Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Buster15]

Because Trump wants to negotiate that his best buddy Putin gets to keep the land he has conquered then somehow take the credit if they stop fighting. Hopefully Zelensky tells them to feck off.

Exactly that.

 

[Buster15]

Because without US support Ukraine is fecked. If Trump says Ukraine needs to negotiate, thats it.

Just because the US is supporting Ukraine doesn't mean they have a right to decide on Ukraine behalf. Any decision on the future is 100% down to the people of Ukraine. Any by the way, the US is not the only country supporting Ukraine.

 

[Smores]

Just because the US is supporting Ukraine doesn't mean they have a right to decide on Ukraine behalf. Any decision on the future is 100% down to the people of Ukraine. Any by the way, the US is not the only country supporting Ukraine.

Ukraine will get the decision obviously but it'll be a choice between any US brokered peace deal or carrying on the war without US support. That isn't going to be much of a choice.

It's unlikely that others will step up, in fact they'll probably be strong armed by the US into pushing Ukraine into acceptance.

 

[4bars]

Just because the US is supporting Ukraine doesn't mean they have a right to decide on Ukraine behalf. Any decision on the future is 100% down to the people of Ukraine. Any by the way, the US is not the only country supporting Ukraine.

Sure, Ukraine can decide its fate and US has no saying in it, but US can decide to retire any support and Ukraine has no saying in it. Is a cards game and Ukraine will play with a reasonable set of cards with US and a shitty hand without the US.

In the end Ukraine will take its own decision between a proposed deal by the US and fight Russia alone (or with Europe). As long as the proposed deal is better than the other outcome, Ukraine will accept and will be the one deciding its fate. But obviously conditioned by US.

It is all nice and dandy to say that is 100% down to the people of Ukraine but reality is another

 

[Simbo]

I mean, of course both of them were practically off the table?

Did anyone realistically we'd get Crimea back?

Yes... Still do... Unless Russia receives some serious financial aide fast, they are f*cked, well and truly (sorry harms, hope you are preparing somewhat). When Ukraine takes its land back, it takes it all at once. No-one looking at the numbers thinks Russia will last another 2 years. The problem of course is that Trump cannot afford to lose his main ally, I'm just hoping its already too late.

I mean, it is the EXACT same position as the Biden administration:

Asked about his vision for peace in Ukraine after the end of the Russia-Ukraine war, Biden said: "Peace looks like making sure Russia never, never, never, never occupies Ukraine. That's what peace looks like. And it doesn't mean that they are part of NATO".

"It means we have a relationship with them like we do with other countries, where we supply weapons so they can defend themselves in the future. But [...] I am not prepared to support the NATOization of Ukraine", he added.

Not EXACTly the same I don't think. Biden's stance was one of pragmatism and one I suspect you might the logic with, even as a Ukrainian?

In an interview with CNN a year ago, Biden said it’s more important to keep NATO unified and that he has told Zelensky that a more realistic prospect would be for Ukraine to have a relationship with the U.S. akin to the support the U.S. provides Israel.

“Here's the deal,” Biden told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria. “I spent, as you know, a great deal of time trying to hold NATO together because I believe Putin has had an overwhelming objective … and that was to break NATO.”

“So holding NATO together is really critical. I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now, at this moment, in the middle of a war,” Biden said, noting it would require NATO to defend “every inch” of Ukraine’s territory.

“I've spoken with Zelensky at length about this, and one of the things I indicated is what the United States would be ready to provide while the process was going on and that it's going to take a while,” Biden said. “While that process was going on to provide security a la the security we provide for Israel, providing the weaponry and the needs, capacity to defend themselves if there is an agreement, if there is a ceasefire, if there is a peace agreement.”

Ukraine's ascension to NATO is inevitable, just not any time soon. For the time being the only security guarantees will be their own military strength, the support and funding of its allies (those that still have their sanity) and the continued destruction of Russia's ability to wage war, however long it takes.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Trump's solution, Russia wins and Ukraine loses.

 

[Simbo]

Just can't help himself can he. Regime change in Ukraine is evidently what he's been talking about with Putin. Well, aside from progress report on implementing Putin's blueprint in America.



For the record, Europe has contributed twice as much as the USA to Ukraine.

 

[Simbo]

"Ukraine will have to make a deal, they can't face the Russian army without US help".

The Russian army:


Zero chance Ukraine will be force into a deal, none. Equal chance Europe is letting this opportunity slip to end the threat of Putin's Russia once of for all, its in sight.

 

[The Firestarter]

"Ukraine will have to make a deal, they can't face the Russian army without US help".

The Russian army:


Zero chance Ukraine will be force into a deal, none. Equal chance Europe is letting this opportunity slip to end the threat of Putin's Russia once of for all, its in sight.

I think you are a little too optimistic there. Trump will start lifting the sanctions and even make some deals to help them. Hopefully Europe continues supplying UKR though, even ramps up. Increasing the production capacity would only be helpful in the long run.

 

[Simbo]

I think you are a little too optimistic there. Trump will start lifting the sanctions and even make some deals to help them. Hopefully Europe continues supplying UKR though, even ramps up. Increasing the production capacity would only be helpful in the long run.

That is the worry, if Trump finds a way to provide financial aid, but its not like removing sanctions will restore Russian trade to what it was, they will be a pariah state for decades.

I just hope its already too late for them. They've officially entered an economic state of "managed cooling" If my Kremlin translator is working correctly I think that means they be f*cked.

 

[Dargonk]

Not great news for Ukraine. Basically confirmation that the USA will look to strike a deal with Russia that suits, and likely benefits themselves, and then try to strong arm Ukraine into acceptance regardless of what it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the sanctions on Russia by the USA are lifted shortly as well, regardless of peace being achieved.

 

[WPMUFC]

Just can't help himself can he. Regime change in Ukraine is evidently what he's been talking about with Putin. Well, aside from progress report on implementing Putin's blueprint in America.



For the record, Europe has contributed twice as much as the USA to Ukraine.

I posted this in the Trump thread, but he's said it numerous times now. He is very much a believer in imperialism. He said that Russia being the larger more powerful state has an inherent right to territory and Ukraine fighting back was the real issue,

“First of all, he’s fighting a much bigger entity, okay, much bigger. When he was, you know, talking so brave... Zelensky was fighting a much bigger entity, much bigger, much more powerful. He shouldn’t have done that, because we could have made a deal, and it would have been a deal that would have been, it would have been a nothing deal,” Trump claimed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sky-ukraine-russia-sean-hannity-b2685565.html

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Just can't help himself can he. Regime change in Ukraine is evidently what he's been talking about with Putin. Well, aside from progress report on implementing Putin's blueprint in America.



For the record, Europe has contributed twice as much as the USA to Ukraine.

Source on this please

This states otherwise:

European Military aid to Ukraine has been very frustrating because there's just no strategic impetus or cohesion in what they're giving.

A battalions worth of French Light Tanks here, another battery worth of French SpGs there, German's send another battery worth of SPGs, a collection of 122mm, 120mm, 155mm, 152mm artillery from various countries, a mix of different ATGM's and anti air platforms etc etc etc.

How can you create an organic military structure with this kind of equipment? All with different supply chains, spare part trains, ammo types.

Europe needs to talk to each other and agree on a cohesive plan of how to actually arm Ukraine.