 
devilish said:
Historically the French and the English had skinned one another for centuries. They were side by side in two World wars and will probably be side by side again if Russia invades. Historically Italy and Austria hated each other guts to the point that an Austrian military chief Conrad von Hötzendorf wanted to exploit the Earthquake of Messina to invade an Italy in ruins. They fought side by side in WW2. Historically Malta was tied to the hip to Italy for millennia with our elites still speaking Italian by the time Mussolini rose to power. The moment WW2 started we rallied with the British and the Italians thanked us by turning Malta in a target practice. Prior to that Italy was a fragmented nation filled with city states that hated one another + with factions that either sided with the church (Guelphs) or the emperor (Ghibellines). The situation was so dire that the factions fractured into mini factions and people like Dante Alighieri was exiled because his sub faction (white guelphs) lost out against the other sub faction (the black guelphs). Things change, situations change.

Military expenditure had reached a point that no small nation can afford to go solo. We had a similar shift with the rise of fire arms which in turn ended the power of powerful nobles and city states and paved the way to a centralized army. Alternatively we might let the US and Russia choose which parts they like and just take it. Bosnia will probably end up under the Russian sphere considering that Russia has a fetish for your neighbors
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Whole Western idea of ex-Yugoslav countries to the southeast of Slovenia and Croatia has always been to appease Serbia in hopes they will eventually cut ties with Russia and opt for Western sphere of influence. Peaceful Serbia - peaceful Balkan. Doesn't work, of course.

Half of Bosnia is basically Transnitria style, or something like Donetsk and Lugansk satelite republics pre Russian invasion. US and European diplomacy is actively working to install Serbian parastate in Kosovo too, effectively making it a disfunctional state just like Bosnia is, 30 years after the war. Russia is our enemy openly, without much hiding, but others aren't helping as much as they claim either. On the contrary.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't disagree. It all makes sense. But I am not sure people will adequately react, people who should.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Whole Western idea of ex-Yugoslav countries to the southeast of Slovenia and Croatia has always been to appease Serbia in hopes they will eventually cut ties with Russia and opt for Western sphere of influence. Peaceful Serbia - peaceful Balkan. Doesn't work, of course.

Half of Bosnia is basically Transnitria style, or something like Donetsk and Lugansk satelite republics pre Russian invasion. US and European diplomacy is actively working to install Serbian parastate in Kosovo too, effectively making it a disfunctional state just like Bosnia is, 30 years after the war. Russia is our enemy openly, without much hiding, but others aren't helping as much as they claim either. On the contrary.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't disagree. It all makes sense. But I am not sure people will adequately react, people who should.
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Absolutely true, and fecking insane.

'We do not want another Republika Srpska in Balkan' while sanctioning Kosovo cause the PM is not allowing another Republika Srpska there.

The UK has been the only great power who has not joined this madness, but being outside of the EU, means that their power is more limited than ever.
 
Revan said:
The British Empire had a smaller GDP than India, but still ruled over it for a few centuries. GDP is important, but not everything.

Like it or not, Russia is still a superpower, and easily, the third most important/strongest country in the planet.
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It is correct to say that Russia is still a superpower.
But the myth of the Red Army has been exposed.
 
golden_blunder said:
Europe need to put boots on the ground now before Trump and Putin divides ukraine up between them and gives every other crackpot the idea that they can do whatever they want
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Are you willing to? You can actually go as a volunteer to the ukranian army

Sending others to die and suffer ia very easy (that is putin and others have 0 problems).

I get what you are saying and im not against it, but we should be very careful when we ask people to die. Armies should be used aa deterrent and truly diplomatically menacing putin should work well enough. If all europe would agree, it should work IMO
 
4bars said:
Are you willing to? You can actually go as a volunteer to the ukranian army

Sending others to die and suffer ia very easy (that is putin and others have 0 problems).

I get what you are saying and im not against it, but we should be very careful when we ask people to die. Armies should be used aa deterrent and truly diplomatically menacing putin should work well enough. If all europe would agree, it should work IMO
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Obviously I know that it’s not that easy and requires sign off from all the countries it would affect. But the way I see it, Trump has changed the game. If Europe don’t do something him and Putin (not to mention China etc) can do what they like safe in the knowledge that there is no blowback. It’s Ukraine today but maybe in a few years when his army is recovered he turns his land grabbing towards European countries.

Anyway to answer your question, no I don’t volunteer. I couldn’t even if I wanted to due to my heart conditions. Secondly, I’ve already been shot before and didn’t care for it much.
 
golden_blunder said:
Obviously I know that it’s not that easy and requires sign off from all the countries it would affect. But the way I see it, Trump has changed the game. If Europe don’t do something him and Putin (not to mention China etc) can do what they like safe in the knowledge that there is no blowback. It’s Ukraine today but maybe in a few years when his army is recovered he turns his land grabbing towards European countries.

Anyway to answer your question, no I don’t volunteer. I couldn’t even if I wanted to due to my heart conditions. Secondly, I’ve already been shot before and didn’t care for it much.
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How you were shot if you can say?

I know that as much as i hate putin and the ukranian invasion, i would not risk my life for it and definitely i would not send my son.

Selfish? Absolutely
 
Revan said:
The British Empire had a smaller GDP than India, but still ruled over it for a few centuries. GDP is important, but not everything.

Like it or not, Russia is still a superpower, and easily, the third most important/strongest country in the planet.
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Russia is mostly a regional power at this point, they lost most of their power projection capabilities which are essential for an actual superpower. The US and China both have those in abundance.
 
VorZakone said:
For more on Trump's history with Russia (and Russians), see below sources.
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Best catalogue of it all that I know of is: https://trumpfile.org/ or https://trumpfile.org/folders/russia/ for the Russia specific stuff.

Contains everything, not just his Russia ties, and not just him. Epstein, Giuliani, Barr, etc and their links to Russia. I thought I knew about most of it but god damn, not even close aparrently. I'm currently trying to read up on Semion Mogilevich, who might just be the main man behind all this.
 
Just a bit of therapy. The 'Lebedev Institute of Precision Mechanics and Computer Engineering' apparently.
 
Simbo said:
Best catalogue of it all that I know of is: https://trumpfile.org/ or https://trumpfile.org/folders/russia/ for the Russia specific stuff.

Contains everything, not just his Russia ties, and not just him. Epstein, Giuliani, Barr, etc and their links to Russia. I thought I knew about most of it but god damn, not even close aparrently. I'm currently trying to read up on Semion Mogilevich, who might just be the main man behind all this.
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Any indications that Putin takes orders from Mogilevich?
 
africanspur said:
But people can't have this both ways?

Russia is simaltaneously a shit power, with an economy smaller than multiple individual nations of a bloc which is generally on the opposite side.

At the same time, we can't support Ukraine ourselves, we can't defend ourselves and need America to underwrite our and Ukraines security?

Which is it?
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It's a similar to 1939 Germany. Russia is committing 100% to the war and transformed it's economy into a war economy.
On the other hand European democracies have totally different agendas and plans. They see every Euro spend on military as wasted, at least this was the case until 2022 but in many countries, like Germany, this thinking still prevails. I admit that looking at all the issues we have I'm actually furious that we have to spend no billions over billions of Euro for military while the money should be spent in infrastructure, digitalization, education, climate change.
 
B. Munich said:
It's a similar to 1939 Germany. Russia is committing 100% to the war and transformed it's economy into a war economy.
On the other hand European democracies have totally different agendas and plans. They see every Euro spend on military as wasted, at least this was the case until 2022 but in many countries, like Germany, this thinking still prevails. I admit that looking at all the issues we have I'm actually furious that we have to spend no billions over billions of Euro for military while the money should be spent in infrastructure, digitalization, education, climate change.
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And to some degree I believe that's what this war is about. Climate change and the move to greener energy sources is not good for Russia who when sanctions are lifted, need to be selling their bountiful oil and gas reserves. Trump seems to subscribe to this position too, although what that means for Musk I don't know.
 
So according to Trump Zelenskiy is a dictator but his pal Putin, who might be a president till 2036 at least is not and is someone who should he talk to. Trump is just admiring Putin and its fascinating that he's just parroting all the Russian demands.. Russians say there wont be any agreement before the election in Ukraine and are dictating should Ukraine join EU or not, all that after occupying the 3rd of Ukraine and destroying it every day. And Trump is just repeating all that crazy stuff... Madness.
 
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Trump wants an election in Ukraine, but how do you hold an election when many Ukrainians are in prison camps or deployed to the front or are refugees? Churchill also did not hold elections during World War II. That did not make him a dictator.
 
Hester_manc said:
Trump wants an election in Ukraine, but how do you hold an election when many Ukrainians are in prison camps or deployed to the front or are refugees? Churchill also did not hold elections during World War II. That did not make him a dictator.
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He wants an election because Putin wants an election. And that would obviously be good for Putin.
 
Hester_manc said:
Trump wants an election in Ukraine, but how do you hold an election when many Ukrainians are in prison camps or deployed to the front or are refugees? Churchill also did not hold elections during World War II. That did not make him a dictator.
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Trump doesn't want an election. He wants talking points to give Putin more concessions.
 
Just straight up lie after lie. Bessent could come out in public and say that Zelensky did meet him. We know he won't though.

 
WPMUFC said:
Trump doesn't want an election. He wants talking points to give Putin more concessions.
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I'd agree, people by now really shouldn't be taking Trump's words at face value.

It's better to just question why he's said something. It's usually an attempt at manipulation (he wants to pressure Zelensky to sign), he's getting something in return, or he's just taken a dislike and is making personal attacks.

It's probably manipulation, he might be a dumb feck but he thinks he's a master negotiator.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Whole Western idea of ex-Yugoslav countries to the southeast of Slovenia and Croatia has always been to appease Serbia in hopes they will eventually cut ties with Russia and opt for Western sphere of influence. Peaceful Serbia - peaceful Balkan. Doesn't work, of course.

Half of Bosnia is basically Transnitria style, or something like Donetsk and Lugansk satelite republics pre Russian invasion. US and European diplomacy is actively working to install Serbian parastate in Kosovo too, effectively making it a disfunctional state just like Bosnia is, 30 years after the war. Russia is our enemy openly, without much hiding, but others aren't helping as much as they claim either. On the contrary.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't disagree. It all makes sense. But I am not sure people will adequately react, people who should.
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I am far from an expert of that part of world and I have loads of Serbians friends myself. However the level of entitlement and the arrogance they show towards the Balkans is unbelievable. Its almost like their nan left it to them as part of the inheritance and someone stole it from them.
 
B. Munich said:
It's a similar to 1939 Germany. Russia is committing 100% to the war and transformed it's economy into a war economy.
On the other hand European democracies have totally different agendas and plans. They see every Euro spend on military as wasted, at least this was the case until 2022 but in many countries, like Germany, this thinking still prevails. I admit that looking at all the issues we have I'm actually furious that we have to spend no billions over billions of Euro for military while the money should be spent in infrastructure, digitalization, education, climate change.
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Europe needs to understand that mutual benefit through global trade is not enough to ensure safety. Hence why the only way Europe can be prosperous is if we can defend ourselves without the need of anyone else
 
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